Shielding CS:S

[acc_int]

Please, people. No flaming... it's turning into a war zone now...



I suggest it should be like the shield back in 1.6 Beta.... you can shoot through it. Fun. :)

[Dr.Pimper]

i dont care how strong the steel of the shield is, an awp would shoot through it. Cliff make it so larger guns can go through and i'll be happy



in cs_assault you can shoot through the steel doors to the hostage room... lets hope the physics in cs:s are a little more realistic

[Exploding-Man]

Yes, you can add something bad to gameplay. But you shouldn't whine about something that adds a slight challenge.

[Thortok2000]

Wudge wrote.. #543

CS pioneers the programing world, it is THE game on the forefront of it and a big wish to make it more spectator friendly has come through.

Programming? No. Esports? Yup.

The shield counter-acts this on defusal maps. It slows rushes, on Aztec is overly dangerous when teamed up wtih AWPers as well. A rush can't get in there because not only do they get AWPed but if they get close they have to somehow deal with the shielder, M4ers AND AWPers.

Again, this is a balance issue. I've long since suggested that CT's not have awps anymore as the awp + shield combo is a little too strong. It's a cheese sandwich. The problem is that CT's have an extra awp counter whereas T's don't.



In a scrim, though, there's only 5 people which means that with one awper and one shielder at each choke point (if there's no more than 2 choke points on that map), that leaves only one M4. Team and take out the M4 first (flashes and smokes could help), assign one guy to kill the shielder if he unshields, and the rest go for the awp with the rest of your flashes and smokes. That's assuming you encounter all three weapons at one time. Taking out an awper and shielder without an M4 is easier, keep the shielder between you and the awper while you take pot shots at the awper, use nades, etc.

It unbalances public play where nothing more complicated than a simple rush can be organised most of the time and in clan play its quite bad as they have organised shield tactics which is nastier.

Shielders do not work alone. For example, one prime method of 'rush stopping' when I shield on de_dust is to run right into the tunnel, lock my shield in place, and stand there. They could either be stupid, and hold up, throw nades, wait and see if they can kill me, or whatever. My teammates (since this is a pub) aren't really helping. So by just standing there and LOOKING imposing, I've completely halted their rush, for the time being.



If instead two of them run up on either side of me and headshot me with an AK without even stopping, that just proves how much backup I didn't have and doesn't slow the rush one iota.



Shielders without cooperative teamwork by their team (and you already admitted that pubs don't cooperate well) die easily. For this exact reason, shields on pubs usually don't matter unless the CT's do cooperate and the T's don't. Then again, on pubs, if one team cooperates and the other doesn't, the team with teamwork should win regardless of weapons.

And in reply to how apparently you disqualified all my points, I said if you don't remove it then balance it. I presented two alternatives, remove it or hostage map only with fixed hitboxes. My points aren't disqualified at all.

Fixed hitboxes and hostage map only? That isn't 'balancing' it. That's fixing it, hence the word 'fixed'. As far as hostage maps 'only', you still haven't proved why DE maps shouldn't have it, why AS maps shouldn't have it, or why ES maps shouldn't have it.

The shield in itself adds little and can detract a lot. It is hardly tactical in a pub server, the guy is out for himself and in a clan war it can be damn nasty and very hard to deal with when you are in the middle of a rush and suddenly come up against a threat that takes time to deal with and distracts you from his mate spamming you from the side and means that back up has more time to get there before you can safely plant the bomb and this is a BAD thing.

But quite good for CT's. If you simply weakened the amount of damage a shielder could do with his pistol, that would solve this problem...you'd go in and take out all the non-shielders, plant while the rest of your team kills the shielder. It's only a balance issue, as it currently is, they can't really be ignored. There needs to be a balance between decoy and useless.



In response to #557:



Shut up. If you REQUIRE the bugs to be in the shield to complain about it, you have nothing important to say. Bugs will be fixed.



In response to #561:



Shielding is a strategic part of the game. I love it when somebody is shielding and I can move into position to take them out.



In response to #562:



A closed shielder has about 10 times the amount of 'blind spots' as a scoped awper.



In response to #568:



Thanks.



In response to #573:



I like shielding and I like coming up against a shielder because (with allies who follow my lead) I always win in both cases. But even if I didn't win, I'd still like it, because it's a challenge.



Also, I've always been arguing that the T's should get SOMETHING. As many people have said, both teams have awps but only CT's have shields, regardless of map type. The T's need something.



In response to #577:



Your biggest complaints come from the fact that it's bugged (including the idea that leagues don't use it: They don't because it's bugged). Bugs will be fixed. Assume bug-free shields when you give your opinion on whether it should be kept-and-balanced or removed.



In response to #581:



I already suggested a delay. It's just one of many possible ways of balancing it. Leave it up to VALVe to balance it and just put yourself under the 'keep it if it's fixed and balanced' category, like I am.



In response to #590:



"Why should I, someone who has invested time and energy in order to achieve the skill I'm at, be completely outmatched by a crappy player just because he has a shield?"



Because you, in your skilled 'eliteness', have yet to figure out how to kill shielders. You're a newbie when it comes to that one skill.

[CobbeH]

god damn post 1.3 player stop supporting the shield please, it has no purpose in this game.

[D of the O J]

Smurfzilla wrote..

i absolutely HATE that response! it makes no sense! u expect us to take out something that even when its to the side, u cant shoot them? or they still hold mp5's an such AND a shield at the same time? not even a hack can help u there..stfu unless uve actually seen the bugs, this poor sap is thinking of the guys that sit in a corner an u just lob nades at him till he dies..dont try to act badass an say ur a pro cuz u can kill a shield, its a piece of shit that needs to be removed IMMEDIATELY! its too buggy, crappy, and useless..Go ahead and fix it up, add it to a filter option, make it more expensive, take dmg,slow down speed, and have it ONLY on cs_ maps, then i might be happy..

just think please... please... for the love of God think.



There won't be hitboxes, I've said it before, the physics will fix the over-reaching shield! Everything has it's bugs when it's first implemented into a game, maybe with Source they can have the techology to get it right this time, maybe we can see a balanced shield in CS:S.

CobbeH wrote..

god damn post 1.3 player stop supporting the shield please, it has no purpose in this game.

lol



you think just because you've played the game longer, it gives you a right above all the other CS players. It doesn't. Change is what's needed in CS, and you're obviously not apt to it.



I'm sure if the shield was ported to Source, and the T's were given SOMETHING that would balance, it'd be perfect. I mean, did you guys in VALVe have to wait a moment before agreeing that both T's and CT's should get a new rifle in 1.6? It's only fair that the T's get something not quite like the shield (I.E. the trash can lid someone proposed earlier... *chuckle*) to combat it.

[fonaul]

D of the O J wrote..

in CS:S I'm sure that the physics will remove the problem of over-reaching shields.

how about asking 'the physics' just to remove the shield completely

[Thortok2000]

My proposal:



#1: Fix the bugs in the shield. The shield must be absolutely bug-free (or as bug-free as the rest of CS:S is) in order to function.



#2: Balance it. This could include providing SOMETHING for the Terrorists, but also includes such things as how efficient they are with the pistol, move speeds, open/close speeds, etc.



Such ideas as 'destructible' where people can simply continue to shoot at the shield as if it was a second layer of armor are incorrect; the shield was meant for you to go around it, not shoot through it. You can balance it and make it easier to go around. But you should never modify the shield so it can be shot through (even the window) otherwise the shield is pointless and is like buying extra armor (on only one side no less), without a primary, and lowering your field of vision. Nobody would use it.



Also, if you consider how much ammo a group of 3-5 AK users can have, the shielder is completely toast if he peeks out at them and his shield is destructible. And what's the point of that? The shielder requires you to come and flank him in order to kill him (or nades). To be able to simply shoot him the same as anyone else defeats the point of the shield entirely.



#3: Keep it. Assuming #1 and #2 (in that order), then it's worth keeping and changing things up a little. After all, the vast majority of players won't be using it anyway, but it'll still be one of those things people will have to learn how to counter, even if they don't use it themselves (like awps--I typically don't use them but must learn to counter them anyway).

[CobbeH]

Being around longer, and being apart of a 'skilled' community I can honestly say my view is more important for the future of CS. If you want realism go and play Rainbow 6, CS was all about fun, and even Gooseman said that he'd make CS to what the community wants. What went wrong when VALVe took over is beyond me, but what they can do is make CS: Source more enjoyable again, and by adding cockend shields and the likes it really is just going to ruin it.

[CobbeH]

#610 Said it all really.

[ImJacksAmygdala]

Why ins't this a site poll???

[Apprentice]

I never use and dont really want to. It is an annoying peice of equipment and as teh t's cant buy one its unfair.

[r6-sword]

boot the shield, and while you're at it, remove the dual berettas aswell!

Both are complitely useless!

[icecubez]

how bout removin the famas n keepin the shield, so T's get an extra gun

[ChinoKix06]

RiDAH wrote..

the shield is fckn gay.. it slows down the game and its banned in CAL so why should they keep it if pplz are jus gon abuse it n do stupid sh!t.. honestly i dont see any skill needed to use a shield...

Last thing i remembered CS wasnt strickly made for CAL?, so if CAL decides not to use the shield that doesnt mean take it out. Granted it is very buggy, and probably not one of the best ideas, but if corrected, and balanced so that an item can be used to counter it (i dunno about a moltov cocktail) i could see the shield not being banned from servers. Its like yes in games the shield causes camping but then again so do sniper rifles? so are you guys saying they should get rid of those too?