Blackhawk Must Return

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

I say give the Blackhawk more armor than it used to have; it should be allowed to take 6 Anti-Air missiles and Machine Gun Fire. Of course TV Guided and Jet's could still take one out, it would just take Jets more than one pass.

Yet. With this increase in armor the Mini-Guns should be replaced with mounted .50 (Hummer). The Blackhawk needs to be a flying troop transport. Not a flying turret.

I think the APC should be treated exactly the same. Decrease the firepower (Give is Anti-Tank rocket the mimic the ground kit, and a .50-BMG). Yet it should be able to take outrageous amounts of damage. It should operate almost strictly as a troop transport with limited ability to defend its self (that should be up to the "troops" that are being "transported" by it)

{WP}Paas

Quoted for ABSOLUTE truth.
A transportation vehicle should transport the troops and keep them safe (to a degree).

[TriggerHappy2005]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

Beef up it's armor and remove the mini guns so that it becomes what it should have been, a troop transporter and not an airborne rape gheyness vehicle.

[imported_Apostle]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

Modify BH in another fashion (include your your proposal).

I never really thought DICE should have nerfed the BH as much as they did. The real issue was that the other transport heli's, had no ability to hit anything whilst in flight.

The BH should of had limited ammo, or bullet spread increased. It's counterparts needed a slight boost of splash damage, I mean just a little, to balance it out.

[ShapeSh1fter]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

They need to bring back the BH abilities before especially the armor...they are just so easy to down these days.

I read on gotfrag in some interview that the helis needed about 2-3 less .50 cal shots in 1.2 than in 1.12...

:)

[ConscriptVirus]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

armor yes..mini gun no..i mean i really do like the old mini gun with the massive carnage on bases, but i hate going against it..

[Ashram]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

Quoted for ABSOLUTE truth.
A transportation vehicle should transport the troops and keep them safe (to a degree).

It was one of the first posts in the thread and I found it to be extremely insightful. As it stands, the APCs are being used as cheap, disposable tanks. The point is reinforced when we never actually see troops being transported in it. It just seems that the majority of players settle for an APC when there isn't a healthy tank parked nearby...which is pretty stupid.

APCs, as I understand them, are meant to be the ground-serving equivalent of the BH, moving full squads from one point to another with substantianal cover. You should dread the sight of an approaching APC for the potential of what may emerge from within (e.g. a highly diversified squad ready to kick ass). The problem that in it's currents state, it's nothing short of a death trap and many people have realised this early on. A well timed bombing run from any fighter aircraft well leave it a smoldering heap of trash on the side of road, and God Forbid you run into a tank, the limited armour doesnt grant you much time to make a speedy getaway. I think the modifications outlined by the original poster are excellent and most welcome.

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

I read on gotfrag in some interview that the helis needed about 2-3 less .50 cal shots in 1.2 than in 1.12...

Umm well your wrong. If anything, its 3 less BARs not 3 less shots....especially since the 50 cal fire rate isn't that bad....

Either way, when im flying jets and I see a chopper I go...YES! easy kills!

[ShapeSh1fter]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

Umm well your wrong. If anything, its 3 less BARs not 3 less shots....especially since the 50 cal fire rate isn't that bad....

Umm no, I'm quite sure they said that the usmc attach heli needed 45 .50 go blow whilst in 1.12 it needed 47 or so, dont remember the BH stuff. Obviously the clan guy they were interviewing wasn't talking about actual healthbars.

just passing on what I read dude...

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

Umm no, I'm quite sure they said that the usmc attach heli needed 45 .50 go blow whilst in 1.12 it needed 47 or so, dont remember the BH stuff. Obviously the clan guy they were interviewing wasn't talking about actual healthbars.

just passing on what I read dude...

Well ok then, I guess THEY were wrong then.

[Revoluti0n]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

They should remove one gun from the BH and restore it. The MEC/China helo should have it's guns "SLIGHTLY" beefed up.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

It's simple, I propose that DICE simply change the Blackhawk back into the fighting machine and support heli it used to be.
ok say it with me now, "transport helicopter". it can still be used for supporting an assault, but only when the enemy has no air support. as things should be.

This includes the thickened armour, and the splash damage on the chain guns.
it can still take a huge amount of punishment, it takes three at missiles to kill it, and a full over heat of the 50cal. splash damage isnt needed, it still kills very well. you just have to have a good crew.

Why you ask? Because on maps like Oman and Dalian, where the BH is essential to gaining access to the mainland
on dalian the enemy doesnt have any flags, fly low, and cap a flag, use cover after you get into the city. once again its a transport heli, no reason to keep more than two people in it after you hit land. in omen, dont spawn on deck unless you are planning on getting an attack heli/jet/essex, the round starts with caps, so what reason would you have to spawn on deck?

On either map, 9 out of 10 times, a U.S. team which has been driven into the sea simply can't make it back onto the shore and the opposing team just sits there and waits with their thumbs up their asses.
thats what you get for spawning on the deck when you have flags a spots on shore.

it's extremely boring for the defending team, because there are no engagements to be had with the enemy.
this happened billions of times before the patch, as long as theres jets, retarded bh crews will go down.

I can put up with the BH whores especially if it means that I can actually engage them
engage them with no point, they just suck up damage and repair with eng in back.

bottom line the bh was way too effective before the patch, for exactly the reasons you want reimplemented. splash damage means you dont have to aim, and high armor means that it can soak up damage and repair endlessly, meaning the ground forces have to deal with two things at once. this is a pathetic attempt to make the game whored out, like how planewhore is campaigning for imortal unskilled jets to come back.

[r0uJe]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

they should've left the BH alone and improved the other transport choppers!

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

they should've left the BH alone and improved the other transport choppers!

Yep ^^^

[WarGimp]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

My personal take on it:

The BH was one of the most teamwork intensive elements of BF2. Yes, it could be an overpowering force, but it required up to 6 players to get work together to get it to that level. Oppose that to a single plane pilot who can inflict just about as much damage, or and attack chopper that can do nearly the same with only 2 crew.

The 'Hawk had more flexibility than either, of cource. It can be used to cap flags (unlike planes) and can repair while airborn (unlike attack choppers). It's also very effective as an airborn spawn point, unlike anything else in the game. That said, it was problematic in versions previous to 1.2 in that it could be an almost indomitable force.

Here's a (very) rough Battle Recorder vid I was working on previous to 1.2 focusing on my BH piloting and the great teamwork of my squad during a round of Cleansweap. (I intended to finish work on this with better res and sound, but 1.2 changed BHs so much, I didn't feel it was relivent anymore).

http://rapidshare.de/files/13071684/R2AirCavRoughSND_SCR.wmv.html

Tweak suggestions:

I'd like to see the M134 (the BH's guns) tweaked to a point between 1.12 and 1.2. Restore some splash damage, but not the monsterous amount that it had before. I'd also say that if armour was to be futzed with, it should only be ramped up slightly. The low armour pushes a good BH pilot to be more careful about choosing when/where to engadge and makes the importance of having a good crew even more of a factor. Besides, I like the tenshion.

However, a good designer know that you can't just modify one element of a system without looking at other surrounding factors. With that in mind, here's some additional related tweaks:

- AA and plane cannon damage reduced.
- Plane armour further reduced
This would lower the vunerability of choppers to AA and plane fire without returning to the sillyness of being able to take multiple tankrounds and keep on flying.

- Skycow needs to be made comparable.
I don't like carbon copy elements, but the skycow needs to be able to compete with the 'Hawk. I've been thinking about ways it could be improved yet still remain different. Some splash could be applied to it's guns, it's armour could be improved, and/or it's torque could be ramped up. Even just improved gun stability could help out.

These are my observations, anyway.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Blackhawk Must Return

The BH was one of the most teamwork intensive elements of BF2.
id have to give that to the attack heli. how exactly is wrenching in the back of the bh using teamwork, you are just sitting there.

but it required up to 6 players to get work together to get it to that level.
yes, an infantry squad can do the same thing. and more to the point, a good airborne assault squad can still work together highly effectivly.

Oppose that to a single plane pilot who can inflict just about as much damage, or and attack chopper that can do nearly the same with only 2 crew.
jets and attack helis can inflict much more damage than bhs ever could, as they should, its a transport vehicle

The 'Hawk had more flexibility than either, of cource. It can be used to cap flags
the infantry it deploys can still cap flags. and before a good jet pilot would take out a static bh in seconds.

It's also very effective as an airborn spawn point, unlike anything else in the game.
still is

That said, it was problematic in versions previous to 1.2 in that it could be an almost indomitable force.
yeap

- AA and plane cannon damage reduced.
um that would just compound the problem

- Plane armour further reduced
that has nothing to do with the bh

This would lower the vunerability of choppers to AA and plane fire
a good jet pilot after 1.2 is always checking his six this is because a jet can take out another jet in an instant. thus the vaunerability of choppers is directly related to the air support available.