article: loyalty

[ALT+F4]

"In this rant, Exo tells us what "loyalty" means in a game like Counter-Strike."



He does? Where? He can't even define it in his follow-up comments.



Not that it matters because "loyalty" has no meaning in this context (although narby's response made some sense). "Loyal" to who? The designers? The publishers? How? By not pirating or hacking the game?



To what? The "community"? The game itself? Just by playing it more often or instead of another? Did he actually say it somewhere and I missed it in the mind-numbing miasma of pointless prose?



There's absolutely no f*cking point to either the concept or the article, which reads like an idea conceived and thought to be brilliant while "under the influence" but really just lies there like a flaccid dick in harsh daylight.

[pablo_m123]

Exo wrote..

Oh so you're saying loyalty is preferring?



OH WAIT YOU JUST SAID THAT'S WRONG.

WOW YOU ARE AN IDIOT



I SAID IT MEANS PREFERRING ANOTHER GAME, NOT COUNTER-STRIKE.



ANOTHER

ANOTHER

ANOTHER



IT MEANS PREFERRING ANOTHER GAME MORE THAN CS, BUT STILL PLAYING CS BECAUSE YOU ARE LOYAL TO IT



GOT IT YET????????????

[rainky]

u know watz loyalty to me? it is guys like pablo_m123 and narby who keeps on coming back juz to defend their opinions on a game they truely love. =)

Added @ [time="1031544155"]

Addiction is me reading this flamewar from post 1 to post 167 and forgetting to go to school to take my promos...oh well...

loyalty....is wat i think it will be after i finish reading this flame war...haha...and pablo_m123 u sure can type a lot!!!

go on go!! lets see who's da whiner!!!

and..btw....i'm not wit pablo_m123....i'm sittin on da fence!! BIATCH!!

[mouth]

Jackshot wrote..

i cant believe your nockin me typin on a forum, u must b horribly bored as am i. think about how many times you will type "just" or in ymy case "jus", ill b saving a nanosecond, and u wont b, so every time i type jus i get 1 nanosecond of liife added on. and dont take the piss, this msg is sposed to b corny.

And it ended up being just sad. Let me lay this out for you in crystal terms, asshead:



Arguments have to do with words. Your words are half-assed and meaningless simply because you're apparently "too cool" to spell things beyond a 3rd grade level. Cutting corners for minimal gain and substantial loss doesn't make you a 1337 time-saver, it makes you a retard trying to excuse his stupidity with lameass reasons.



Your opinion on the matter, thus, means fuck all. Keep that in mind the next time you want to drop your 2 cents on "priorities". I wouldn't want you to wrack your brain and smash the pea, especially since i'm fairly sure you're far from the best source of life advice. Have i made this clear yet, nimrod?



Fucking WebTV moron.

[Romperstomper]

wow, this Pablo lad.... Ummm its one thing to criticise an article and another to totally diss someone, LEARN to criticise in a proper, CIVIl manner ffs!!! Instead of just dissing the author.

This pablo called the author someone under 13, ummm and you are HOW old pablo?? Not real age but MENTALLY?? Grow a baerd - if you can!

ANyhow i found this article interesting, i may not agree on every detail but i wouldnt dream of dissing the author!

[The Family God]

wow.. i read the first 50 comments or so with Poblo's argument... got bored, and skipped to comments 150 and up...and he was STILL arguing?



I see his point though (I think)... and if I get this wrong, he'll probably flame me as well... he's saying that loyalty is an independent variable from "preference" or "desire" to something. And by that definition you can't be loyal to cs, because playing cs is directly dependent upon your desire to play it... but I think loyalty DOES have something to do with desire. Every aspect of loyalty has some sort of reference to a deep down "desire" or some sort. But he is still partly right... let me try to explain...

1)

Perhaps this is a bad example, but lets say a guy in the mafia has to kill his best friend to "prove" his loyalty to the mob. Of course he doesn't want to kill his best friend (there is Pablo's part of the definition), but he does it anyway because he still has a desire to prove himself, to achieve and certain status or placement in the mob.

In this case, they consider loyalty to be something dependent upon sacrifice, and also upon desire to make that sacrifice.

2)

When baseball fans come to the stadium to see their favourite team, even when they are losing the season, those fans are "said" to be loyal to that team.

In this case, there really was no sacrifice by the spectators, but they show loyalty by supporting a team independent of their success or achievement.

3) So, could you say that a CS gamer is "loyal" to cs because they regularly play, despite the constant cheats, harassment by other players or pessimistic community (har har) ?



Yep.

[TinkTank]

Edited by [user="4379"] @ [time="1031592303"]

Quote -

"Loyalty = choosing it over a better deal"



exactly, but I want them to understand what that means. It means actually PREFERRING another game MORE, but still playing couner-strike. and because counter-strike is a GAME, and NOTHING MORE, it would be against the natural order of the world to continue to play counter-strike.



it's like eating shit, when you have a big, juicy steak right next to it.

that's why you cannot be loyal to counter-strike; no one actually does that, and no one should.

- Quote Pablo_m123 No. 160



I read this and wanted to prove you wrong, because of the way you had put it, not because it was (wrong). As a logical deduction it is flawless (and provocative), I just think that the facts you started with are half-truths.



I have a different slant. One of the differences between Counter Strike and other computer games is the way it was created. I have been with CS for a long time and I remember many times when I disliked it. When it was first released it was ugly, I also wanted more choice. I stuck with it, was "loyal" and played often (HL deathmatch was better). I KNEW it could be a really great game and I was rewarded as it became most of what I had hoped for. Many betas later some of my favourite tricks and toys were taken away, but I still played the latest version of CS even though I preferred the previous build. I still believed that the game was going in the right direction.

CS has gone through many shapes and changes which the community have loved and hated. CS's "loyal" supporters have stayed with it (and criticised its every move). I think CS is worthy of "loyalty" because it is not an inanimate object, it does change and adapt, and people will remain "loyal" to it (even dismissing other games) because of what it still could become.



Unfortunately this doesn't prove you conclusively wrong. Fortunately that wasn't my intention. You are right Pablo_m123, nobody in their right mind would eat shit instead of steak (??vegeterians - is shit a meat, I suppose it depends what you ate??) and your vision of CS cannot deserve loyalty. Please bear in mind that many of the moderators and members here find themselves inexplicably "loyal" to CS, even to the exclusion of other games. - Tink



p.s. Nice start and middle Exo, I thought the ending was a bit poor though. A good attempt at a tricky article, PLD



**EDITED for ease of reading**

[Jackshot]

mouth u called me an ass-head and a moron, and u say im a 3rd grader?

[pablo_m123]

Edited by [user="4746"] @ [time="1031594077"]

The Family God wrote..

wow.. i read the first 50 comments or so with Poblo's argument... got bored, and skipped to comments 150 and up...and he was STILL arguing?



I see his point though (I think)... and if I get this wrong, he'll probably flame me as well... he's saying that loyalty is an independent variable from "preference" or "desire" to something. And by that definition you can't be loyal to cs, because playing cs is directly dependent upon your desire to play it... but I think loyalty DOES have something to do with desire. Every aspect of loyalty has some sort of reference to a deep down "desire" or some sort. But he is still partly right... let me try to explain...

1)

Perhaps this is a bad example, but lets say a guy in the mafia has to kill his best friend to "prove" his loyalty to the mob. Of course he doesn't want to kill his best friend (there is Pablo's part of the definition), but he does it anyway because he still has a desire to prove himself, to achieve and certain status or placement in the mob.

In this case, they consider loyalty to be something dependent upon sacrifice, and also upon desire to make that sacrifice.

2)

When baseball fans come to the stadium to see their favourite team, even when they are losing the season, those fans are "said" to be loyal to that team.

In this case, there really was no sacrifice by the spectators, but they show loyalty by supporting a team independent of their success or achievement.

3) So, could you say that a CS gamer is "loyal" to cs because they regularly play, despite the constant cheats, harassment by other players or pessimistic community (har har) ?



Yep.

finally someone with a good argument



I see what you're saying, but my entire point is that even though loyalty has some things to do with desire, those are still seperate from counter-strike



let me explain:



you say that if the person continues to play cs despite all the problems, he is loyal to it. but that is incorrect. the only reason that person continues to play cs is because the good (the game) outweighs the bad (everything else). what you were saying basically was that the person could be having a horrible experience every time he/she plays, but still comes back for more.



If you think about it, "horrible experience" and "game" are not designed to go together. Thus, if a game reaches the point where the bad outweighs the good, people stop playing.



to tinktank:



Even WW2 Online, which was plagued by lag, was addictive to the people who bought it. So they weren't really being loyal to the game by still playing, they were just addicted to the 10 minutes of action they got for every hour of time they put in. same thing with cs



so what is loyalty with desire?



imagine you have a desk job, and you get a hot new secretary. you start to get to know each other, and she tells you she wants to have sex over and over again. one small problem: you have a wife and kids. now, being the good man that you are, you choose to stick by your wife, because you know she loves you and you feel like it is your duty to stay with her. that is loyalty.



but you can't feel towards counter-strike as you feel towards your wife and kids. if you think you can you obviously haven't spent much time with your family in a while



edit: i must really make an impression on people



Romperstomper: wow, this Pablo lad....

The Family God: wow..



and it's pablo, not poblo

[allosaur]

Edited by [user="8017"] @ [time="1031603595"]

I believe pablo is just taking the term "loyalty" too literally. Since this is a word that is associated with emotion and feeling, then he is saying how can that in any way be tied to objects (correct me if I'm wrong or way off base here). That's a somewhat valid point. But I believe that you only need one side (obviously the side showing loyalty) of the party to have any feelings or emotion in order to express loyalty. In other words, a clock cannot show loyalty to telling time because it has no choice. But humans can show loyalty to anything we want because we have a choice. Loyalty, in the sense that we are unwavering to someone or something. No matter what else comes along, we will always go back to that someone or something. So loyalty is a human characteristic and has nothing to do with the object we are being loyal to. Hence, we can choose to be loyal to anything, just like we can show love for anyone or anything.

[pablo_m123]

allosaur wrote..

I believe pablo is just taking the term "loyalty" too literally. Since this is a word that is associated with emotion and feeling, then he is saying how can that in any way be tied to objects (correct me if I'm wrong or way off base here). That's a somewhat valid point. But I believe that you only need one side (obviously the side showing loyalty) of the party to have any feelings or emotion in order to express loyalty. In other words, a clock cannot show loyalty to telling time because it has no choice. But humans can show loyalty to anything we want because we have a choice. Loyalty, in the sense that we are unwavering to someone or something. No matter what else comes along, we will always go back to that someone or something. So loyalty is a human characteristic and has nothing to do with the object we are being loyal to. Hence, we can choose to be loyal to anything, just like we can show love for anyone or anything.

I'm not taking it too literally, Exo is just using that word when he shouldn't. It's like saying "I'm loyal to my cocaine," or "I'm loyal to this strip joint"

[TheGuy]

It defaintly is an addiction. I have been playing halflife for a long time, and I stumbled onto cs on planethalflife.com looking for mods. Fortunatly a beta 1 had been released on this so called counterstrike, and the new weapons and models looked pretty cool. Didn't think it was going to be so big when there were only 5 servers on Won.net, and TFC was dominating. I knew it had gotten big by beta 4 when they introduced C4. This game is an addiction, what it did to me was it highered my standards for all other games. So when I play all other games, they just werent as fun, and they still aren't. It will be the best multiplayer game until Halflife 2 or counterstrike 2, hell even counterstrike condition zero.

[Exo]

pablo_m123 wrote..

I'm not taking it too literally, Exo is just using that word when he shouldn't. It's like saying "I'm loyal to my cocaine," or "I'm loyal to this strip joint"

The article is based on defining loyalty. You can't define loyalty because it's an emotional characteristic. Can you define love? Oh love is liking somebody a lot. No.



I didn't say "I'm loyal to cs." I simply wrote an article that discussed loyalty and possible outcomes of people being loyal to various things. It sparked discussion, so it did it's job.

[pablo_m123]

Exo wrote..

The article is based on defining loyalty. You can't define loyalty because it's an emotional characteristic. Can you define love? Oh love is liking somebody a lot. No.



I didn't say "I'm loyal to cs." I simply wrote an article that discussed loyalty and possible outcomes of people being loyal to various things. It sparked discussion, so it did it's job.

quote



love Pronunciation Key (lv)

n.

A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

A feeling of intense desire and attraction toward a person with whom one is disposed to make a pair; the emotion of sex and romance.



Sexual passion.

Sexual intercourse.

A love affair.

An intense emotional attachment, as for a pet or treasured object.

A person who is the object of deep or intense affection or attraction; beloved. Often used as a term of endearment.

An expression of one's affection: Send him my love.



/quote



you CAN define love and loyalty, because they are W-O-R-D-S created by H-U-M-A-N-S. words are used to describe emotions.



"I simply wrote an article that discussed loyalty and possible outcomes of people being loyal to various things."



no you wrote an article that discussed what it means to be loyal to a game.



"It sparked discussion, so it did it's job."



yes, that is true. it sparked discussion about how stupid you are, and how your article made no sense. then it sparked discussion as you feebly attempted to defend your ideas, only to get smacked down by me and a whole sh*t-load of others.



I think we've reached the point where I piss all over him



PS: and all that was for calling me a flamer and an idiot

[Exo]

You have the ego of an elephant, but the arguments of an ant.



My mother used to tell people that, and it seems to be working here. Please stop claiming you win, and you're pissing all over me. I've clearly got more people arguing on my side. Oh wait I forgot, your's aren't responding becuase they only post once.