To PKM whiners

[PBJTime]

Re: To PKM whiners

Problem right now with the PKM is that it's too accurate. Period. The solution to fixing it and making it a true support weapon is fairly simple.

Increase the minimum cone of fire on the PKM similar to what it was pre patch. Now reduce the maximum cone of fire. What you end up with is a weapon that can saturate an area with bullets, but can not engage single targets with any kind of accuracy. The role of a support weapon is to provide suppressive fire while others advance and what I just described will let it fill that role perfectly.

The problem is, suppressive fire doesn't work too well in this game. In real life, people value their lives but that isn't the case in a game.

There will always be one weapon in game better than others. There's always something better. SMG's will never but up to the standards of AR's and such. You can't just nerf everything down to nothing. I never have a problem dying too much from a PKM so I can't understand the big deal, I suppose. I die much more from arty than I do a PKM.

[vbl]

Re: To PKM whiners

The problem is, suppressive fire doesn't work too well in this game. In real life, people value their lives but that isn't the case in a game.

Yup. In BF2, if it's not killing you then it doesn't matter.

[SlakTSP]

Re: To PKM whiners

/disagree.
1.)PKM can hit people behind cover (its accurate enough).
2.) ducking, popping up, shooting, going back down, moving a little, then repeat is something you should do all the time with or without pkm.
3.)Support kit has (unlimited) grenades as well.
4.)Moving while under fire is a given, PKM can stop your moving fast though.
5.) bonzai charge... You're right if they do that they deserve it.
6.) always moving doesn't matter. It counters snipers pretty well, but the pkm can spray enough to kill you anyway.

point is: who wins on an infantry vs. infantry situation assuming players are of equal skill. Seems pretty obvious the guy with the PKM to me, hence people are upset. One would think assault should be the (infantry) killing machine, since it has no other team abilities.

/shrug

1. It can shoot through walls? Dang.. never knew about that. Behind cover =/= standing up, it means being BEHIND cover aka safe
2. Yep, so why complain when you die to a pkm if you get hit in the chest. Chest hits mean you werent playing smart
3. Medic kit has unlimited health packs and revives. The point: Dont bunch up
4. Of course it can stop you, do you honestly think people in a war want to move through a big open area? No, its dangerous.
5. yep
6. Always moving means you dont stop in the road to shoot at the guy, or look for another target. It means shooting and running, and knowing when to stop. And trust me, IT DOES HELP against PKMs, but if you dont believe me stop moving; I appreciate the +2.

Your point: If it was all about PKM how come i can do well with almost any kit? And your right, assault SHOULD BE the infantry killer, but GUESS WHAT! You nerfed it, and that is the result.

Its not that everyone is getting owned by it. Its that everyone is going support and that its better than every other weapon in every situation, which makes it very unbalanced.

MAybe that has to do with the fact that virtually no one play's assault? There are only 3 classes that have HA and AT is only good for clearing vehicles really. As for a weapon better than others in any situation I again disagree.

Ive killed plenty of PKMer's by getting close then running around them while shooting at them. Its a matter of knowing what you need to do, thats pretty much it.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: To PKM whiners

Problem right now with the PKM is that it's too accurate. Period. The solution to fixing it and making it a true support weapon is fairly simple.

Increase the minimum cone of fire on the PKM similar to what it was pre patch. Now reduce the maximum cone of fire. What you end up with is a weapon that can saturate an area with bullets, but can not engage single targets with any kind of accuracy. The role of a support weapon is to provide suppressive fire while others advance and what I just described will let it fill that role perfectly.

Give this man a job. 100% realism isn't what we're going for in BF2, but each kit should have its role without stepping on another kit's toes. Now that the PKM can be used as a pseudo-sniper on single shot it goes from being a suppression weapon and a medium-range death machine to a fog-distance sharpshooter with full auto capabilites, and the full-auto capabilites have in fact been nerfed. Basically they made it so that it is less accurate on full auto than it used to be but more accurate on single shot. Why the hell would they do this to SUPPORT, whose very nature is that of having a full auto weapon? No other gun in the game has the size of a magazine that the support weapons have because they're supposed to be full-auto WMDs, not one-shot wonders. That's what snipers are for, and even the carbines to a certain degree.

I got quite a few kills before 1,2 with the support weapons. I was also counter sniping snipers with the PKM before the patch.

No, you weren't. Even on single shot the support weapons were extremely inaccurate pre-patch. I would love to see you try to 'counter-snipe a sniper' at fog distance in Karkand with a 1.12 PKM. Assuming the guy was a tard and didn't see or hear you and you have time to rip off enough single shots to empty your magazine, then yes, you would 'outsnipe' him. But head-on, no, you would be dog meat unless you got an EXTREMELY lucky shot. Skill had little to do with the pre-patch support weapons, they were all about luck. Rather than simply dropping down the deviations for the support guns in the patch, they instead widened the cone of fire which was a stupid thing to do.

And all the people who complain about PKM's by saying it is overpowered are the people who run blindly into battle without looking!

Nice generalisation, but an incorrect one nonetheless. I don't get monkey-stomped by the PKM unless I meet up with someone who knows that single-shotting is the way to go. And it's easy to see who knows this information because that's when you start seeing name after name pop up while your guys are dying from 100 yards away to his PKM. My reason for thinking the PKM is overpowered is because I've used it (somewhat extensively) since the patch and have made really long shots with it that I don't think the PKM, or any support gun for that matter, has any business making on a consistant basis if this game is to remain balanced. Sure, a lot of people will grouse about anything that kills them, but I guarantee you there are those who, like me, are complaining because they've used it and can see how overpowered it is as well.

~Wolfgang

[vbl]

Re: To PKM whiners

PKM doesn't fire fast enough to "saturate" an area.

[<}US{>Mother]

Re: To PKM whiners

PKM stands for = Proned Killing machine!

[Grimlokster]

Re: To PKM whiners

ya i love PKM whoever disses it sucks

[Kayback]

Re: To PKM whiners

No, you weren't. Even on single shot the support weapons were extremely inaccurate pre-patch. I would love to see you try to 'counter-snipe a sniper' at fog distance in Karkand with a 1.12 PKM. Assuming the guy was a tard and didn't see or hear you and you have time to rip off enough single shots to empty your magazine, then yes, you would 'outsnipe' him. But head-on, no, you would be dog meat unless you got an EXTREMELY lucky shot. Skill had little to do with the pre-patch support weapons, they were all about luck.

Haha, I love the way people were telling me what I did or did not do. I was the one doing it rememer?

The PKM wasn't all that bad so long as you fired in bursts of 2 or 3. Or sometimes a burst until the barrel heated up if you were trying for an area target like a Humvee.

And I never said "out snipe" I said "counter snipe". There is a difference. One requires you to be at the maximum range of the weapon and visials, the other requires you to kill him before he kills you, wherever you are.

I spent many happy kills at the Mosque flag in Mashtuur shooting the snipers on the building opposite, by backyard. Or on the buildings by power station shooting same sniping spot. Or on the buildings between power station and hotel shooting that one.

It could be done, and it was fun doing it. It was good for humiliation kills.

Did I always win? No. Neither do I win when I play sniper and try counter sniping.

However it was do-able. You just required patience and a good location. You could generally rely on the sniper being eager enough to try kill you to expose himself before you did.

KBK

[Alcorr]

Re: To PKM whiners

they know how to use everything at their disposal and available to them to their advantage. (and that means playing more than one kit).

Umm no, playing exclusively support using basically nothing except PKM and ammo bags (not not even nades) it is quite easy to net 100+ (top of the server) scores consistenly on many maps....

Those that kill me:
1. They choose positions with multiple areas of cover
2. They hide behind cover and semi auto shoot at me at their conveyence
3. They throw a
4. When I shoot at their sniping spot they move instead of sitting there
5. They do not BONZAI CHARGE at me.
6. Theyre always moving

But heres the thing tho, in a 1v1 situation, PKM wins 95% of the time, you are both prone and start firing at same time...PKM vs. anything else...PKM will win 90-95% of time....

They exploit the fact that I'm not very mobile compared to their assault rifles and carbines. And it works.

Mobility? Even though support has body armor and has less sprint, you still move just as fast as medic players....running across the street with a full sprint meter makes zero difference.

Setup time for PKM is maybe 1-2 seconds more than assault rifles/carbines....

Not like you ever need to setup with PKM anyways, you are always prone.

And s to make PKM players move? Come on. I see you pop out from behind building, I aim, fire three shots. You die after you pull pin but before you throw nade....

Not to mention the biggest complaint about PKM is on karkand where....umm...you HAVE to go head on....there is no way to go around...well unless you take the WAYY far distance by the mountain....

Look, in game, I have yet to complain about PKM, although it is overpowered, heres why:

1. Does more dmg than any other infantry weapon in game, bar the sniper rifles and (maybe) the G3.
2. Has unlimited ammo.
3. First three shots scoped in hit 90% of time and it only takes 3 shots to kill someone.

1. They choose positions with multiple areas of cover
2. They hide behind cover and semi auto shoot at me at their conveyence
3. They throw a
4. When I shoot at their sniping spot they move instead of sitting there
5. They do not BONZAI CHARGE at me.
6. Theyre always moving

1. Cover? So? if you can hit me il hit you and the PKM accuracy is so high il almost always hit you more than u hit me.

2. Semi auto shoot? So? Il semi auto u back and il do more dmg per shot than u do.

3. Throw a nade? So? Either il move back and then throw unlimited nades back at you or il just shoot you before you get a chance to hurl the nade.

4. Move? Ok you can move, il just move to another position and shoot you back, as I said before, all bf2 soldiers move same speed.

5. Umm well ok, don't charge me, il still kill you...

6. Same as #4.

[SlakTSP]

Re: To PKM whiners

Umm no, playing exclusively support using basically nothing except PKM and ammo bags (not not even nades) it is quite easy to net 100+ (top of the server) scores consistenly on many maps....

Nice lie but getting 100+ in a 64 player map is fairly infrequent, and no I do not play on "noob" servers. Theres actually quite good squad play going on the two 64 player servers i play on.

But heres the thing tho, in a 1v1 situation, PKM wins 95% of the time, you are both prone and start firing at same time...PKM vs. anything else...PKM will win 90-95% of time....

You mean s proned PKM wins a fight if you run infront of it? Damn who woulda thought. Thats why smart players dont follow sheep. And no, if you LOOK BOTH WAYS before entering my line of site 99% of the time i cant kill you.

Mobility? Even though support has body armor and has less sprint, you still move just as fast as medic players....running across the street with a full sprint meter makes zero difference.

To shoot i prefer being prone, meaning if you throw a nade i dont have the time to sprint away.

And s to make PKM players move? Come on. I see you pop out from behind building, I aim, fire three shots. You die after you pull pin but before you throw nade....

Huh? Ive yet to experience the so call "insta death" that players complain about. And i throw a nade running, i dont stand in one spot with a "shoot me" sign on my chest. You stop you die, you move you live.

Not to mention the biggest complaint about PKM is on karkand where....umm...you HAVE to go head on....there is no way to go around...well unless you take the WAYY far distance by the mountain....

Youre kidding right? Karkand is an excellent map for those that know how to use a grenade. Maybe you need to learn? I dont clear PKMs or anyone for that matter with bullets when i do not HAVE to. I use grenades. When people are at a distance I use the sniper kit pick my targets carefully and headshot. Else! I play medic and run up, duck in cover, heal, run up, shoot kil, cover, heal, rinse and repeat. I'm not superman.

1. Does more dmg than any other infantry weapon in game, bar the sniper rifles and (maybe) the G3.
2. Has unlimited ammo.
3. First three shots scoped in hit 90% of time and it only takes 3 shots to kill someone.

1. All weapons take 3-5 shots to kill a player. Theres really not that much difference. However, LA players usually only take 3 shots to kill (choose you kit wisely)
2. So do medics have unlimited health? I still have to reload, medics can still die. Your point?
3. Yes, if the target is sitting, proned, and not doing much. Like i said before, choose your cover wisely and watch over enemy positions.

1. Cover? So? if you can hit me il hit you and the PKM accuracy is so high il almost always hit you more than u hit me.

2. Semi auto shoot? So? Il semi auto u back and il do more dmg per shot than u do.

3. Throw a nade? So? Either il move back and then throw unlimited nades back at you or il just shoot you before you get a chance to hurl the nade.

4. Move? Ok you can move, il just move to another position and shoot you back, as I said before, all bf2 soldiers move same speed.

5. Umm well ok, don't charge me, il still kill you...

6. Same as #4.

1. Cover? Yes, you have the advantage of suprise. USE IT. Poke your head slowly out and kill me. If you dont want to poke your head out. Throw a nade

2. Except for the fact I can pop my head out whenever I want. Your stuck with multiple areas to cover.

3. If you're throwing nades youre not holding your weapon by which i can run out and kill you. Not to mention I can run around still and hit you from another angle

4. Move as in hit from different angles, but i never knew move meant speed... o wait.

5. And ill still come around and knife you.



PS If your complaining about not enough ammo maybe you should rearm after killing that support player hmm? But then that would require a little strategizing.

[=LAF=Ronald]

Re: To PKM whiners

ill think of some balance. bring back prone jumping.

[Alcorr]

Re: To PKM whiners

Nice lie but getting 100+ in a 64 player map is fairly infrequent, and no I do not play on "noob" servers. Theres actually quite good squad play going on the two 64 player servers i play on.

Its not a lie, obviously you don't use the PKM often.

You mean s proned PKM wins a fight if you run infront of it? Damn who woulda thought. Thats why smart players dont follow sheep. And no, if you LOOK BOTH WAYS before entering my line of site 99% of the time i cant kill you.

No, I mean 1v1, no running around, 1v1, you both fire at the same time, PKM wins 90% of time, which wouldn't be that bad if you didn't have 100 shot mag, unlimited ammo and nades etc....

To shoot i prefer being prone, meaning if you throw a nade i dont have the time to sprint away.

Ummm, yeah I DO have time to get away. Spacebar + mouse movement + W + Shift....

Huh? Ive yet to experience the so call "insta " that players complain about. And i throw a nade running, i dont stand in one spot with a "shoot me" sign on my chest. You stop you die, you move you live.

No, I mean the PKM is so ly that alert players will see you the instant you pop out and have you before the nade is thrown...THATs how accurate and ly the PKM is...

1. All weapons take 3-5 shots to kill a player. Theres really not that much difference. However, LA players usually only take 3 shots to kill (choose you kit wisely)
2. So do medics have unlimited health? I still have to reload, medics can still die. Your point?
3. Yes, if the target is sitting, proned, and not doing much. Like i said before, choose your cover wisely and watch over enemy positions.

1. 5-3...thats 2. 2 shots make a difference....
2. If it was a 30 shot mag, unlimited ammo wouldn't be bad, but reloading while using the PKM is a rarity considering it only takes 3 shots to kill and 100 shot mag.
3. Even moving, 3 shots still kills fast, the PKM is just as accurate...

1. Cover? Yes, you have the advantage of suprise. USE IT. Poke your head slowly out and kill me. If you dont want to poke your head out. Throw a nade
2. Except for the fact I can pop my head out whenever I want. Your stuck with multiple areas to cover.
3. If you're throwing nades youre not holding your weapon by which i can run out and kill you. Not to mention I can run around still and hit you from another angle
4. Move as in hit from different angles, but i never knew move meant speed... o wait.
5. And ill still come around and knife you.

1. What? I was saying that even if you have cover, I can still kill u easy
2. Not really, UAV means you can basically see where everyone is and so you can tell whos about to pop out.
3. Umm I said if you want to do nade wars il win because I have unlimited ammo, gun vs. gun, PKM always wins as I said before, Il kill you before you throw first nade.
4. So? With UAV no matter what angle you come from il be ready.
5. UAV...no knifing...

PS If your complaining about not enough ammo maybe you should rearm after that support player hmm? But then that would require a little strategizing.

What? I never complained about not enough ammo....who the fvck are you talking to?

Look the point is that if you have two players with equal skill in all kits and weapons, put them in a map together, no vehicles, not terrain advantage (equal terrain advantages/disadvantages per player) the PKM guy will own 90% of time.

Doesn't matter what kit the other guy uses, medic, assault, engineer...

[Mekstizzle]

Re: To PKM whiners

Only problem i see is the PKM's accuracy whilst standing and crouching. Same with Snipers really...

[Alcorr]

Re: To PKM whiners

Only problem i see is the PKM's accuracy whilst standing and crouching. Same with Snipers really...

Snipers I don't mind, low fire rate (except for chinese and svd but they are inaccurate when firing fast)

But yes, PKM fix just needs to be accuracy in between 1.2 and 1.12 states.

It was easy enough to own in 1.12 with PKM, now its ridiculous...

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: To PKM whiners

I want a reduction of PKM accuracy to 0.3 and buff of assualt rifle accuracy to current PKM level. Not realistic, but good for gameplay.