Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

content that has a very high probability of appearing in redfield's next post.

redfield : waaaahhhhh *whine* "i want prolonged dogfights" *insert lots of technical bull$hit here on how the A2A should be changed* *whine some more* *kiss buttbuddies' a$$e$* *whine some more*

and still no game handle from someone who claims "to know what he's talking about".

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I would've whipped out the dogfighting if a pilot worthy of such an activity had surfaced during that round. Even then, I shot down the bomber plenty of times. That's still dogfighting, but as the video shows I downed the bomber in seconds with ease using cannons and missiles, and that's how most of my regular dogfights went which is why I can't help but laugh when people call 1.12 dogfighting impossible.

Baseraping is something some people agree with and some don't. I'm not up for a BF2 ethic gaming debate, but bottom line is I've always been baseraped (or people have attempted to, at the very least), and I've always based raped right back. If it wasn't meant to be part of the game, bases wouldn't have AA installations.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Are you actually believing the crap you're writing here planewhore? Your super-l33t bombing video you posted once perfectly shows that I'm totally right. I watched both parts of it and you never ever had to be forced to bother with AA stuff and you never ever had to perform one of your l33t evasive maneuvers to dodge missiles. Your own video proofs that I'm right with my complaints about AA pre 1.2.

And my score and average values tell you a piece of **** how I die and through what I die. The only thing you know is, that I'm no selfish whore who thinks he deserves the right to do everything and to claim planes just because he can bitch other people on a public game.

Your attitude is pretty pathetic for someone who claims to be teh m05t 1337 pilot ever.

And the fact that you complain so much that you start to die now really let me doubt that you have any skill in piloting at all. Or are you just one of those retards that can't stand a challenge and can't loose once in a while? Well, both isn't really improving you.

If you can't stand competition you might consider looking for a different game. Maybe an offline game so you don't have to be bothered with all of us n00bs.

I've made my point clear in my both previous posts and only because you reject the points I raised they aren't less worthy for the majority of BF2 gamers.

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

TOo much egotistical drivel to trawel through on the whole, however, a couple of noteworthy points:

• PW, if you're still getting 70-0 or 70-1 or whatever in 1.2, then how are we supposed to believe comments from you and others on the anti 1.2 camp which go along the lines of the following: "Any noob can kill a skilled pilot," and "Dogfighting is deskilled"?
  
• Furthermore, you've alleged that "randomness" now plays a large part of dogfighting encounters in 1.2... Again that doesn't fit with the 70-1 ratio I'm afraid. It would appear that skilled pilots still dominate.
  
• It would appear that the J-10 being the superior plane is clearly a bigger balance problem than anything else and yet hasn't warranted any noteworthy attention...
  
• Like Mandos, my kill:death ratio in a plane is around the 3:1 ratio and similar to him I'd argue that hardly any of these deaths under 1.12 were due to AA sites. I use a mouse and keyboard and other than the painful learning the map and learning to fly period, most of my deaths have since come from crashes as I run out of space to move my mouse! That or crashing into helos! lol

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Are you actually believing the crap you're writing here planewhore? Your super-l33t bombing video you posted once perfectly shows that I'm totally right. I watched both parts of it and you never ever had to be forced to bother with AA stuff and you never ever had to perform one of your l33t evasive maneuvers to dodge missiles. Your own video proofs that I'm right with my complaints about AA pre 1.2.

And my score and average values tell you a piece of **** how I die and through what I die. The only thing you know is, that I'm no selfish whore who thinks he deserves the right to do everything and to claim planes just because he can bitch other people on a public game.

Your attitude is pretty pathetic for someone who claims to be teh m05t 1337 pilot ever.

And the fact that you complain so much that you start to die now really let me doubt that you have any skill in piloting at all. Or are you just one of those retards that can't stand a challenge and can't loose once in a while? Well, both isn't really improving you.

If you can't stand competition you might consider looking for a different game. Maybe an offline game so you don't have to be bothered with all of us n00bs.

I've made my point clear in my both previous posts and only because you reject the points I raised they aren't less worthy for the majority of BF2 gamers.

Planewhore is an arrogant fsck but IMO he has a right to be until someone both literally and figuratively shoots him down. From what I've gathered of his videos he is highly skilled. Most of his critics have a worse KD in the plane than my gunner has in the helo and then we aren't even talking about KPM.

If you kill three (3) persons every time you get into the plane and get's shot down every 4.7 minutes your argument's hold little weight as far as I'm concerned. Hell even I beat you in a stats fight and I'm mediocre at best. If a real pilot gets in the air I'm toast. Fortuneately there is a real lack of truly good pilots. Most of them can barely use the cannon to take out AA emplacements.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

you never ever had to perform one of your l33t evasive maneuvers to dodge missiles. Your own video proofs that I'm right with my complaints about AA pre 1.2.

A little more of my experience kicking in. In an F-35B in 1.12 the best way to evade the majority of missiles was an upwards loop. That is unique to the F-35B, as the VTOL bleeds over to its flight profile and helps it climb up faster. Again, 3:1 K/D ratio versus 100:1 (actual more like 500:1) K/D ratio. You're a little below average Mandos, and if dodging all missiles was as easy as "turning hard" then don't you think you'd be doing a little better than a 3:1? Again, a little ridiculous of a statement for you to make.

If you can't stand competition you might consider looking for a different game. Maybe an offline game so you don't have to be bothered with all of us n00bs.

Actually I can't stand what DICE had done to the competitive spirit of dogfighting and piloting in general. The competition is gone, and what used to require skill, strategy,and technique, now requires random variables to favor a particular pilot, luck, and good old fashion J-10 whoring. When you boil it down, in 1.12 I was never beat in a 1 on 1 dogfight, and I could shoot down planes very easily myself. What does that tell you? Now in 1.2, I'm lucid enough to realize an average pilot with a better plane and the slightest bit of competence can down me.

• PW, if you're still getting 70-0 or 70-1 or whatever in 1.2, then how are we supposed to believe comments from you and others on the anti 1.2 camp which go along the lines of the following: "Any noob can kill a skilled pilot," and "Dogfighting is deskilled"?
• Furthermore, you've alleged that "randomness" now plays a large part of dogfighting encounters in 1.2... Again that doesn't fit with the 70-1 ratio I'm afraid. It would appear that skilled pilots still dominate.
• It would appear that the J-10 being the superior plane is clearly a bigger balance problem than anything else and yet hasn't warranted any noteworthy attention...
• Like Mandos, my kill:death ratio in a plane is around the 3:1 ratio and similar to him I'd argue that hardly any of these deaths under 1.12 were due to AA sites. I use a mouse and keyboard and other than the painful learning the map and learning to fly period, most of my deaths have since come from crashes as I run out of space to move my mouse! That or crashing into helos! lol

I can still get 70-0 or 70-1, however it takes every ounce of my piloting experience to do so (experience, not skill), but I've got to use my experience to set the variables so that they favor me. How does one go about this? Well, the first step, and the most important is to get in a J-10. The second, is to make extra sure when you're on China that you've got a stacked up team. And the third, is to never leave friendly skies (play ultra-defensive) and let the enemy pilots get bored come in to your kill zone. Of course, another thing that can almost assure you don't die is to fly high and far away till you've got flares, and once you've popped flares retreat till they've reloaded. Of course, this relates directly back to "Highway to the Boredom zone". Nothing fun about flying a holding pattern waiting for your flares to magically recycle.

These are the reason you still see the old pilots doing well, is that they know how to exploit piloting circumstances to the fullest. But then you must ask yourself how much skill does clicking the Chinese tab take? How much skill does not flying over a certain area of the map take? Before, all that mattered was pure dogfighting ability, technique, and yes plain old twitch skill. That is why a select group of pilots could dominate the sky without question in 1.2 without resorting to these silly little hide and go seek games.

[LoKi.]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

This is just for you havoc, here is a couple of screenshots of your beloved play off Semi-final CAL pilot getting shot down by myslef...

Now dont get me wrong hes a decent pilot but if i can shoot him down with relative ease in this patch then something is very wrong...

I'm just a slightly above average pilot as you can see my k/d ratio with planes my account has never been fantastic coz I have been more about score whoring than k/d ratio thus I crashed alot of helis and raped alot of carriers with live essex guns when I should have really taken them out 1st

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5813004366.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5812595396.jpg&s=x402

Im not dissin cherry in anyway hes probably a cool guy but was the only CAL semi-final pilot I could find online at the moment, if I can shoot him down pretty easily then PlaneWhore would be raping his behind effortlessly.

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Well put Mondos, nice post.

Here is a edited version of 'PlaneWhore the Movie', I only needed to scan the first few minutes to give me what I wanted, sad really.

He's good at bombing I'll give him that, but it's just milking the system as far as I'm concerned.

http://media.putfile.com/Battlefield2-what-112-became

This video is just obscene and from my experience this was how most pilots played the game - basic evasion manoeuvres to avoid dogfighting and then concentrating on point whoring by predominantly baseraping (just as depicted in this video).

Incidently it was interesting that Gulf of Oman was the map in video as I found this to be the worst map for baseraping.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

If you kill three (3) persons every time you get into the plane and get's shot down every 4.7 minutes your argument's hold little weight as far as I'm concerned. Hell even I beat you in a stats fight and I'm mediocre at best.

So, if you don't think my arguments are worth anything because I don't whore on 64 player servers, than I would like to hear what you think I'm wrong with.

• Do you think AA was good in v1.12?
• Do you think A2A combat was exciting and worth its efforts in v1.12?
• Do you think jets have become easy pickings with v1.2 and/or jets have become inferior?
• Anything else I'm messing up so wrongfully here?

I know PlaneWhore's opinion on this which I don't share, but I'm curious what you would point out where my arguments can't stand because of my K/D ratio.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

.
I can still get 70-0 or 70-1, however it takes every ounce of my piloting experience to do so (experience, not skill), but I've got to use my experience to set the variables so that they favor me. How does one go about this? Well, the first step, and the most important is to get in a J-10. The second, is to make extra sure when you're on China that you've got a stacked up team. And the third, is to never leave friendly skies (play ultra-defensive) and let the enemy pilots get bored come in to your kill zone. Of course, another thing that can almost assure you don't die is to fly high and far away till you've got flares, and once you've popped flares retreat till they've reloaded.

you summarized it yourself, above is 50% skill involved in dogfight, the other 50% is break the lock in the 3 seconds you have been given and gain a better position. I fail to see how 1.2 A2A doesn't take skill.

If anything, 1.2 makes skill level more appearent. Dogfight ends in seconds between pro and noob pilots, last considerablly longer between better pilots but will eventually end in a kill. I still cannot shot down pilots who is better than me pre-patch.

[LoKi.]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

So, if you don't think my arguments are worth anything because I don't whore on 64 player servers, than I would like to hear what you think I'm wrong with.

• Do you think AA was good in v1.12?
• Do you think A2A combat was exciting and worth its efforts in v1.12?
• Do you think jets have become easy pickings with v1.2 and/or jets have become inferior?
• Anything else I'm messing up so wrongfully here?

I know PlaneWhore's opinion on this which I don't share, but I'm curious what you would point out where my arguments can't stand because of my K/D ratio.

1) I think AA was fine in 1.12 vs choppers... jets were a bit harder but if you know what you were doing and were tactfull and patient you could get them. Besides the only people on the map that should even be trying to shoot down planes with an IGLA\Stinger should be the people that are being baseraped on airfields waiting for thier jet to respawn once they are up they can shoot them down. If you were the type of noob that sat on the same stinger all day shooting at jets chances are your gonna get sniped or taken out by a tank bofore a plane is anywhere in sight.

2) Yes I liked nothing better than to take a F-35B or F-18 and shoot down pilots who thought they were good, names that come to mind [3MEB]CoL.Kam[v], Zippor, Flares, Unholymasterofwar and so on...

3) No if anything jets have become even stonger than before as the Helis are stupidly weak i.e. they die in seconds and its possible to down an enemy jet in seconds and get back to raping the ground.

This only really applies to the MEC/PLA jets USMC now have the short end of the stick with thier inferior Aircraft. A good pilot could make up for the difference in the aircraft in 1.12 now its virtually impossible and any noob in a MEC/PLA plane can down an enemy jet.

4) Yet to be decided

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

This is just for you havoc, here is a couple of screenshots of your beloved play off Semi-final CAL pilot getting shot down by myslef...

Now dont get me wrong hes a decent pilot but if i can shoot him down with relative ease in this patch then something is very wrong...

I'm just a slightly above average pilot as you can see my k/d ratio with planes my account has never been fantastic coz I have been more about score whoring than k/d ratio thus I crashed alot of helis and raped alot of carriers with live essex guns when I should have really taken them out 1st

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5813004366.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=2/5812595396.jpg&s=x402

Im not dissin cherry in anyway hes probably a cool guy but was the only CAL semi-final pilot I could find online at the moment, if I can shoot him down pretty easily then PlaneWhore would be raping his behind effortlessly.

sure, you "claim" to have shot cherry down, but without a video, your screenshots prove nothing. for all i know, you could have used your bombs. in fact, one of the pics clearly shows you near the carrier which could either mean you just dropped your bombs or you took out cherry while he was taking off. assuming that you even shot him down, BR1 may be a 10-0 team, but that doesn't mean cherry is their best pilot. even if cherry is their best pilot, do you see him or any other CAL pilot whining here or on the CAL forums that he was shot down by a lesser skilled player. i don't. the only pu$$ie$ who have been b!tching the most since 1.2 was released is planewhore and redfield.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

...

This is proof positive to me that Loki knows exactly what he is talking about. You see all of the experienced players saying the same exact thing. Regardless though, all the more experienced players agree that dogfighting doesn't take nearly as much skill as it used to, a fraction in fact.

More importantly, and I'm glad Loki emphasises as much as I do is that the J-10 has become hugely overpowered in 1.2. Before it was an annoyance to the better pilots, but as Loki said, a skilled pilot could overcome that plane imbalance through raw talent and pure skill. Now in 1.2, it doesn't matter how good or how terrible you are the J-10 is a guaranteed win every single dogfight.

This points out the greater issue that a lock should not equal a win, and when it does the slightest factor that the pilots have absolutely no control over can win or lose a dogfight.

1.12 AA was far from broken. It could hit planes quite a bit even in my hands (J-10 excluded), and if you were patient and waited for the right shot you connect quite often with the missiles. As my video also pointed out, at least in 1.12 even if you failed to kill the plane you'd force it to retreat, and at that point you can hop out of the stinger, move back a few feet, and let the pilot attack it, hop back in and continue to harrass him. That only applies to ground AA though as both Essex gun, plane AA, and mobile AA all could kick massive amounts of ass no questions asked.

[Flares]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

After skimming through the thread, I watched the video... There's nothing impressive to watch, none of those pilots being shot down had skill. The J10 has always been the ultimate noob machine, and flying one on Wake is still little different to pre 1.2. Unless you're very unlucky, you're guaranteed an excellent personal score and a team win.
The air to air missiles are now more effective, giving an average pilot a slightly increased chance of shooting down an enemy plane if they catch you being lazy or out of countermeasures, and that's fair to me. Play on a decent server with good pilots on both sides, and players who bother to man the SAM systems with ground protection, and you've got a game on.
Just like pre 1.2, lack of balance because of player experience weighted to one side is the main deciding factor, but it's now probably exaggerated more now than before.
This was demonstrated this morning in Kubra Dam on an EA UK 64 player ranked server. I jumped in the Mig-29, and whilst waiting for the schmuck standing in front of me to move was blown away on the ground by the F18. Second time lucky, I took off, shot down the F18 and F15 easily. They didn't get past their airfield perimeter again. 40-1. Nothing to do with excellent missiles and everything to do with average pilots on the opposing team. Gaining and maintaining air superiority was easy, leaving our SU34 crew to thrash the ground forces and MEC won by 100+ tickets. USMC players were starting kick votes, insulting me :cry: and crying for admins, but life's a bitch.
A round or two later, I sat on the ford river crossing at the centre island on Dragon Valley with a mobile AAA (plus supply box near me at all times) and joined a squad with a a guy in the nearby Igla implacement. Not one Blackhawk, Cobra, F35 or UAV got past us. Against decent pilots, together we should've been toasted, but instead the Chinese team won easily.
The game's not been nerfed. Now decent pilots have to be more wary of SAMs and check their six more often (fair). Bad pilots need to smarten up fast or stay bad pilots (fair) and occasionally a bad pilot will get lucky and catch out a decent pilot (fair).
The intensity of the air war has increased significantly and that can only be good for the game.
The only issues for me are; the missiles veering off, flying across the map and hitting a friendly, usually a helicopter. Less of a problem pre 1.2, but now the aircraft are weaker, this has turned into a far worse problem than before and needs to be fixed. Plus, the helos are now far too easy to be shot down, and this is from a jet pilot and helo passenger's point of view, rather than an attack helo pilot's.


EDIT: lmao @ Loki.. I really enjoyed our first encounter on Oman, you crashing three times into the ground trying to shake me... :) . The resulting banter and your sense of humour failure was probably the best part

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

This is proof positive to me that Loki knows exactly what he is talking about. You see all of the experienced players saying the same exact thing. Regardless though, all the more experienced players agree that dogfighting doesn't take nearly as much skill as it used to, a fraction in fact.

More importantly, and I'm glad Loki emphasises as much as I do is that the J-10 has become hugely overpowered in 1.2. Before it was an annoyance to the better pilots, but as Loki said, a skilled pilot could overcome that plane imbalance through raw talent and pure skill. Now in 1.2, it doesn't matter how good or how terrible you are the J-10 is a guaranteed win every single dogfight.

This points out the greater issue that a lock should not equal a win, and when it does the slightest factor that the pilots have absolutely no control over can win or lose a dogfight.

1.12 AA was far from broken. It could hit planes quite a bit even in my hands (J-10 excluded), and if you were patient and waited for the right shot you connect quite often with the missiles. As my video also pointed out, at least in 1.12 even if you failed to kill the plane you'd force it to retreat, and at that point you can hop out of the stinger, move back a few feet, and let the pilot attack it, hop back in and continue to harrass him. That only applies to ground AA though as both Essex gun, plane AA, and mobile AA all could kick massive amounts of ass no questions asked.

Are you retarded? Did you even read my post? Do you even know how to fly? (Besides hitting unmanuvering noobs, that is).

Pre 1.2 J10 was overpowered because twitch skill was the only thing in dogfight, now it's more even because JSF can use its speed to break lock.

lock DOES NOT EQUAL KILL. I have dodged missile by slowing down and doing barrel roles (2 out of 3), and I can usually break people's lock by a simple split S (with some of manuver before that)