Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

No, I didn't read your post, and I wasn't responding to your post either, retard.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

A little more of my experience kicking in. In an F-35B in 1.12 the best way to evade the majority of missiles was an upwards loop. That is unique to the F-35B, as the VTOL bleeds over to its flight profile and helps it climb up faster. Again, 3:1 K/D ratio versus 100:1 (actual more like 500:1) K/D ratio. You're a little below average Mandos, and if dodging all missiles was as easy as "turning hard" then don't you think you'd be doing a little better than a 3:1? Again, a little ridiculous of a statement for you to make.

You could dodge every missile in every Jet with a simple loop. I did that too as it was the fastest and easiest way to get rid off them. That's why so many people were complaining about AA before 1.2. It's been too easy!

And regarding to my K/D ratio (again ): it's not as high as yours because

• I'm not flying as much as you do
• Unlike you, I don't play exclusively on 64 player servers, thus I have less targets and not every strafe/bombing run brings kills with it
• Most of my death are due to mistakes made by me, like ramming a helicopter while trying to shoot it down, collisions with other jets while performing maneuvers or accidents happening during bombing/strafe runs.
• I think the most fun of BF2 is air-to-air combat, so I don't try to get as many kills as possible with bombing/strafing but to get as much dogfights as possible. That leads to less kills again and of course I do loose dogfights too.

Actually I can't stand what DICE had done to the competitive spirit of dogfighting and piloting in general. The competition is gone, and what used to require skill, strategy,and technique, now requires random variables to favor a particular pilot, luck, and good old fashion J-10 whoring.

Well, I guess that's a matter of taste, but there's still a competitive spirit of dogfighting. It just has changed to a faster and more deadly competitive style compared to v1.12, which I do like more.

When you boil it down, in 1.12 I was never beat in a 1 on 1 dogfight, and I could shoot down planes very easily myself. What does that tell you? Now in 1.2, I'm lucid enough to realize an average pilot with a better plane and the slightest bit of competence can down me.

That tells me, that you obviously need to change your fighting style a bit or your attitude. Getting killed is a part of this game and that's true for every aspect of BF2. Now jets included and the challenge moved to prevent your enemy to get a good lock on you at all. You probably have noticed, that no missile hits when your relatively close to your opponent and he's maneouvering. That's where the autocannon in A2A combat takes place again.

Pre 1.2 the autocannon was your only real tool for A2A combat, which was a waste of potential.

I can still get 70-0 or 70-1, however it takes every ounce of my piloting experience to do so (experience, not skill),

Experience is what makes a huge part of skill, thus you have to use your skill to stay with your old score. So actually, you should be happy now that you have to use so much more skill than before... .

but I've got to use my experience to set the variables so that they favor me. How does one go about this? Well, the first step, and the most important is to get in a J-10. The second, is to make extra sure when you're on China that you've got a stacked up team. And the third, is to never leave friendly skies (play ultra-defensive) and let the enemy pilots get bored come in to your kill zone. Of course, another thing that can almost assure you don't die is to fly high and far away till you've got flares, and once you've popped flares retreat till they've reloaded. Of course, this relates directly back to "Highway to the Boredom zone". Nothing fun about flying a holding pattern waiting for your flares to magically recycle.

For me, most of what you wrote sounds like you have to take a few tactical decisions now. That adds dept to the game which improves its potentional fun factor. If you don't like the way your tactical decisions influence your gaming experience, you might want to try to change your decisions and fly a more aggressive style.

Unless you insist on not dying of course.

How much skill does not flying over a certain area of the map take? Before, all that mattered was pure dogfighting ability, technique, and yes plain old twitch skill. That is why a select group of pilots could dominate the sky without question in 1.2 without resorting to these silly little hide and go seek games.

Those "silly little hide and go seek games" are tactical decisions you have to make while in the air. Ground forces have to do that too, why shouldn't planes need to do that? That's a part of your "skill" and adds dept, fun and thrill to it imo.

Moreover every other unit in BF2 has to think about where it is going too. Or do you think a tank or helicopter can go where ever it wants to be without getting killed? Nope, it can't...

[Alcorr]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Thank goodness DICE doesn't have retards like you on their development team, or else, the AA would have to be guided in too like the AT rockets.

OMG....actually a system where you guide the AA missiles to thier target, at least to where they are close to thier target would be good.

Once they are within say 30M it would auto lock like it does now.

That would at least involve skill....

That tells me, that you obviously need to change your fighting style a bit or your attitude. Getting killed is a part of this game and that's true for every aspect of BF2. Now jets included and the challenge moved to prevent your enemy to get a good lock on you at all. You probably have noticed, that no missile hits when your relatively close to your opponent and he's maneouvering. That's where the autocannon in A2A combat takes place again.

Pre 1.2 the autocannon was your only real tool for A2A combat, which was a waste of potential.

The problem is that now....me...yes Alcorr...the guy that sucks at flying jets and uses the mouse...can easily down planewhore....is that because of his tactics?

No, its because I have zero talent and skill but because of the noobish missles, I can easily down even the best pilots.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Pre 1.2 J10 was overpowered because twitch skill was the only thing in dogfight, now it's more even because JSF can use its speed to break lock.

LOL. Please do some research on planes. Speed difference between J-10 and F35B goes like this.

J-10 > F35B non-afterburner speed
1100>1020

J-10 < F35B afterburner speed
1320 < 1420

Heres something other to chew on.

Full roll time (motion where a plane makes a full roll)

F35B- 3 seconds, 2 if the afterburner is used
J-10- 3 sconds, 2.5 if the afterburner is used

Full loop time (time when the full loop is completed)

F35B- 7 seconds, 6 if AB is equipped
J-10- 6 seconds, 5 if AB is equipped

Now the most painful part.

Afterburner timer-

J-10- 13 seconds
F35B- 10 seconds

Reaction delay

F35B- 0 seconds, jet moves as soon as you command
J-10- ~1 second, jet moves apprx 1 second after you command


What we get from here is painfully obvious. A F35 cannot outspeed a J-10, it cant outmaneuver it using conventional methods. It has to rely on its fast reaction time (ie. make many quick turns in succession).

SPEED TO BREAK LOCK?! LOL, Jesus Christ!

You know WHY its easy for a MiG to track a F35B? Because its so much slower than F35B. F wooshes ahead of MiG, giving MiG both the overview and the distance to ollow through all F35Bs maneuvers while keeping it in a solid lock.

And no, F35B cannot outrun J-10. Its life expectancy drops to nothing after 10 seconds of running because J-10 will be close by with additional 3 second timer left.

Also, research on the barrel roll mission drop technique made by a member here, who posted it up aswell, shows that barrel rolls dont work. You can break someones lock by split S for a short period of time, however, if that guy has a J-10, and you have a F-35B, expect to be locked on to as soon as you leave the 3rd quarter of the turn.

lock DOES NOT EQUAL KILL. I have dodged missile by slowing down and doing barrel roles (2 out of 3), and I can usually break people's lock by a simple split S (with some of manuver before that)

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

OMG....actually a system where you guide the AA missiles to thier target, at least to where they are close to thier target would be good.

Once they are within say 30M it would auto lock like it does now.

That would at least involve skill....



The problem is that now....me...yes Alcorr...the guy that sucks at flying jets and uses the mouse...can easily down planewhore....is that because of his tactics?

No, its because I have zero talent and skill but because of the noobish missles, I can easily down even the best pilots.

or planewhore, with all his super 1337ness, can try to do a Split S and break the lock. I fail to see how diffcult that would be.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Once more people:
Prepatch- you had to chase and create missile use opportunities.
Post patch- you need to chase someone for 3 seconds.

A pilot must have a chance post launch. Thats the point.

And loops as evasion maneuvers? Thats where the cannons came in, and when you had a jet with superior loop time, it isnt your place to be there at all.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

The problem is that now....me...yes Alcorr...the guy that sucks at flying jets and uses the mouse...can easily down planewhore....is that because of his tactics?

No, its because I have zero talent and skill but because of the noobish missles, I can easily down even the best pilots.

I have no clue whether you really owned planewhore or not, but if you did, yes, I definitely would say you got him because of his lack of tactics and skill. rotfl :laugh: Someone using a mouse/keayboard combo has far more drawbacks than someone using a joystick, which planewhore does, thus having far better chances to break the lock than his persuer to keep the lock.

But hey, no idea what you experienced with planwhore.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Once more people:
Prepatch- you had to chase and create missile use opportunities.
Post patch- you need to chase someone for 3 seconds.

A pilot must have a chance post launch. Thats the point.

And loops as evasion maneuvers? Thats where the cannons came in, and when you had a jet with superior loop time, it isnt your place to be there at all.

looks like you ignored the energy aspect of air combat. cannon cannot follow the looping planes unless you are really, really good. If you get shot down by someone like that, you probably shouldn't diss his skills.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

LOL. Please do some research on planes. Speed difference between J-10 and F35B goes like this.

J-10 > F35B non-afterburner speed
1100>1020

J-10 < F35B afterburner speed
1320 < 1420

Heres something other to chew on.

Full roll time (motion where a plane makes a full roll)

F35B- 3 seconds, 2 if the afterburner is used
J-10- 3 sconds, 2.5 if the afterburner is used

Full loop time (time when the full loop is completed)

F35B- 7 seconds, 6 if AB is equipped
J-10- 6 seconds, 5 if AB is equipped

Now the most painful part.

Afterburner timer-

J-10- 13 seconds
F35B- 10 seconds

Reaction delay

F35B- 0 seconds, jet moves as soon as you command
J-10- ~1 second, jet moves apprx 1 second after you command


What we get from here is painfully obvious. A F35 cannot outspeed a J-10, it cant outmaneuver it using conventional methods. It has to rely on its fast reaction time (ie. make many quick turns in succession).

SPEED TO BREAK LOCK?! LOL, Jesus Christ!

You know WHY its easy for a MiG to track a F35B? Because its so much slower than F35B. F wooshes ahead of MiG, giving MiG both the overview and the distance to ollow through all F35Bs maneuvers while keeping it in a solid lock.

And no, F35B cannot outrun J-10. Its life expectancy drops to nothing after 10 seconds of running because J-10 will be close by with additional 3 second timer left.

Also, research on the barrel roll mission drop technique made by a member here, who posted it up aswell, shows that barrel rolls dont work. You can break someones lock by split S for a short period of time, however, if that guy has a J-10, and you have a F-35B, expect to be locked on to as soon as you leave the 3rd quarter of the turn.

lock DOES NOT EQUAL KILL. I have dodged missile by slowing down and doing barrel roles (2 out of 3), and I can usually break people's lock by a simple split S (with some of manuver before that)

doesn't matter. I can outrun the J10 with burner. My speed will usually maintain for another 2 seconds.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Mandos, no offense, I applaud your effort at making sense, but do you have some sort of gas leaking in to your current location that is killing brain cells at a steadily accelerating rate? You might want to open a window.. or something.

Mandos, I can tell you're not a Vulcan, because clearly logical reasoning and deduction is not one of your strong points.

Mandos, if you dodged every single missile with a simple loop then you'd have a much better K/D ratio. Fact is a simple loop doesn't work in all situations, and is really only a good technique in the F-35B. Dodging A2A missiles is a completely different matter, if I caught your newbie arse spinning in 360 loops trying to escape I'd be thinking "Mmmm, free kill".

Playing on a 64 player has nothing to do with Kill Death ratio. In fact, you'll have a much fewer deaths on smaller servers because the enemy has far less players to man all of the AA sites. In 64 player servers it isn't uncommon for the enemy to have 3 or 4 AA sites manned the entire round, add on that the two planes, a Mobile AA, and you've got a tough situation to survive in 1.12, and near impossible in 1.2.

Crashing is something that happens to all pilots, especially the air to air kind. You think I'm some sort of special case and immune to crashes? In fact, crashing, collisions and the sort are an obstacle that is unique to planes, and to a lesser extent helicopters. Just another con to airplanes as a vehicle, and just because it isn't a player that hasn't killed you doesn't mean that death didn't count.

I play to win, and that's all. If dogfighting helps my team when then I'll dogfight, and if basing raping helps then I'll do that too.

Past that Mandos, I can't continue to comment on your post, it really is mind numbing, again no offense. I honestly don't know why I even bother because it is clear that you are not even close to being on my level of intelligent thought, and I've had countless PMs now from random people begging me to stop tormenting myself trying to explain seemingly simple concepts to some of the simple people that inhabit these forums. All of your dogfighting commentary is either misleading, misrepresented or false. You clearly didn't play enough 1.12 as a pilot because if you had you'd be reaching the same conclusions I have. Listen, I can't blame you, I understand you're having more fun piloting now that everything is so much easier, but I'm not having more fun, and neither are the select group of people that enjoyed our romp at the top of the good chain. 1.2 has succeed in boring me and annoying me by dragging me down to the piloting level of the common pleb.

With that being said, I'm going to go whore some PKM now, bye.

[LoKi.]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

OMG wtf are you talking about the board gun was great fun in 1.12, shooting planes while they were turning was not hard unless you really suxors and fly with a mouse...

Aiming ahead of a turning plane and killing it with cannons mid turn was my fav aspect of 1.12 air combat..... you may ask why I enjoyed it ....

The answer is because I was good at shooting planes during turns.

I played BF2 demo version yesterday for comparison to what it is now... and I noticed my boardgun skills needed brushing up on a little... proof that the new Air to Air is making pilots lazy.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

OMG wtf are you talking about the board gun was great fun in 1.12, shooting planes while they were turning was not hard unless you really suxors and fly with a mouse...

Aiming ahead of a turning plane and killing it with cannons mid turn was my fav aspect of 1.12 air combat..... you may ask why I enjoyed it ....

The answer is because I was good at shooting planes during turns.

well, I use a mouse and I can shot a turning plane fine. I been doing that in BF42, DC, POE and BF2. I merely state that it's diffcult for noobs to do it, and if someone get you by that, you probably shouldn't call him a noob.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

doesn't matter. I can outrun the J10 with burner. My speed will usually maintain for another 2 seconds.

You're an idiot and I challenge you sir to a duel. I'll take the J-10 and you can take your "afterburner" and I'll shoot you down a hundred times with one arm behind my back just to prove my point. You can't outrun a J-10, and you can't outmaneuever a J-10, and I'll prove it.

And since you're clearly trolling these forums at this moment name a nice empty server with a J-10/F-35B available and I'll be there to prove you wrong.

[LoKi.]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I call dibs on spectating

Edit.. and PW can u pm me your username for infantry id like to play some ground with you if you dont mind

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Hu.Z got awful quiet.

How about you Mandos, would you like to show me your missile dodging technique?

I want to enter the Matrix like you.