The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

[DrJambo]

[ (Min Deviation * Stance) + (Additional Shots) ] * (Zoom Mod) + [(Recoil) * Recoil Zoom Mod] + Dev added for Forward/Strafe

Standing, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.45 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.52 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 10.0 Deviation

Standing, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.36 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.41 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.05 Deviation

Prone, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.40 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 4.0 Deviation

Prone, single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] = 0.24 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] = 0.32 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] = 0.02 Deviation

Strafing (standing), single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.65 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] + 0.6 = 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.5 = 1.02 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 10.2 Deviation

Strafing (standing), single shot, zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.5) + (0) ] * (0. 8 + [0 * 1] + 0.2= 0.56 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 3.0) + (0) ] * (1.0) + [0 * 1] + 0.6= 0.90 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.3) + (0) ] * (0.8) + [0 * 1] + 0.5= 0.91 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 2) + (0) ] * (0.005) + [0 * 1] +0.2 = 0.25 Deviation

Data taken from this chart http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56385

• Now, tell me the new Support kit with the PKM (and also arguably the MG36) isn't unbalanced...
  
• And where does assault kit, particularly with the G3, fit into all of this?

[Fumang]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

heh .............I used the ak47 and the g3 against a pkm.............result I lost every single time 1 on 1 both in prone positions.........

I guess the Pkm is the new noob gun then

[munky99999]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

Prone, single shot, not zoomed
M16A2: [ (0.3 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.30 Deviation
PKM [ (0.1 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.08 Deviation
G3 [ (0.4 * 1.0) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 0.40 Deviation
L96A1/M24 [ (5 * 0.8) + (0) ] * (1) + [0 * 1] = 4.0 Deviation

L96A1 with a 4.0???? i think its you guys who are off.

[Digital-Boy]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

L96A1 with a 4.0???? i think its you guys who are off.

Read the header: prone, single shot, not zoomed.

[SK]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

That´s not zoomed. Sniper rifles have a horrible min deviation of 5.0 when not zoomed, only by zooming in the zoom modifier of 0.005 gets multiplied to the 5.0, resulting in very low deviation then.

[Tobacco]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

heh .............I used the ak47 and the g3 against a pkm.............result I lost every single time 1 on 1 both in prone positions.........

I guess the Pkm is the new noob gun then

Try the G36C, It's the only gun I've found to be effective(at close range) against the Support Class. Now that I can't jump and shoot the DAO is pretty useless against Proner PKM/MG36 users. The G36C has a very accurate 3-4Shot Burst that slaps the Support right in the face. PKM rips through Blackhawks like Butter . I could go on and on about what has become a joke of a game, but I'm sure you all know that so I won't waste your time.



T

[Veng3ance]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

I think the support class is MUCH better. In fact I think ALL the weapons should be more powerful. I want to kill is guy in 1-3 shots max, not 5-6 shots currently. I want MORE REALISIM

[Reign.]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

Im ok with the support class being feared. I just want them too fix the Claymores.

Oh and the MG36 owns the PKM and prior to 1.2 I was a PKM whore.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

THe data above is incomplete.. As the last two entries show, the deviation of the PKm increase dramatically whne ever the gun moves. And moving the gun is a necessity when following alot of targets in BF2....

Basicly that list, if complete, would show great balance between the PKM and other assult rifles... THe SUpport weapons are not accurate when having to follow targets or STRAFE, while the lighter, smaller assult rifles really gain an advatage when fired while strafing...

Add the fact that the Support player really does need to be prone to get the best accuracy, plus the fact that they can't strafe with much accuracy, and that their head is the main target while prone, and you will see that they are very much balanced with the assault class that can move(strafe) and maintain greater accuacy without going prone..

The G3 should be a less accurate weapon than the PKM... I am sure if you looked up the reeal life stats it would show the PKM to be a far superior killing weapons compared to the G3..

[DrJambo]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

Cornbread, strafing's not just moving the gun while firing as you suggest, rather strafing is where the player physically moves side to side and fires. Therefore your example of balance is bogus I'm afraid.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

Cornbread, strafing's not just moving the gun while firing as you suggest, rather strafing is where the player physically moves side to side and fires. Therefore your example of balance is bogus I'm afraid.

Go fire any gun and watch the devfiation increase while moving the gun side to side; this is very noticeable while using the crosshairs, as the crosshair spread as you move the gun side to side, strafe.... So my point is not bogus...

[x.Dead_Eye_42.x]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

LMGs are meant to rip through infantry. before the patch, they couldnt hit the boradside of a barn from 50m away. Now they have been brought up to the level they should be at.

try playing the class for a while: did it ever occur to you that the reason you lost was because you suck? "but i am teh l337 pwnz0r theres no way theres someone better than me..."

Tactics to counter:
try flanking them. when zoomed you have a very narrow FOV, making it easy to be shot from your flanks.

use your initiative and get behind decent cover. The pkm cant shoot through everything.

use the G3. it owns the pkm with better rate of fire and same # of shots to kill.

just my humble opinion. the game is balanced now.

p.s why are you complaining about classes that are too good when i have gotten the "best engineer score" on the map with 5 points. moral: engy needs a better shotty

[DrJambo]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

The thing is it's not the accuracy of the PKM/MG36 which I dislike. It feels right and it's satisfying to use. It's the fact that it clearly outclasses most of the other weapons including the assault's G3. Ideally, what I'd really like to see is the accuracy of the other weapons improved.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

The thing is it's not the accuracy of the PKM/MG36 which I dislike. It feels right and it's satisfying to use. It's the fact that it clearly outclasses most of the other weapons including the assault's G3. Ideally, what I'd really like to see is the accuracy of the other weapons improved.

I'd much rather have the accuracy of other weapons improved, rather than having the PKM and MG36 accuracy decreased... So i am on your side there..

But what i am trying to figure out is, if the G3 or other assault rifles are naturally more accurate, for single shot or even full auto, than the PKM or MG36..

I can imagine that a single shot fired from a PKM could be rather accurate.. It is a long barreled rifle in a sense, and has solid weight to counter recoil from the same 7.62 round that the lighter G3 fires..

[Wild_Wokman]

Re: The new 1.2 Support kit - facts and figures:

I agree with Dead EYE! The PKM has a bipod and should be somewhat accurate at least on the first round. These are heavy barreled weapons designed to kill you very quickly. That is why their are M203 and grenades. Hell in WW2, a good machine gun nest could keep a whole platoon pinned down. This is war you should be killed very quickly if you are a Rambo, and rushing around in the open.