Macros, yay or nay.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

it's funny how many people's decisions about macros cheating/not cheating is soley based on an "unfair advantage" arguement espically since the hardware is available for anyone to purchase.

So, I could easily construct the same arguement about 3 year old technology vs bleeding edge as I will do below.

A person running a 20 ping with 100+FPS rate against a dinosaur PC with a 20FPS has a clear advantage. Anyone want to call the bleeding edge user a cheater?

The G5, Razor and a few other mouse options out there have more keys. If I have more keys on my mouse I have an unfair advantage. Want to call that person a cheater?

If I live close to the server and I have a 60ms difference in latenc. That's an advantage as well.

My point. The hardware technology is here. Use it or not - it's not cheating. The G15 board does NOT hack the BF2 files.

I have the G15 - it's a great board but because the reach is pretty far from the WASD keys it's really more of a pain to run a macro since I have to move my hand off the primary movement keys in order to run a macro.

j

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I guess the conclusion of this thread can be that some concider macro's cheating and some do not...

The ones that feel they are cheats are frustrated about people using them and the ones using them are happy...

Also, it seems there are just a few people that realize that someone like solo chopper pilots who never seem to miss a tv missile, don't always use macro's, but may just be clever in their keysetup...
Beeing able to press 10 times a second for guiding tv missile, beeing an example of a clever keysetup...

I am pretty sure, that if I were to explain my keysetup here, some will concider it like cheating, couse they don't have the time or knowledge to adjust their own...

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.

I understand the frustration of clearly seeing a situation, only to be disappointed time and time again by supposedly intelligent people who refuse to accept things for what they are: it's true, you can't reason with everyone... and for that, I empathize with you as I've tried to do this far too often in the past. Your posts are well thought out and I enjoy reading them, but I fear that you'll eventually burn out like I did (repeated frustration at being misunderstood on forums), so take it easy and most of all, don't take them too seriously.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

It depends on how you think of it. Sure some may consider it cheating because you have an "Unfair" advantage. But all the things that macros do can be done with your hands. If you just train your hands (like me) to do things like prone crouch jump or F2 F1 for chopper then it isn't all that hard. If people want to spend an extra 50 dollers on a keyboard which gives them an advantage let them, because in the end i'll pwn them anyday.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I jsut find it funny that the people who say they care the least about their stats are the ones that tend to whine if someone else is "cheating" to boost their stats...Ironic dont ya think????

I can't believe this place **** out the Biznitch word....R u serisous??? that's being worse than the FCC....

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

If you are going to use macros, why not just have the computer control ALL of your movements and all you will have to do is aim? Because if you want macros it will get to that point eventually.

What is the difference between a macro and a computer program controlling your player?

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I have a nostromo, I could do macro but it is cheating.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Stats have an effect I'm sure but most people seem to cheat to either enrage or impress other players (i'd say to be impressive is more common motive for cheaters). Counterstrike Source has no stat recording, yet cheaters are like the plague in that FPS.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Actually, you can bind multiple functions to 1 key, by editing the controls.con manually... Like binding jump, parashute, position 1 in vehicle and inside view, to the Spacebar...
Something few people seem to be interested in...

Their loss...

yeah, i too find it strange that most people dont go, and mess around with game files, and edit things... i mean, what a crazy world we are living in. This is an outrage.!!!
PEOPLE OF THE WORLD......UNITE, AND EDIT YOUR .CON, .NET, .UTX and ANY OTHER FILE IN THE GAMES FOLDER...........STAND UP AND EDIT!

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

The problem is the stats and the incentive it provides to cheat.

All the kids want the status they can brag about on their school playgrounds at recess and they'll do anything to get it.

"Hey, did you hear Jimmy Tucker has got 2 million points and is now a General??"

"ooooooooooooooo!!!"

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.

I'm anything but frustrated with these forums, and especially Battlefield 2. In fact the only reason I post is I enjoy a good debate on these forums. I could imagine myself being frustrated if I was constantly getting killed by prone spammers and TV missile macros, but I'm not. That doesn't mean I don't see them, because I do. But in the end my for me at least my superior skill as an experienced gamer is enough to overcome a lesser player with a full suite of macros. I feel badly for the individuals who aren't as skilled as I am (to put it bluntly) and are cheat free, but continue to encounter macroers and are beaten as a result of those other players cheating. I could certainly understand frustration that would arise from such an unfair situation, similar to a J-10 pilot teeing off in an unfortunate and helpless F-35B pilot.

Any frustration I may personally display is a result of having to explain the same basic concepts of fair play on these forums over and over only to have them misunderstood or completely disregarded by certain individuals. You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.

Hmm, interesting concept... macroer cheaters are just people who couldn't handle the risk associated with aimbot cheating. Same motives, different methods.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Well, I have followed you in various forums, including Planet battlefield, and I remember you for your well formulated and thoughtful posts - often in the face of unsubstantiated flames. One thing that stood out was the fact you always used a cool and calm counterargument, usually one based on the norm of the game.

Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.

I'm off to a business conference till Friday. I will leave the last comment in this argument to you. As always, it is a pleasure to interact with you on the forum.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."

No you're wrong. The very reason I am so opposed to macros is that it negatively impacts my personal enjoyment of the game when I encounter them. For example, I face off with another helicopter gunner. We both fire TV missiles. I miss, he hits. Only problem with the situation is he was using a macro which handed the victory to him. How would you feel about that? Because I know I'd feel like I just got a raw deal, and that player should've been banned from playing a long time ago.

Again, it's not fun to be unfairly killed, and it's not fun to being playing in a legitimate fashion, encounter a macro prone spammer and then getting killed as a result of it. The whole opposition to macros exists because it adversly effects the gaming experience of others by unevening the playing field and giving an unfair advantage to others.

Of course you can ruin someones time simply by being a better player and dominating on them (I happen to enjoy it, because I enjoy the challenge that comes with being legitimately beaten), but the difference between that an encountering a macroer is it was purely that players superior abilities that awarded him that victory, and not some chunk of code flawlessly performing some otherwise difficult maneuever in the game.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

. Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.

I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

What it boils down to is the intent of the user and the spirit of the game. If you have a 55 year gamer whose reflexes aren't nearly as sharp as they were 30 years earlier, and that gamer wishes to ease the burdensome series of keystrokes, then so be it and more power to him. I hardly condemn such a player as a "cheat". And plenty of people who play this game have real lives that don't allow 2-6 hours a day to be wasted on a game to become proficient in skills that (when the day is over) mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world. Macros provide an alternative to many players who cannot afford the hardware to enhance the game and give them an equal edge, or who do not enjoy an ergonomic setup, or who may suffer physical ailments or disabilities that prevent them from ever achieving a level of prowess on the keyboard that so many teenagers and other high-and-mighty self righteous uber gamemasters enjoy routinely - then hold against the rest of the virtual gaming world.

You're right, it all boils down to the intent of the player.. and the intent of a player creating and using macros is to gain an advantage over other players to artificially inflate said users score.

"Boohoo! Oh woe is me, I cannot prone hope like a teenager anymore, damn you arthritis! I must use macros!"

Your justification for using macros is lame. If I were to apply that same logic to something like oh say.. the Olympics, it'd be perfectly legitimate for me to use steroid because I can't run as fast as the best sprinter because I didn't practice as much or my legs were shorter. The same comparison can be made with just about every competitive activity and sport known to humanity.

Just like every other lame justification in this thread none of that is an excuse to cheat. The most important reasons for that are the following: You do not have to prone spam to be effective in infantry combat (take it from me, while I can do it I do much better without it). You do not have to have a robot clicking the mouse wheel a thousand times a second to properly guide TV missiles. You can play the game just fine without macros, and if you've got a physical or mental limitation that prevents you from doing that as well as other individuals, too freaking bad. Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.

And again getting a computer than runs Battlefield 2 with silky smooth frames on low graphics is only a couple hundreds bucks, and in fact you can't get computer components nowadays that can't do that because they don't even manufacture them anymore! So again the hardware comparison is invalid. Other hardware that's a little close to macros, for example a joystick might be a more comfortable way to fly a plane for some, but I know many people who swear by a keyboard/mouse control scheme for a plane. But in the end, I refuse to believe someone who enjoys flying planes cannot scrape together 20 dollars for a Logitech 3d Pro. Hell it doesn't even have to be new, you could probably get a second hand stick for less than ten bucks.

In the end it's all just cheating, and trying to justify it for ANY reason whatsoever is completely unacceptable, and if you want to talk about the "spirit" of gaming and Battlefield 2 in general nothing goes more against that spirit of fair and fun competition than cheating. It's so logical I don't see how anybody could dispute what I've just said.