Macros, yay or nay.

[disfigured]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

The joystick comparison is an inaccurate analogy.

A joystick no matter how sophisticated doesn't allow you to execute complex key strokes with a 0% chance of failure. That is the difference. You may feel as a player that you can do it , but it's not possible to do it. You'll make a mistake, you'll hesitate between strokes, become distracted. You'll make these mistakes less and less as you get better but you'll still make them occasionally. With a macro that "human" element of imperfection is eliminated, and makes for a less interesting gaming expereince for everyone.

It also dosen't allow you to access more keys. Although some joysticks with more buttons then others are an advantage, they are not an unfair advantage. Because you can always use a standard keyboard has as many keys (if not more) within reach then most joysticks, even the most accesable ones. It's a differnt "layout".

Which relates to my next point, reachablility, if that's even a word .

The only macros that can be replicated "by hand", are the ones that have keys that can be readily reached while playing. As soon as you create a macro that skips around the expanse of a keyboard that during normal game play you couldn't possibly be able to replicate by hand, you've created something the human hand can't do.

You may be able to stare down at the keyboard and replicate it with two hands, but during game play it would be impossible. That's an "unfair advantage" created by an outside source. Because it's not software and is hardwired into the keyboard itself, is only splitting hairs.

I can't see allowing anything like this leading to anything but a worse gaming expereince all around. What's next (as was mentioned by me and another poster)? Entire macros for the beginning of rounds? Enter plane, take off, fly 1/4 mile in direction X, bomb carrier , rinse and repeat?

Because that's what will happen as you put technology in the hands of humans. It will only expand, become more sophisticated, and eventually be a standard everyone has to use. That's fine for most technologies, nailguns, autocad, but for gaming it doesn't make any sense. Would you like to see two great chess masters with computers behind them, and have them consult them for every move? It's the same thing. Who ever can afford the best most sophisticated computer win the chess tournement? While you might think gaming Vcards and Proccessors are similar to this they are not, If two players had to play a virtual game across the world from each other, the quality of the display created by the computers would not give either an advantage. I'll elaborate further.........

The Vcard and proccessor analogy is also inaccurate.

Frame rate is frame rate. If your playing at a 60 frame/second rate at 800x600, your not at any of a disadvantage to someone playing at the same frame rate at 1600x1200.

If you want eyecandy and sacrifice frame rate to do so, then your just giving yourself a disadvantage, and it can be easily corrected by adjusting your grahpics.

As much as some people don't like clans, and tournements you can useally look to them for what is considered a cheat, "unfair advantage", or something that violates the spirit of the ROE. Macros are not allowed in the leagues. That says a lot because they strive for a fair and even playing feild.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Its not the same concept as joystick. A joystick makes it easier to control a jet within the limits. Youre still doing everything by yourself.

A macro lets you "skip" key presses in order to execute multiple functions with one keypress. Someone can be anal about it and compare it to aimbotting, where "mouse move" function is being skipped .

I dont deal in absolutes in this case. I believe certain macros make the game a little more interesting for yourself. Like, creating a macro that would throw a grenade and swith to primary, same with medic bags. Its my intrepretion only though.

I cant accept the TV macro, or the mentioned LGM macro, and of course the jumper macro as being legit.

How I sort it myself would be-

Any macro that allows you to engage an enemy directly easier, is not acceptable.
Any macro that rises your life expectancy on the field, is not acceptable.

Macro that allows you to perform certain functions more comfortably, while not directly affecting OpFor players, is acceptable.

By using artificial aids you're crippling yourself, just like the macro users, but if it makes you feel better...

´

"Figure out..."

Ive figured out how exactly the bombs drop and how to aim the HUD. I hardly call that an artificial aid, rather than just... aid. Its best to be used by new pilots, who dont exactly know how the thing works. The next step would be to take off those lines as soon as you feel you dont need them. However, I like them, they create a little more of that battlefield immersion.

You see, you are used to dropping bombs at the right time at the right angle. I however do that visually, and thats more sattisfying.

Besides, you cant cripple your skills with 3 lines, if you are good enough to use them effectively.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I can attack any target, at any angle, at any speed, just give me enough time to line myself up and its down. Im not talking about a long stead approach.

So can I... Toss bombing, single drops, different ripple distances, high level dive bombing, shallow dive bombing, level bombing, with one crosshair and a bomb fall line. Basically those lines you've drawn are in my head.
Although unless in a bomber, I don't go back and rearm bombs very often, cannons are good enough to get serious kills with. I tend to save bombs for tanks. :)

By using artificial aids you're crippling yourself, just like the macro users, but if it makes you feel better...

[Chodda]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

lol you say "yay" or "nay" and then in your options you dont even include them, just put "yay" or "nay" as the choices. I don't think its cheating... its the same concept of a joystick... to make things "easier" for the player. It's not a hack or exploit because the games ALLOWS the use of it. The developers designed to game so joysticks and such would be compatible with it. Sure its not a cheat... but is dumb.. and so I say nay. The use of a macro shows no skill what so ever. I give props to the "noob" who does the tv missile like its supposed to be done, and I spit in the face of the macro user with 1291932131939 points

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Wtf? Chris, you put lines on your monitor to aid dropping bombs? Just press f9 for hud view, it's got everything you need to hit targets. I think you're taking the piss...
Macros are scummy, but putting tape on your monitor is hilarious. :)

Indeed I do. I use black marker to set additional HUD lines on screen. You see, I dont use the "standard" divebombing mode as most pilots do, and think they are good. I can attack any target, at any angle, at any speed, just give me enough time to line myself up and its down. Im not talking about a long stead approach.

I love "visually" aiming the targets, and release the bombs once the target is at the appropriate "zone". 3 lines is enough, but they help me to drop bombs horizontally, with an angle, you name it, I can do it.

I hardly think one line is "enough". And I never liked to use the "force" to drop my bombs.

Its hilarious for some, it creates elements of immersion, and is necessary for others.

The funny thing is, you tell me to use F9 key. Its like telling a genuine planewhore how to switch from missiles to bombs :P.

EDIT: This is how it looks like

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v636/Member_of_STARS/?action=view&current=Save.jpg&refPage=80&imgAnch=imgAnch87

Im lucky, Im practically the sole user of my PC, so whatever I do with it, is just my own business :P .

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Im one of those "idiots". I dont really use them for iron sights, but I do use lines as additional HUD angle and target markers. Call me an idiot here, but I do feel moe enjoyement out a game where I can visually start dropping bombs, instead of relying on the "force".

I think youre being unfair here.

Wtf? Chris, you put lines on your monitor to aid dropping bombs? Just press f9 for hud view, it's got everything you need to hit targets. I think you're taking the piss...
Macros are scummy, but putting tape on your monitor is hilarious. :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Some games have no crosshair when you're not looking down the sights, so some idiots actually put tape on their monitors where the crosshair should be.

Im one of those "idiots". I dont really use them for iron sights, but I do use lines as additional HUD angle and target markers. Call me an idiot here, but I do feel moe enjoyement out a game where I can visually start dropping bombs, instead of relying on the "force".

I think youre being unfair here.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

People who don't use macros think it are super-cheat-machine-robot-things. You can't do that many with them come on everyone can Dolphin Dive/Bunnyhop macro's aren't needed for that so!

My conclusion macros are not cheating as long as they don't give any advantage.

~KOmet

If it didn't give people an avantage they wouldn't use them would they.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I think everyone knows they're mainly used to exploit, but many will deny this simply to continue using them, as the advantage is too good to just leave behind. Then again, I might be giving people too much credit...

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I feel that macro's are fine under some restrictions.

If the actions could be performed normally during gameplay, then the macro is alright.

Example: switch to medic bag, toss one bag, switch to primary weapon
Example: switch to grenade, toss one grenade, switch to primary weapon

If the actions could NOT be normally performed during normal gameplay, then the macro is NOT alright.

Example: Repeated actions by holding down a key.
Example: Key combinations which can NOT be done.

Thats just my .02

So holding down W, S and D at the same time (which can't be done on many normal keyboards) is a cheat?

Similarily, how is it less of an exploit if you make a macro to do something in less than 1/10th of a second what would take even the fastest legit player at least 5 times that to do?

You need to define it differently, macros for radio commands (ie. Spotting an enemy, or telling people to get in to a chopper) are justified as they don't give you an unfair combat advantage. Macros like the Jump - Prone - Aim - Shoot bind do however, as it is impossible to replicate that if you press all the required buttons yourself.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Sorry, but your entire argument is based on comparisons between two different subjects, i.e., apples and oranges.

We are talking about something that directly affects and artificially accelerates the behavior of objects in the game itself, not things that affect the appearance or improve your comfort.

Okay, here's an example. We both enter a Nintendo contest. You have a regular controller and I have one that has a module attached to it that turns my fire button into a machinegun so that I can just walk through each round. Is that fair?

Or another one. We both enter a car race. We are both given identical cars. Yours has a nice leather seats and steering wheel, power windows and lighted gauges, but I slap a supercharger on mine before the race. Is that fair? Did your comfort matter?

If all the kids who use these macros and other cheats to get their artificial strokes would all just go play with themselves, we could all have a better time.

snip

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

nostromo 52 yay

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

It all comes down to being a fair person.

I'm willing to bet that if we take every person that posted in this thread and had a group brainstorming session on how to find a way to artificially increase our advantage in the game with an external source (no hacking software), we'd come up with lists upon lists of this stuff.

I've never used a macro, but fail to see the connection with cheating or hacking. Frankly I guess by this analogy, I am a "hack" for using a joystick to fly. Since others use the keyboard to fly, I have an external source providing me an advantage. Have you ever tried to initiate a barrel roll while looking behind you and talking on teamspeak at the same time - using a keyboard?

So now that we can establish joystick users are "hacks", let's look for other non-software "hacks". Take, for example, every person who pays for a superior internet connnection - like a T1 connection over DSL. They have a distinct hardware advantage and are surely "hacks". And what about everyone who uses the fastest video cards coupled with larger monitors - able to use wider views with liquid smooth frame rates: "hacks" all the way right? They must be, since they can see more than the average gamer - and it's all because of an expensive hardware advantage.

Do you host your own server? Welcome to the "hack" club because your lower ping is directly related to your hardware and gives you an unfair advantage over the rest of the gaming public. Do you use a backlit keyboard while playing at night? See me at the next "hackers"-anonymous meeting since you can more readily see your keys than other less fortunate gamers on the same server. Do you sit in a comfortable chair, use glasses to clear up your vision, wear headphones for better sound comprehension, use lots of RAM to speed up your computer? Sorry, you're all hackers.

So how do all the "hacks" with guilty conscience repent? Here's what to do: Be sure only to play your BF2 on a Pentium 90 or less, with a 32 MB video card, no more than 128 MB of Ram, use only a mechanical ball mouse with an industrial clicker keyboard, a 14" CRT VGA monitor at 640x480 resolution running on 256 color mode, and ALWAYS on an AOL dial-up connection while sitting on an old picnic bench in front of an old recycled school student desk holding your gaming rig. Then once you've cleansed yourself of all hardware advantages, come back on this forum and beg for the forgiveness of all the professional BF2 players that elighten us all, and who've spent so much of their valuable time enriching our community at great personal expense.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I dont see a need to go and buy a g15. i use a laptop and strewth, being a 2nd year means i got no money to waste! i think that those people who are going out and getting things like keyboards and mice specifically for this game are beginning to take things just a lil bit too seriously.. it is after all a game.

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

It all comes down to being a fair person.

I'm willing to bet that if we take every person that posted in this thread and had a group brainstorming session on how to find a way to artificially increase our advantage in the game with an external source (no hacking software), we'd come up with lists upon lists of this stuff.

Some games have no crosshair when you're not looking down the sights, so some idiots actually put tape on their monitors where the crosshair should be.

The question that should be asked is: what's the fun in a playing a game with macros?

Why not just create a macro for the entire round? Move forward for 15 seconds, make a left, make a right, shoot, move forward, etc. Then you can go downstairs and watch spongebob squarepants while the game plays itself! How exciting!

In my opinion, it's all about fun and if someone wants to waste their time trying to win by using all these tools (hacks) then go ahead. They still won't escape my bullet no matter how many macros they have :)

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that I think alot of this stuff also depends on the developers of the game. These macros really won't work in Americas Army because the movements are realistic and slower. It would be easier just to press the buttons.