Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

[Roger Smith]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

Haha classic, so you want the Blackhawk not to be better plus better AA? Stupid. And yes, it would help the USMC if the BH was buffed up, because like it is now, it's impossible to get anywhere with it.

not better, working. and beefing the gun wouldnt help getting somewhere any more than now, jets (the only real threat to a good heli pilot) would still kill transports effortlessly. as ive said before, you either get armor or the gun, if a door gunner can kill instantly, then so should the rpg to the heli. same goes for a jet comming down on aa, it should be fair. why? because as is, its rock beats paper, and sizors beats both. in a head on, one on one fight, air attack should beat armor, armor should beat infantry, and aa(infantry) should beat air. why? because thats balance between ground and air. now sit down and take a nap before you hurt yourself thinking too hard.

[Turnip]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

not better, working. and beefing the gun wouldnt help getting somewhere any more than now, jets (the only real threat to a good heli pilot) would still kill transports effortlessly. as ive said before, you either get armor or the gun, if a door gunner can kill instantly, then so should the rpg to the heli. same goes for a jet comming down on aa, it should be fair. why? because as is, its rock beats paper, and sizors beats both. in a head on, one on one fight, air attack should beat armor, armor should beat infantry, and aa(infantry) should beat air. why? because thats balance between ground and air. now sit down and take a nap before you hurt yourself thinking too hard.

I agree except I think the balance cant really work like this, I mean infantry can still take out tanks and other ground units so the rock paper scissors part is a bit skewed. I think it should be reliant on the better player most times, but since the AA is auto tracking and skill is not really a factor I believe the jet should have to evade all AA sites until he sees that they are cleared.

In other words the only way to balance it is to give the advantage to that static AA, thereby putting the onus on planes to figure ways of getting around the thing since AA doesnt have that ability.

In 1.2 it was like this for helicopter, they had to stay low to the ground and make sure they took AA out before moving in. It would be the same for jets except they cant stay low to the ground so it becomes harder for jets than it is for helicopter, however when they succeed the damage jets cause is much greater than choppers. Anyways this system does however make it so only good pilots even stand a chance at flying and I dont think thats what EA wants.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

I mean infantry can still take out tanks and other ground units so the rock paper scissors part is a bit skewed.[/quote]lets put it this way, one tank round/mg burst will do in an infantry, one pass in a jet can take out armor, and when it gets to jets and aa, its an instant of cannon takes out aa that a, never has the element of surprise, and b, wont likely kill the jet in two hits, which rarley work in the first place, jets have a huge range in which they can see the enemy aa target and the aa target cant even lock on.

I think it should be reliant on the better player most times, but since the AA is auto tracking and skill is not really a factor

it would be if you had to aim ahead.

In other words the only way to balance it is to give the advantage to that static AA, thereby putting the onus on planes to figure ways of getting around the thing since AA doesnt have that ability.

exactly, thats what i was trying to say.

It would be the same for jets except they cant stay low to the ground

this isnt true as far as static aa is concerned, jets can hug the earth to evade aa, and they can always fly high aswell.

Anyways this system does however make it so only good pilots even stand a chance at flying and I dont think thats what EA wants.

acording to colin, this is what he wants in 2142, so its crazy to think he wouldnt want it in bf2 aswell.

[EliteRazgriz666]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

All EA had to do was nerf the repairing speed(which they did) on a BH...that alone can decrease the power greatly and Turnip even when BH was a god on this game, I took it outta the skies plenty of times while sittin in a IGLA :)

[Dandred]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

All EA had to do was nerf the repairing speed(which they did) on a BH...that alone can decrease the power greatly and Turnip even when BH was a god on this game, I took it outta the skies plenty of times while sittin in a IGLA :)

I think you missed the bit about giving the other choppers better guns

[Digital-Boy]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

I don't want the old miniguns back, but as it stands the kord MGs and the M134 are almost useless, and I think that's a problem. It's just plain hard to hit anything with the skycow's machine guns. I think a higher rate of fire and less travel time would make it a bit more feasible. The M134 bullets still seem to have a very wide deviation. This was actually an asset back when the miniguns had insane splash damage, but there's no longer any point in having such a large bullet cone for the miniguns. As such, the deviation for the minigun needs to be reduced to a much smaller cone, so that when you aim the M134 at something, the bullets are going in that general direction and not veering off at a 30 degree angle.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

Amen!

[Vintageologist]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

not better, working. and beefing the gun wouldnt help getting somewhere any more than now, jets (the only real threat to a good heli pilot) would still kill transports effortlessly. as ive said before, you either get armor or the gun, if a door gunner can kill instantly, then so should the rpg to the heli. same goes for a jet comming down on aa, it should be fair. why? because as is, its rock beats paper, and sizors beats both. in a head on, one on one fight, air attack should beat armor, armor should beat infantry, and aa(infantry) should beat air. why? because thats balance between ground and air. now sit down and take a nap before you hurt yourself thinking too hard.

Wtf? You do see that there are a) more gound units than transport choppers and b) choppers have nowhere to hide, yes? And you also forget that this is about military (at least that was how it was advertised) not stones, scissors and paper...
Ah yes and jets being the only real thread to choppers... what a BS... there are maps with choppers but without jets... hmmmmm....hmmmmmmmmmmm

I think you missed the bit about giving the other choppers better guns

For what? Do they need to land anywhere? No! But the USMC often has to attack, so we need a helo that can provide cover fire to attacking troops.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

a) more gound units than transport choppers and

your point being?

b) choppers have nowhere to hide, yes?

hug the terrian, or go really high.

And you also forget that this is about military (at least that was how it was advertised) not stones, scissors and paper...

rock, paper, scissors is basically a term for balanced combine arms games. it means if armor gives infantry a problem, an air gives armor a problem, infantry should give air a problem.

Ah yes and jets being the only real threat to choppers... what a BS... there are maps with choppers but without jets

and good heli pilots survive fine on those maps. name one map where transport helis have a problem getting somewhere that they couldnt avoid with better flying tactics?

ps im not against more accurate and deadly miniguns, im against them slaughtering even when blindfolded.

[Dandred]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

For what? Do they need to land anywhere? No! But the USMC often has to attack, so we need a helo that can provide cover fire to attacking troops.

What about Songhua Stalemate?

I think you are being very naive, what about after the flags have been taken?

All sides shoud have choppers that counter each other, do you want the BH back just to get points? Or would you like to see a game that is balanced?

[Ewizard09]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

They need grenade, missile or rocket launchers. They also need to be equal the mec and chines guns suck commpared to the U.S. miniguns.

[zipp0r]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

well we get some armour back in 1.4, but we are still stuck with UTTERLY USELESS GUNS on all the choppers

[Turnip]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

They should have buffed the guns and lowered the armor, made it so 1 at rocket downs the thing but it rapes infantry like 1.12. But it is a transport chopper afterall..

[Toxitron]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

Well by now they have already made them stronger but left the rest

[Vintageologist]

Re: Beefing up Transport Choppers on all sides?

your point being?

Well... a single soldier is weak, an army of soldiers can be very strong, THAT is my point.

hug the terrian, or go really high.

Hug the terrain = If an enemy sees you, he can hit you easily. It's not like in r/l where you do that to avoid radar X-D
Go really high = your gunners can't hit **** because they don't even see the targets (which are for the BH mainly infantry units)

rock, paper, scissors is basically a term for balanced combine arms games. it means if armor gives infantry a problem, an air gives armor a problem, infantry should give air a problem.

O rly? I know what the term is, but it just doesn't work like that in modern combat. Sorry, that wouldn't justify the price for planes... would it?

and good heli pilots survive fine on those maps. name one map where transport helis have a problem getting somewhere that they couldnt avoid with better flying tactics?

Wake, Gulf: If they make it to land without being shot down by planes or helicopters, there are many many funny little people shooting at them with all kinds of guns... and we all know we can't shoot back... great.
Mashtur City: Fly from one end to the other without being shot AND drop your troops so they don't instantly die. (Remember, the MEC held points are mainly open terrain)

Those are already 3. And we're talking non-n00b enemy teams here.

ps im not against more accurate and deadly miniguns, im against them slaughtering even when blindfolded.

So where did I ever said that you should be able to spray blindfolded? I always wanted guns that hit the **** you are aiming at but do severe damage there, so people can't just stand in direct line to the gunner and shoot at him with their pistol... and you know that so why are you always trying to fight my arguments?

What about Songhua Stalemate?

I think you are being very naive, what about after the flags have been taken?

All sides shoud have choppers that counter each other, do you want the BH back just to get points? Or would you like to see a game that is balanced?

It's funny. Do you know what they said about the F35 and J10 issue? They can't just make the two equal so easy because the F35 has another role than the J10. Same about the Blackhawk. It's different. The others might be fine with more armor most of the time, but the Blackhawk needs to defend itself... of course another obvious part is that they infact are different beasts in RL. Because the Hip is usually guarded by Hinds while the BH flies alone...
The thing with the points is my favourite. I love it when people say that because it's so ridiculous.
The reason I wanted this game is because you'd have the full spectrum of modern warfare. That's what it was advertised with and that was basically how it was like in early versions.
Then, some kids who formerly played CS came and didn't understand there are things stronger than infantry (helicopters, planes, APCs etc...) and so they weren't as '1337' as they were in CS with their M4 or AK. That made them cry :cry:. But instead of telling their mum or becoming Emo, they decided to whine to DICE. And wow! It worked! DICE was so concentrated on nerfing all the vehicles so they'd totally forget to fix bugs or take out exploits like the bunny hopping or dolphin diving which do not fit into the description/flair of the game. Hey but who cares as long as you can now run blindlessly over open field without the danger of being picked on from above and the great freedom you have standing behind chain link fence while an APC is looking at you but unable to shoot trhough with the 25mm canon. Isn't that cool? And it's so much more fun than CS because now everyone can see your 1337 stats!

You kind of sound the same with the CS rushing tactics, I mean of course if you go right above the AA or try to cruise anywhere but the next flag you are going to die. I use the blackhawk to get around all the time if there isnt jets bombing the carrier, trick is to stay low to the ground and use your flares to dodge any AA that get a lucky lock. Anyways the reason its like this I think is because the blackhawk is a lot faster than a boat or any other transport since it can go over obstacles, so you need to use that ability to your advantage for defence as well.

How am I using CS rushing tactics when I'm just asking for better guns? There will be a moment eventually where the enemy sees you. And then you'll have to fight back. It's not like cruising carelessly around but you know not everyone plays on an empty 64 player server X-D