To PKM whiners

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: To PKM whiners

I used to use PKM all the way until 1.2, at which point I stopped.

PKM should be a specialty weapon that takes time to master, not an instant prone photon cannon.

It's not overpowered in its own right, but comparing to other weapons, it is.

[Idaeus]

Re: To PKM whiners

this is like what? the fifth weapon to be whined about... I thought G36C was the overpowered weapon?

[Kayback]

Re: To PKM whiners

I still like the AK-101. Either the Medic's or the assault. I prefer th medic's because I can throw hand grenades and heal/revive people.

Last night I scored 80 on Sharki and came 3rd behind a copper pilot and a commander. All with the AK-101. I even killed an entire squad of PKM'ers near city entrance.

The PKM is a good weapon, but it can be beaten.

It is a little TOO easy to dive into the dirt and fire a burst into my chest, but generally I've crouched and semi auto fired 3 rounds into your head before you get your first shot off.

It's mainly

6. They tend to run out into the open without looking both ways
7. They stop moving

that kills me.

You generally have to stop moving if you want to shoot back. However you don't HAVE to shoot back. :)

KBK

[markan dorka]

Re: To PKM whiners

it (and mg36) are just too accurate

problem is that all the rest of the guns have same sort of "concept" of accuracy, but support unlocks are like from different games. They break the game mechanics that rely on different stances, burst firing and whatnot. Maps are laid out in a way that using every other weapon is balanced and firefights last certain amount of time - you can categorize fighting in 3 different ranges - short, medium, long - and for support, each of those ranges are way longer than for other guns. If map designer wanted certain place to have certain engagement range, support breaks this design pattern and gives its user ability to play that 50m range as if it was close, and other classes can't cope with that - the guys without support unlock are playing entirely different map.

This isn't as much as of an problem with smaller playernumbers (or better yet, no unlocks as clan games are) because you have more options to force close combat (where both of you are fighting on same terms) by maneuvering - but with like 32 players / side there might not be vacant routes as all. Your opponent may cover every single passage and have half of his team still left over.

Every other gun has element of uncertainty in them, and require you think about your rate of fire and where to aim - support unlocks as automatic weapons with pre-1.2 sniper accuracy don't. Most of the time, you just aim at your enemy (which isn't hard with any gun given the game is so slow) and either tap or just go full auto until your opponent dies.

Even if you're prone with AR on something like medium range, waiting to ambush someone, support guy can just run around corner, go prone and kill you because rest of guns have built in inaccuracy that doesn't let you fire 5 consencutive hits unless you spend something like 5 seconds doing that - support really doesn't. He can just take the 2-3 hits you manage to score in initial encounter, and proceed to full auto you to death.

Before anybody argues that it's problem with prone delay, remember that support accuracy beats all assault rifles even when standing. And has something like 2x more accuracy when crouching. Combine this with what I said about ranges in general, and it becomes painfully obvious that without tinkering with game mechanics and map design (which would means lots of work and possibly new balance issues), accuracy is the underlying problem, it's the root of all the issues with the gun.

Sure you can defeat the guy with superior weapon, outsmart him etc. but it's really not different from claiming submachineguns as weapons are balanced because you can kill people with them.

And no, I don't think other weapons should be buffed. That'd require redesigning maps and starting balancing the game all over again.

[Phenixs]

Re: To PKM whiners

i think the support is finaly what it supposed to be. before 1.2 it was like this: you were running around, suddenly you hear many shots firing at you. you look what it is.....a support class....you think" ahhhww its only a stupid support class, im at 100m range so i can take my time and go prone and fire a few bullits in his head without being hit myself". while you should run for youre life if youre being shot by a machine gun. and that finaly became true in this patch.

but still many people think they can beat a support thats in a prone position and shooting youre guts out.

[MrBenis]

Re: To PKM whiners

You should see some of the insane shots I've pulled with the G3.

Infact, just for amusement's sake, I camped the same location as PW did for that video. I was using a G3 and I called in a supply crate since I couldn't reload myself like a support kit.

Guess what? I did just as well!
I even had the honor of having someone scream "HACKER!!" because I'd managed to headshot him several times in the round (dude never ducked! Just stood in the open and let me take my time. Plugged him again while he was typing his accusation ).

While I agree that the support weapons could use a little tweaking, I don't think they need anything too drastic.

G3 owns the PKM in close quarters. Sniper rifles use well are more effective at long range. The PKM doesn't dominate... it's just a little over the top at what it does.

Hahaha hahaha, no. PKM is like a DAO-12 in my hands, and I use it for everything. Obviously if you matched planewhores 'skillz' on that map then he didn't do a very good job anyway.

For instance, a particularily good run on karkand nets me about anywhere between 30 and 40 PKM kills with a measly 2 - 7 deaths in that round (I play as squad leader on Karkand, having medics around is useful).

Pre-1.2 you'd be lucky to get 15 kills if you WERE NOT camping the Hotel spawn corridor. I remember getting 20 kills once (pre 1.2) and thinking I was doing really well.. I look back now and smile, because I get that many kills twice over on a good run.

[Kayback]

Re: To PKM whiners

Not really hey. I got quite a few kills before 1,2 with the support weapons. I was also counter sniping snipers with the PKM before the patch.

You just had to know how to use them. It actually took me quite some time to adjust to the "upgraded" guns.

While they are much much easier to use now I was generally running 4/5 kills per death. Now it's closer to 15/20. But in the right hands the Support weapons were always good. Espceially if you used them to supress an area. In tight corners like Karkand they were mean bullethoses. In more open maps they were used to hose down the squads of badguys while the other team mates cleaned up.

Now you can do your own cleaning up.

They ARE over balanced. But this is how a belt fed machinegun should be.

There are IMHO too many of them on the map. They should be in their current configuration, but limited numbers. As this isn't possible, well leave them how they are.

I must say I enjoy BF2 more since there are plenty of people with belt fed guns instead of instagib grenade launchers.

If you know what you are doing you can counter the PKM with just about any gun in the game. But the PKM is the best overall weapon.

KBK

[madcooie]

Re: To PKM whiners

That's the whole point of a support class to be able to lay down covering fire and keep the enemies heads down...the gun in real life is extremely powerful, it is made by Kalashnikov and everyone will have heard of the AK and it's reputation for hard-hitting and accuracy always precede it. In all it's essence the support class is most useful when in a squad where he/she can provide SUPPORT for the squad but also deal out death too, when the time comes. And all the people who complain about PKM's by saying it is overpowered are the people who run blindly into battle without looking! These people aren't noobs they're just careless...

[Kayback]

Re: To PKM whiners

Madcooie, you ever shot an AK? They aren't that accurate. While they are decently accurate on semi auto fire, they kick too hard, and the gun flexes too much for full auto fire.

The PKM even worse as it fires a BIG round.

In side by side comparisons, an M16 or G36 would out shoot an AK for a rest.

An AK produces "useable" accuracy IRL, but the PKM in the game prodcues "Competition" grade accuracy, on full auto.

Shooting an AK I can land all 30 rounds on an A4 page in under 15 seconds at 70m, in BF2 you can do it on full auto with a PKM in two seconds.

I'm not complaining about the effectiveness of the PKM. I personally LOVE it. However compared to the other weapons, even the other support weapons it is a touch over powered.

And I'm saying it from THIS side of the gun, not that.

KBK

[madcooie]

Re: To PKM whiners

Sure, i shot one when i was on holiday in Texas yes it kicks like a mule...and really i was talking about the AK's in game...But i know where you are coming from completely!

[imported_vaeth]

Re: To PKM whiners

Funny how you selfish guys always defend your overpowered weapons by saying things like:
=> It should be like this
Oh right but why? Because YOU say so? Because YOU like it?
I tell you something this game is not about you it is about us. As soon as one weapon in combination with the classes abilitys overpoweres others the game will be less enjoyable for everybody that refuses to change classes because of the better weapon.
=> I can still be killed
Right a AT can kill a tank too but nobody would say that the chances are even. This is regulated by the max. number of tanks on a map but the max. number of support on one side is the number of players on this side.
=> You can use it too
Thats my all time favorite. What if I don't want to? What if I like to play the kit that is actually needed at this thime? What if I don't wanna feel like a noob always changing the weapons to the one that has been overpowered with the last patch?
But actually we don't need to discuss this anymore, DICE WILL rebalance the PKM and the MG36 and YOU WILLl have to get some skill's on even ground.

[Wild_Wokman]

Re: To PKM whiners

I agree! I kill PKMer's all the time, and it's not becasue we are "DUKING" it out but because of smart tactics. Most of the weapons in BF2 are deadly except the SMG's.

[Phenixs]

Re: To PKM whiners

the pkm als has some disadvantages. its no so accurate when shooting full auto. so its not THAT good for spraying a enemy squad. while the mg36 and the rpk are more accurate when firing full auto.

PKM is a good single/burts fire gun. but for a more accurate bullet shower id rather take another support gun.

[Sadistic_1]

Re: To PKM whiners

I have to laugh everytime I see someone compare the weapons in game to their real life counterparts. Haven't we already established a thousand times that this game isn't realistic? If it was, a knife to the foot wouldn't instantly kill you.

[madcooie]

Re: To PKM whiners

Hehe, it might eventually...maybe he was just trying to cut that veruca off! :p

Also, when it comes to the game, is it not about living out your fantasies? So to make them as real as possible it makes sense to make everything in the game as accurate as possible!