For all plane whores.

Re: For all plane whores.

I'm with Emoticon on this one, get rid of A2A missile lock altogether. G2A I think should stay pretty much as it is otherwise nothing would deter planes from attacking ground armour with missiles and bombs:hmm:

As regards the original question I feel a little disapointed with 1.2 simply because I suck at infantry and flying planes was all I could do (no need for the violins but thanks anyway). If you're in a J10 it's still ok, you can still avoid other planes missiles but if you're in the F35 against a J10 with a reasonable pilot it's no contest anymore. The different turning abilities between the two planes (which was always there) has become much more important now because of the better A2A missile tracking.

On the upside I'm now using the PKM on the ground and can actually shoot people, but that's another topic.

Re: For all plane whores.

AA is still about timing and skill..good pilots know where the fixed AA is and it is (or should be if you're worth anything as a pilot) the pilots #1 priority on his list of: Stuff to Blow-Up.

Planewhore, here's an honest question for you: If you love flying so much and hate the new patch so much...why don't you just play a flight simulator? There's plenty of good flight sims out there to fit whatever type of aircraft you're into. So why don't you?

I love the new AA and I shoot planes and helos down now on a regular basis. Sure I still get killed too, but it's by the good pilots who come gunning for me because they know where the AA is. Good pilots can still own the AA, it's just the noobs who get blasted to toast.

Case in point: I was playing Wake the other day and I went 34-1 as an aviator. This is way better than I normally do. Why did I do so well then? The other team was too nubish to man the AA against me.

2nd Point: I was playing Wake today and manning the AA and a pilot named Reonuf (I think I got the spelling correctly) killed me 4 times in the AA before I could get a shot off. I finally shot him down when he neglected me to bomb another target. How did he own me so well? He made me (the AA) his #1 priority and never came at me the same way twice in a row. Hats off to you Reonuf wherever you are......you are a truly talented and creative flyboy.:salute:

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: For all plane whores.

So much for the 100% kill rate in real life. And if we would talking about Patriots....

STA shoot-to-hit rate isnt all that great.

Anyone has facts on ATA missile efficiency? (That isnt biased, because even Kattspyas material is.)

Re: For all plane whores.

Um... well, in real life, missles are near impossible to avoid, as they are faster and more manuverable than your jet. True, they won't be pulling any 90 degree turns, but they will be hitting your plane. Also, Jets don't ordinarily hang out at altitudes that a helicopter would find comftorable. Just have them fix the missles, instead of replacing them with "dumb" missles. (which acually equate to rockets.)

O RLY?

The SA-18 has a maximum range of 5200 meters and a maximum altitude of 3500 meters. The 9M39 missile SA-18 employs an IR guidance system using proportional convergence logic. The new seeker offers better protection against electro-optical jammers; the probability of kill against an unprotected fighter is estimated at 30-48%, and the use of IRCM jammers only degrades this to 24-30%.[
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/m.../row/sa-18.htm ]

Re: For all plane whores.

God help your patients, you can't even spell.

owned

Re: For all plane whores.

why topic still going on?

Jets own all air, Air to air missles are to easy for anyone, dogfight is dead, AA has to many problems, Flares do not work, end of topic

Re: For all plane whores.

Can I ask a serious question here? Well it's my thread, so I guess I will.

How do you jet whores really feel?

I mean woah.. DICE dropped your advantage in the air by a ton, and here's a few thoughts on why..

It's not merely that jets were too fast, or too well armoured, or too powerful.. but rather it involved the people IN them too. A few points to recognise are: 1. Many jet whores ended with mega high k/d ratios
2. Many jetwhores tk'd for vehicles.

There are other involving the flaws of these pilots, and PlaneWhore himself has displayed ass-hattery of a high level in assuming he was the best on the planet.. you know, because his jet with more armour than a humvee and a nose-cannon multiple times stronger than a .50 aswell as being able to avoid the (at the time) moronic, slow, and EASILY distracted SAM/A2A somewhat unfairly made him a veritable god in this game.

But now his game is ruined, and see how this infant and his kin sulk..

For the record, I've shot down more helicopters and jets now with both SAA and MAA since 1.2 released, than I ever had in the COMBINED releases prior.

I take great pleasure in sinking the guys who I've known superficially for 6 months as nothing but pilots, who would often end up with either a teamscore of 50+ (implying 50 kill assists) or 50 kills (gunners/jet pilots).

Yessir, the smile on my face when I send them crashing down, even to the point that the j-10's stopped taking off, and on kubra 1 match later, when the MIG and SU stayed grounded, and the Mi-28 never lived long enough to breathe down my neck; is un-matchable.

I've flown for a credible number of hours in jets, and after about 5 minutes of bombing runs and meaningless dogfights I bail out from boredom. How can you guys love this vehicle type so much? I mean, come on... the very notion of the repetition involved is so sad, I might as well walk into an uncap and sit infront of a tank for 20 minutes.. I'm sure after the 8th or 9th try there'd be some pretty creative methods (and comments AND questions) regarding my inevitable doom.

No more is this game dictated solely by air-power alone (although given my latest match on Op. Clean sweep, that statement loses credibility..) and no more will I fear you. With my PGZ, my Tunguska, my Linebacker, you will fear me now. You will fear me, because you know you really only have one chance at living, that now your game is about lightning quick, imprecise and (inevitably) ineffective strikes against what un-defended groupings you can find.

You know that so long as there's some two-bit noob in an AA somewhere your life is actually in danger, and your chances of soaring like a bolt of lightning is no more. You will be like rabbits among the eagles now.

The smart ones will quit flying, and switch to the other end of the stick. Become one of us.

But for the rest of you I ask: How does it feel?

I feel great!
I have kept flying the jet for quite a few hours since patch 1.2, and I wasn't taken down by any enemy ground missiles yet. I did get shot more by friendly ground missiles and enemy or firendly air-to-air missiles, but I'll survive.
My 25:1 KDR will drop a little, mainly because much more friendly fire, but it won't get much worse then that.
I'm not fearing enemy ground missiles, because I have my tactics to avoid it as much as one can.
So I die once or twice more in a round - others die 5 and 10 times more, so I can still get the jet again. I still have my 20:0, 30:0 rounds (but much less then before 1.2 obviously).
Thanks for the thought though

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: For all plane whores.

How about this to balance out the game. Everyone says there is skill in using a plane. No skill in using AA. So how about we just make the AA kinda like a TV-missile? Steer it like you would a TVmissile after so long and then when you see the plane you lock on to it. No 90 degree turns. No 180 degree turns. And the pilots will say there is some skill in taking down a pilot, as much as there is skill in dropping a bomb precisely on a target.

Even if they were just TV missiles without the lock at the end, people would get used to it like the plane. The plane was tough to get used to, like the TV bomb, but once everyone got used to it, it wasn't really a skill. So everyone will get used to these Anti-Air-TV-Missiles, and start taking the pilots out of the sky super easy. Pilots will start complaining that its too easy to take them out and that it takes no skill to click it to a plane. Just like there's no skill to drop a bomb (in some peoples minds).

Will this balance the game? Would you rather have inexperienced stinger launcher ppl, or experienced TV-missile ppl.

sure the TV missile thing for jets isn't that realistic, but neither is spawning 15 seconds after a death.

Theres a better idea. Keep the missiles at a 95% hit rate as long as you keep the "lock on" reticle on the target. In the area of the lock-on reticle the missile actively searches a target, essentially you make it to be a radar guided missile or laser locked, infrared seeking missile. Kind of like the Laser Guided Missiles in the bombers in BF2.

Heres how it should work in practice. You see a jet, you aim for the jet and release the missile. As long as you keep the missile in your visual range and on the aiming reticle, the missile is locked on to the target and it has a 90-95% hit rate. As soon as flares are dropped, missile looses the lock, it flies through the flares, looses the lock permanently and crashes as a dumb missile somewhere or flies off to nowhere.

This will also reduce TKs to a minimum level.

As with every idea, it has its own problems. Planes will have a little chance if they wont fly off the STA lock on sight area or wont use the flares (like now). So with the choppers. In the end people are going to master the use of it and become VERY good AAers. The TURN speed of the AA will have to be decreased so the jet and the chopper will have a chance to out maneuver the STA site.

The Mobile STAs wont have to suffer from the reduction of their turret speed, they should hovever have only 2 missile shots per reload, or a longer timeframe between the 4 shots. Also make the cannon more effective.

Of course people will have to actually BETATEST this **** and configure the timing, the movement speed of the turrets and such so everyone has a fair chance.

jakswan

So moving away from all the nonsense does anyone think that missiles exploding on contact with flares would improve things, would be a lot less TK's that's for sure.

flares have no mass. As already noted out by many. BUT, a proximity fuse would have solved ALL problems even in 1.12 time.

Re: For all plane whores.

Christopher noted m8, my fault.

So moving away from all the nonsense does anyone think that missiles exploding on contact with flares would improve things, would be a lot less TK's that's for sure.

Is their damage so great would it still hit a chopper that deployed, perhaps it needs a new thread.

Re: For all plane whores.

This thread has lost its original intent now.

All I will say is: Planewhore, if you want to tangle with me, name a time, and a server, and we can see. In the meantime, try developing on a personal level, your manner is a disgrace.

Re: For all plane whores.

How about this to balance out the game. Everyone says there is skill in using a plane. No skill in using AA. So how about we just make the AA kinda like a TV-missile? Steer it like you would a TVmissile after so long and then when you see the plane you lock on to it. No 90 degree turns. No 180 degree turns. And the pilots will say there is some skill in taking down a pilot, as much as there is skill in dropping a bomb precisely on a target.

Even if they were just TV missiles without the lock at the end, people would get used to it like the plane. The plane was tough to get used to, like the TV bomb, but once everyone got used to it, it wasn't really a skill. So everyone will get used to these Anti-Air-TV-Missiles, and start taking the pilots out of the sky super easy. Pilots will start complaining that its too easy to take them out and that it takes no skill to click it to a plane. Just like there's no skill to drop a bomb (in some peoples minds).

Will this balance the game? Would you rather have inexperienced stinger launcher ppl, or experienced TV-missile ppl.

sure the TV missile thing for jets isn't that realistic, but neither is spawning 15 seconds after a death.

Re: For all plane whores.

However I can supply you my SAT score (1500 out of 1600, 800 math and 700 verbal, with and whine about it.

OT: Jesus, 800 on the math! Nice score, I hope I do that well.
Back on topic: yeah the dumbfire missles would make the game fun. Like Desert Combat for BF42.

Re: For all plane whores.

Um... well, in real life, missles are near impossible to avoid, as they are faster and more manuverable than your jet. True, they won't be pulling any 90 degree turns, but they will be hitting your plane. Also, Jets don't ordinarily hang out at altitudes that a helicopter would find comftorable. Just have them fix the missles, instead of replacing them with "dumb" missles. (which acually equate to rockets.)

Re: For all plane whores.

There is a very simple solution to all of this.

Take this from a member of a top 5 team on the old TWL 2v2DC Air

Remove the seeker missiles completely and bring back the legitamate skill. Think about it if you has fast missiles that only fired straight. There would be no such thing as a lock that would be impossible to evade. Your missile would not get within 1" of the traget then pull a 90 degree turn and slam into a badly damaged helicopter awarding you 2 TKs for the games retardedness. Stingers would require the user to properly lead a target and you would have the same chance of killing the other plane that they do of you. Once you actually learn to lead the target you can hit the plane you are aiming at 90% of the time.

Not only that but dogfighting actually requires skill in manuvering again. You also arent totally screwed if youve already dropped flares and you have some noob on a stinger across the map who just got his timing right. Ever since I stopped playing DC and started playing BF2 these missiles have frustrated the hell out of me. I hate being right on someones tail knowing if the missiles would fire straight I could have killed someone 5 times over. Instead I watch them get within an inch of the other player and flake off making impossible turns and nailing teammates. People argue that not having seekers is not realistic but I've never seen a missile on TV do a sharp angled zigzag before...

While they are at it they can fix the hit reticle change on planes as well.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: For all plane whores.

Sorry jakswan, screw that misunderstanding, man I hate it when this happens. From now on call me Christopher!
(I have to note that I think PW has presented his arguments rather fine, compared to most of the people opposing him in an argumen)