Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

tanks are not god-like, so my 31000+ are much harder to get than your pu$$y jet whoring

Tanks are not godlike? I don't use armor all that often but when I hop in a tank or APC on Karkand I'm guaranteed at least 50 kills for that round. Tanks may not have the same exact level of survivability that airplanes used to have, but if you're experienced with armor, use your various camera angles, and keep at a slight distance you're virtually unkillable. My favorite moves are the "stand in front of a supply crate godmode", and "stand next to another piece of armor both with engineer kit constant repair godmode".

Oh, and tanks suffer absolutely none of the shortcomings that airplanes do, they can benefit from infantry kits, they provide actualy physical cover for infantry, they can push the line of the battlefield up with ease, and they can capture flags. Planes can do none of the above.

On a final note, when I'm playing as a tank whore, I can turn at least half the cylinders in my brain to "idle", as playing a tank whore, even a good one isn't nearly involved as being an airplane pilot. You see proof of this simply if you throw some private newbie in a tank, he'll score big usually, but throw that same private in an airplane (fighter) and he'll be guaranteed to be at the bottom of the scoreboard. If I was to have the same lax attitude I sometimes do when cruising around in a tank that is almost certain death and failure in a plane. Or, I suppose I could put it this way: Planes take more skill than tanks.

Karkand whores make me laugh.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Actually I think A2A combat has been improved a lot with v1.2. Before the last patch dogfights could go on infinitely if there were two equally skilled pilots. That's been fun one or two times in a round but got pretty boring after that and none focused on enemy jets anymore but raped ground forces instead.

Now we have a pretty dynamic A2A combat system imo. Dogfights are fast, more intense and dangerous. You have to be aware of stationary AA sites, AA vehicles and other aircrafts. That makes it, at least for me, much more thrilling and fun!

The statement I read here, that A2A missiles never ever loose track on a jet after it dropped its flares is false I think. They are hitting a lot more often and are barely to evade, yes. But nevertheless they still do miss and, except your opponent is flying straight and/or performing pretty simple maneuvers, only because you got on an enemy tail first and shot the first bunch of missiles it doesn't necessarily mean that you've got a guaranteed kill. It's likely, but not guaranteed.

If two not equally skilled pilots meet each other now, the better one will be victorious pretty quick. That's good, because he's the better pilot. But if two equal pilots meet, a dogfight can still go on for a few minutes before the pursuer looses sight on his target or until he shoots his enemy down. The autocannon is still a valuable tool during a dogfight. With v1.2 1/3 of my kills I did against other jets were done with the autocannon, because my A2A missiles just didn't hit them.

The consequence of this new dynamic is, that there are more A2A fights going on which are more fun too. Furthermore you have to loose your pursuer now, instead of the missiles he fired, which encourages to do more flight maneuvers rather than just flying circles. Pre v1.2 that's been only the case, when your pursuer was a good pilot and could use the autocannon effective.

Though AA and A2A missiles still have their issues, it's definitely going towards the right direction!


But just my 2 cents


cheers
Mandos_2k

[jakswan]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I think the thread is done, we'll just have to agree to differ. I think the game is better as a result but the dogfighting is worse. At least people do try to dogfight now.

If it doesn't take any skill then I must have been very very lucky recently.

Interesting reading Duck and Wargimp's posts. Can I ask what may be a daft question.

If the missle reaquires look every 50ms, then if you buzz an nme chopper and pull up then the missle will lock on those flares?

Does it go for the easiest route?

I can see me in a panic scanning for an nme chopper :)

[baggygreen]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Okay, i'm not going to bite into the a2a missiles argument, because i've experienced both more plusses and minuses since the patch. Frankly i think that no matter what Dice does, they're not going to get it right for everybody, and so there will always be someone unhappy.

My questions are for the mighty whorer of planes, do you ever use the F2x whatever the heck it is? I noticed in the video you spent most your time in the J10, with a lil in the f18 which i've heard is comparable to the j10 anyways. So, do you use the f22 or whatever it is often??

Also, what do you do when you don't manage to spawn at the right location and someone else scores the jet, do you wait around for it to respawn or are you one who goes off to the battle??

cheers,
baggy

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I take the inferior plane whenever I can. So yeah, its F-35B for me.

About the other question. It really depends on what I want to do. If I want to fly, I stay, if I want to stick to the ground, I do it. I also leave jets alone when theres competent people around who can fly them so my "services" arent needed.

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Ok, I lied a little bit...

I'm back to yap 'cause apparently, I'm more "skilled" than anyone Planewhore has flown against, by his own definition (not mine, I still ain't great).

Tonight, I managed to break from and kill 3 J-10s while flying an F-18. Poor plane was just laying there neglected, so I flew. Now I didn't do a whole lot of ownage, but I did manage to pull off some of the evasive maneuvers I described before.

It's all about the flare and break.

I had a sweet one where I managed to pull a text-book 90 degree Immelmann that my presure was clearly not expecting. As soon as I heard a lock tone start, I dipped down a bit and went hard on burners. When the tone went solid, I dropped flares, cut the burners and pulled hard up, rotated 90 degrees, hit another burner boost, the pulled it over the top. Shook him nice 'n clean. I was able to lean into a hard turn, suckered him into dropping his flares early, then popped him. Made me 'cause I did the whole thing quite intentionaly.

I did another two flights that round, but then someone else expressed intrest in flying, so I jumped in a buggy 'n capped some flags. Each other flight I was able to shake people off my tail after hearing a solid lock tone. I also got shot down each time while I was outta flares, but I screwed up twice and was unlucky once.

I really wish I had the BR file for this.

Anyway... I'm jabbering now. It was just a hella lotta fun 's all.
Go out 'n try it guys. When you get that tone, get creative with your maneuvers and don't forget to drop the flares!

A couple hints: As soon as you hear the soft lock, go hard on your burners to (hopefully) get a little distance from your attacker. When you hear the tone go solid, release flares and burner. Then do something fancy 'cause if ya don't, yer dead in 3 seconds.

Edit: none of this is to say that the current system is "perfect". However, I just had a hella lotta fun with it in ways that some folks say you can't.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

That's what I was talking about Wargimp. :) I think such situations are just far more exciting and you never had to fly that way before v1.2.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Jeez Mandos, all kinds of things wrong with your post... where shall I begin?

Mandos, you really think they needed to nerf planes? According to your stats you have a 3:1 K/D ratio in a plane, and less than a single kill every for every two minutes you spent in a plane, and as we all know that is the ONLY way planes get score, that'd put you at around a SPM of 1 in a plane. You think 1 SPM and 3:1 K/D is overpowered?

Actually I think A2A combat has been improved a lot with v1.2.

How can you say that? How is (first lock or better plane = win) an improvement?

Before the last patch dogfights could go on infinitely if there were two equally skilled pilots.

All other factors being equal, a dogfight between two equally skilled pilots should never end, as they essentially cancel each other off the battlefield. But that rather isn't the case, as no such scenario exisits. In 1.12 a dogfight between two reasonable equally skilled players will take anywhere from 20 seconds to a couple of minutes, depending on the skill differential between them, and I see absolutely no problem with that kind of a time frame for a dogfight that decides something as important as AIR SUPERIORITY. An extremely skilled player versus a novice or average pilot can end in as little as 5 seconds, or just as fast as every dogfight now ends in 1.2. Again, the only variables that mattered in that situation was airplane skill and experiences, and the result of such a system is very pure and obvious, as it rewards the best player every time.

That's been fun one or two times in a round but got pretty boring after that and none focused on enemy jets anymore but raped ground forces instead.

Sucks when that happens, but that is what you get with two ****ty pilots in a game. A skilled pilot who cares about winning the game for his team will confront any pilot who is threatening his team (I always did). Once shot down, that pilot is now extremely vulnerable on his take-off attempt, and the better of the two pilots as long as he is on time and keeps his situational awareness can continue to frag pilot #2 for the rest of the game. Again, this highlights the planes biggest vulnerability in 1.12, and shows that dogfighting is in fact not a waste as long as you know how to maintain the fruits of your labor. If the enemy team does not like this situation, then that is where S2A comes in to play, as it was very useful for chasing off an enemy plane. Or, you could call in the other plane on the team and use it to either chase away or shoot down the pilot allowing your buddy to take off again, also known as "teamwork".

Now we have a pretty dynamic A2A combat system imo. Dogfights are fast, more intense and dangerous. You have to be aware of stationary AA sites, AA vehicles and other aircrafts. That makes it, at least for me, much more thrilling and fun!

Rather, dogfights outcome is based solely on the choice of plane or rather which team you've been put on at RANDOM, if your flares are RANDOMLY up, or who sees who first at RANDOM. Because lets face it, planes have massive blind spots and the view distance while buggy as all hell also becomes a factor, and boy oh boy what a way to punish people with low end computers who can't set view distance to one hundred percent. 1.2 dofights are only more dangerous for one small group of players, and those being the skilled pilots, and now in 1.2 it's less dangerous for newbies because now they have a fighting chance against the pros because random variables and selections that are not effected by skill determine the victor in a dogfight. That makes it at least for me, much more dangerous, but much less rewarding and shallow as well.

The statement I read here, that A2A missiles never ever loose track on a jet after it dropped its flairs is false I think. They are hitting a lot more often and are barely to evade, yes. But nevertheless they still do miss and, except your opponent is flying straight and/or performing pretty simple maneuvers, only because you got on an enemy tail first and shot the first bunch of missiles it doesn't necessarily mean that you've got a guaranteed kill. It's likely, but not guaranteed.

You're partly at right on this point, as missile strikes are not guaranteed, but however it has nothing to do with "evasive maneuevers" (I LOL everytime I hear someone say that). Rather, it's the RANDOM chance for your missile to seek another target other than the one you originally fired at. Take my video for example, 3rd or 4th kill as I recall, I fire two missiles, one hits the enemy, and at RANDOM one missile decides hits my teammate. This can lose a dogfight for you, or allow your enemy to escape, but again it is a completely RANDOM variable. In 1.12 evasive maneuevers did work, and they took skill to use, as one evasive maneuever would sometimes fail to work as good as another, and which evasive maneuever you decided to use (to get the best chance for a success missile dodge) was based off skill, and experience rather than RANDOM variables.

If two not equally skilled pilots meet each other now, the better one will be victorious pretty quick. That's good, because he's the better pilot. But if two equal pilots meet, a dogfight can still go on for a few minutes before the pursuer looses sight on his target or until he shoots his enemy down. The autocannon is still a valuable tool during a dogfight. With v1.2 1/3 of my kills I did against other jets were done with the autocannon, because my A2A missiles just didn't hit them.

This is an absolutely falsehood. If two skilled pilots meet, the one with flares down, or the one with the better plane, or the one who sees whomever first, or the one sitting above his home base with manned AA guns will win. Again, a set of RANDOM variables deciding the outcome in a dogfight. Of course, a newbie can still be a victim of his own inexperience, but in 1.2, depending on circumstance he can down a pilot with a thousand times the level of experience piloting that he does, and that's just plain wrong IMO. Also, the cannon is useless, take it from me, as I have a crack shot with the cannon and it really ends up being a waste with the ease of missiles. If I haven't killed my target with all six missiles (and shame on me, or rather RANDOM missile failure if that occurs six times in a row), but at that point you're much better going back to your base for more missiles rather than wasting your time with cannons. If I say cannons suck in A2A combat now, then they suck, as I consider myself to be a regular cannon guru.

The consequence of this new dynamic is, that there are more A2A fights going on which are more fun too.

You're right, you do have more A2A fighting, that I will concede. But the reason is for that is all of those crap pilots I refered to earlier in my post now actually attempt to dogfight because they are EASY KILLS based on RANDOM variables. These same people who always got owned in A2A combat, and rather than focusing on gaining air superiority through dogfighting other planes, would rather be worthless to their team and frag nothing but ground targets while a pilot like me decimated their side ten fold.

The S2A and A2A missiles had issues in 1.12, but now in 1.2 they have many more issues and have essentially ruined the balance of power, and rewarded inexperience, or shall I say it's going in the wrong direction.

If you like a whole lot of RANDOM, then 1.2 is the patch for you, that much I'm certain of.

But that's just my million dollars.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Okay, i'm not going to bite into the a2a missiles argument, because i've experienced both more plusses and minuses since the patch. Frankly i think that no matter what Dice does, they're not going to get it right for everybody, and so there will always be someone unhappy.

My questions are for the mighty whorer of planes, do you ever use the F2x whatever the heck it is? I noticed in the video you spent most your time in the J10, with a lil in the f18 which i've heard is comparable to the j10 anyways. So, do you use the f22 or whatever it is often??

Also, what do you do when you don't manage to spawn at the right location and someone else scores the jet, do you wait around for it to respawn or are you one who goes off to the battle??

cheers,
baggy

Fair questions, and I'll answer them.

First off, the F-18 isn't even close to the J-10, and it's only a tad better than an F-35B, but not by much.

In 1.12, plane choice did not matter to me. If I was in a F-35B versus a bunch of J-10s I'd still gain air superiority for my team, it was a matter of pure skill and even when handicapped by plane choice, I'd still do fine. I'd always switch to the losing team after every round regardless of what plane it put me in, which is why I still ended up spending a nice chunk of time on the Chinese team, as they tend to be the losers on all maps with the exception of Wake 2007.

In 1.2, I find myself clicking to Chinese at every chance I get regardless of which team is stacked ect. Why? Because the J-10 is a massive variable in dogfighting now, and i've had a couple run ins with other pilots that would be considered "decent" in 1.12 (people I would've shot down without a second thought), but if they're in the J-10 and I'm in (insert any other plane besides a J-10 here), then I'm toast. Yes, that's the sad state of things in 1.2, where choice of plane can cripple even the best pilots. I personally don't like to get fragged by newbies in J-10s, so I'll always go for the Chinese team now. When I'm flying in the J-10, as I win every single dogfight through superior maneueverbility, I die very little (Even in 1.2, I'm somewhere around 70:1 K/D ratio in the J-10).

If someone else got the jet in 1.12 before me then that'd suck, they'd usually suck and it'd crash in no time. But now in 1.2, the planes are getting shot down and destroyed right and left, and typically I'll wait no more than a couple of minutes to get a plane if I want to fly. I've got a fast computer though and I'm always one of the first people loaded in to a map, and that helps quite a bit.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

No offense Wargimp, but, uh it's no secret that flares will help you evade missiles in 1.2. No, that Immelman did not help you one bit. It was all in the flares.

If you'd like me to prove my point, pick a server and I'll hop in a J-10, you can take whatever, and we'll see if you can shoot me down. I'll keep spinning, you'll never lock, if you get the initial lock out of a blind spot i'll flare then I'll out turn you and shoot you down. No skill required, just a set of basic maneuevers, and a better plane.

I make that statement with the utmost confidence that no factor outside of divine intervention could save you in such a scenario.

[jakswan]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Planewhore, you've just gotta watch 'PlaneWhore the Movie' to know you just spout garbage.

Honestly chopper pilots check it out, just watch the first minute. In fact I might repost the first minute so it's only a few meg with some comments. It's everything that was wrong with regard to 1.12.

[-(PK)-DarkIllusion]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

that movie answered alot of questions bout planes that i had b4 lol... liked it

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Planewhore, you've just gotta watch 'PlaneWhore the Movie' to know you just spout garbage.

Honestly chopper pilots check it out, just watch the first minute. In fact I might repost the first minute so it's only a few meg with some comments. It's everything that was wrong with regard to 1.12.

EDIT: I may have misunderstood you. I'm talking about PWTHEMOVIE.RAR file. The one with alot of BR and (almost) no A2A combat.

I watched that movie too. At first I saw planewhore as a very good industrial killer versus newbies but not anything else. The thing that dissappointed me most at first was the use of the sidewinders. But then I saw he obviously knew what he was doing with the cannon. He wasn't as sharp as a certain Riva was against helicopters before he stopped playing though.

The thing that stood out to me most in the video wasn't the skill of PW but rather idiocy of the other team. It took them more than five minutes to start manning AA and go after him and even then it was haphazard. He was basically left alone and towards the end some AA guns were manned and he couldn't strike with anywhere near the efficiency he could when left unopposed. Which proves quite nicely that even pre 1.2 AA wasn't useless. I'm not saying it was fine but it wasn't useless as some have stated.

I'm not putting you down PW and I would place you among the top five fighter pilots I've seen so far in this game. But I don't have the data to judge what you could do against real opposition. I'm inclined to agree that you're the best killer in public games but I can't say if you're the best fighter pilot period. If that video is an indicator of regular opposition skill I would say you're looking for newbie servers. But judging from my own experience in the helo I would place the greatest factor of succes on the ineptness of the other team.

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

They are invulnerable even now. Dont you read the forums? Good pilots arent downed that often at all.


A jet doesnt wait for a newlyspawned trooper to take him down while hes most voulnerable. We can say that most of his kills came from when a troop had an option, some choices. When you and your tank cannon were aiming spawnpoints, troops only choice was to spwn somewhere else and ditch the flag.


LOL. Looks like jet pilots just raped you too much.


Youve spent 404 hours in your moms basement yourself. But she just cooks great, doesnt she?

not anymore. since 1.2, i've actually been able to take down your whoring a$$e$. good pilots LOL, the good pilots don't come here whining, they fvckin adapt. go read the CAL forums and see how many threads there are whining about the SAMs and A2A. it's only the pubbie nubs like you, that 7+ hours a day loser loki and planewhore who have been whining the most.

before 1.2, if you nubs could come to a full stop and hover, i wouldn't be surprised to see you doing that before especially since the ground AA didn't do $hit. guess what, that's what the game is about, capping flags and putting the bleed on your enemy. so how is it my fault if you and your kind are too stupid to try flanking. but then again, i should have guessed the answer, you're a pubbie nub.

yeah, they did, because there was nothing that a person on the ground could do to take down your pu$$y a$$e$ because almost everyone (except you and your butt buddies) agrees that the ground AA was worthless.

how does 1.64 hours a day of BF2 even compare to 7.31 hours a day? and why don't you reveal your game handle? i'm almost convinced you've got something to hide, perhaps you're another basement loser like loki.

Tanks are not godlike? I don't use armor all that often but when I hop in a tank or APC on Karkand I'm guaranteed at least 50 kills for that round.

you think tanking on karkand is so easy, play against me. pick a server, date and time and put your money where your mouth is. we'll see how close you get to 50 kills.

Karkand whores make me laugh.

that's funny, i had the same reaction to jet pilots before 1.2, they were the scum of bf2.

[Mandos_2k]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Mandos, you really think they needed to nerf planes?

No, I don't think that they needed to nerf planes. But I think they needed to improve all kinds of AA stuff and A2A missiles as they were totally useless.

According to your stats you have a 3:1 K/D ratio in a plane, and less than a single kill every for every two minutes you spent in a plane,

Well, I never claimed to be a 1337 pilot and my 3:1 K/D ratio isn't as high as yours, because I play as good as never on 64 player maps but on 32 and less. I don't spawn rape and everytime I have the chance for a dogfight I take it. But that brings in less kills as you should know.

If you would less "plane-whore" and play on servers where not every bomb drop gives you 5 kills and every strafe run at least 1 kill you might see that a high K/D ratio isn't really telling whether you're facing a capable or n00bish pilot.

So, for not being a whore I think my score isn't bad.

You think 1 SPM and 3:1 K/D is overpowered?

TBH: yes, I think that's overpowered. Not regarding to the score, but to the fact that any given AA weapon never shot me down. The only times I died in v1.12 and earlier versions were, because a far better pilot managed to shoot me down with his autocannon after a five minutes or even longer dogfight or because I crashed by accident.

How can you say that? How is (first lock or better plane = win) an improvement?

I say that the new patch is an improvement for air-to-air combat, because you now have to loose your persuer before he can get a lock on you and if he gets a lock on you, you will have to use your one-chance-flare-rescue to get rid off him after that. And that quickly, which is more thrilling and therefore more fun and therefore an improvement.

And the first lock and the "better" plane is no certain win. You still need skill to controll your craft and to use it effectively. On both sides: the pursuer and the pursued.

All other factors being equal, a dogfight between two equally skilled pilots should never end,

Sure it should end. Sooner or later one of both does a mistake and that should lead to the end of the dogfight to be able to continue the game with something else. Only because people are equally skilled it doesn't mean that they won't do mistakes which will get them killed.

as they essentially cancel each other off the battlefield. But that rather isn't the case, as no such scenario exisits. In 1.12 a dogfight between two reasonable equally skilled players will take anywhere from 20 seconds to a couple of minutes, depending on the skill differential between them, and I see absolutely no problem with that kind of a time frame for a dogfight that decides something as important as AIR SUPERIORITY.

And that's still the case. It just needs more skill to continue a dogfight over time. Yesterday evening I had a few small dogfights on Kubra Dam which took up a few minutes and thus "essentially canceled each other off the battlefield" and decided the AIR SUPERIORITY during that round.

An extremely skilled player versus a novice or average pilot can end in as little as 5 seconds, or just as fast as every dogfight now ends in 1.2. Again, the only variables that mattered in that situation was airplane skill and experiences, and the result of such a system is very pure and obvious, as it rewards the best player every time.

That hasn't changed either with the new missile design. Still the skilled pilots will gain air superiority and win most (if not all) dogfights they get involved in. It has just become harder as you can die faster and dogfights doesn't take up to 30min., which is good as BF2 is a fast game. Otherwise I would be playing Lock-On or Falcon.

A skilled pilot who cares about winning the game for his team will confront any pilot who is threatening his team (I always did). Once shot down, that pilot is now extremely vulnerable on his take-off attempt, and the better of the two pilots as long as he is on time and keeps his situational awareness can continue to frag pilot #2 for the rest of the game.

That's another reason why your K/D ratio is much higher than mine and our play styles obviously differ from each other. I let the enemy aircraft take-off again, especially when the last dogfight was a hell of a fun for me and ended tight.

Rather, dogfights outcome is based solely on the choice of plane or rather which team you've been put on at RANDOM, if your flares are RANDOMLY up, or who sees who first at RANDOM. Because lets face it, planes have massive blind spots and the view distance while buggy as all hell [...]

There are differences between planes and some have more dogfighting capabilities than others, yes. But in the end the better pilot will still win. I've shot as many J-10's on Wake in a F-35B as the other way around. If the pilot you're facing is better than you, you'll loose, no matter what aircraft you're flying or who saw who first. Though I admit, that some have an unfair touch... .

1.2 dofights are only more dangerous for one small group of players, and those being the skilled pilots, and now in 1.2 it's less dangerous for newbies because now they have a fighting chance against the pros because random variables and selections that are not effected by skill determine the victor in a dogfight. That makes it at least for me, much more dangerous, but much less rewarding and shallow as well.

#1: I don't see why air-to-air combat has only become more dangerous for skilled pilots. If they're really skilled, they'll still hinder the enemy to lock them and succesfully evade engagements. On the other hand, a newbie will be shot down even faster than before.

#2: Everyone should have a chance to kill his enemy in a public game that's been made for entertainment. It's the skill that determines how often a newb can kill you (if he can at all). That hasn't changed in v1.2. It's just a lot harder than before.

#3: You're right. A victory upon an enemy jet is less rewarding and more shallow than pre v1.2. But everything in between (the point you spot the enemy jet until you finally shot it down) is more fun, thrilling and entertaining imo.

You're partly at right on this point, as missile strikes are not guaranteed, but however it has nothing to do with "evasive maneuevers" (I LOL everytime I hear someone say that).

By evasive maneuvers I mean everything you do to prevent your enemy to get you. When you have no flares left and a few missiles on your six, yeah, than you're as good as dead. But then you deserved to be shot down as you let your enemy push you that far and obviously couldn't shake him off before he got that lock and already got you to waste your flares.

Rather, it's the RANDOM [...] fire two missiles, one hits the enemy, and at RANDOM one missile decides hits my teammate.

That's one of the points I hint at by saying that "AA and A2A missiles still have their issues". But nevertheless the missile changes are pointing at the right direction imo.

In 1.12 evasive maneuevers did work, and they took skill to use, as one evasive maneuever would sometimes fail to work as good as another, and which evasive maneuever you decided to use (to get the best chance for a success missile dodge) was based off skill, and experience rather than RANDOM variables.

muahahaha... :laugh: sorry... but that's totally ridiculous. :) Pre v1.2 you never ever needed to drop flares. If you did, just for the fun of doing so but not because you needed to and there were no evasive maneuvers. There were just the evasive maneuver: a hard turn in any direction. That always dodged every missile.

[...] Again, a set of RANDOM variables deciding the outcome in a dogfight.

But to a certain extend random variables are and should be part of the game. Just compare any other aspect of BF2 to that: they all have random variables which may cause your death (mines, claymores, arty, a tank around the corner, a stationary MG, a Jet dropping bombs, etc.)

Of course, a newbie can still be a victim of his own inexperience, but in 1.2, depending on circumstance he can down a pilot with a thousand times the level of experience piloting that he does, and that's just plain wrong IMO.

Since v1.2 I haven't been shot down by a newbie tbh. During the match from yesterday on Kubra Dam there was a private sometimes in the air who tried to kill me. He came close a few times but in the end he always got blown up by me. Of course even a total stupid n00b can shoot you down now, but just like I mentioned above: everyone should be able to shoot down his opponent and only your own skill when maneuvering should determine how often you die to him. Bad luck included. :) I think that's fine when you get blown up, even by a newbie/n00b. Tanks have to deal with that too: even the dumbest guy playing as Anti-Tank can destroy a tank.

Also, the cannon is useless, take it from me, as I have a crack shot with the cannon and it really ends up being a waste with the ease of missiles. If I haven't killed my target with all six missiles (and shame on me, or rather RANDOM missile failure if that occurs six times in a row), but at that point you're much better going back to your base for more missiles rather than wasting your time with cannons.

Well, that's just again one of those points where our play-styles differ. If I'm on the tail of an enemy Jet, I will still hunt him even without any missiles left and use my autocannon instead. I prefer that (as it works too) more than to let him loose to rearm and have him on MY tail then. Moreover I keep him busy that way which is always good for my team.

You're right, you do have more A2A fighting, that I will concede. But the reason is for that is all of those crap pilots I refered to earlier in my post now actually attempt to dogfight because they are EASY KILLS based on RANDOM variables. These same people who always got owned in A2A combat, and rather than focusing on gaining air superiority through dogfighting other planes, would rather be worthless to their team and frag nothing but ground targets while a pilot like me decimated their side ten fold.

For me that just sounds like you fear more competition that can you get killed. If you're truly good, than you'll still dominate the air. You'll die, probably a lot, but still own everything that crosses you. It's now more like to be on the ground: even there any n00btuber or AT-Rocket n00b can own you there. Regardless of your personal skill, but you'll probably still kill him more often than he kills you. I think that's fine.

The S2A and A2A missiles had issues in 1.12, but now in 1.2 they have many more issues and have essentially ruined the balance of power [...]

If you like a whole lot of RANDOM, then 1.2 is the patch for you, that much I'm certain of.

Like I said in my first post in this thread: AA and A2A missiles still have their issues which have to be solved. Missiles that hit your teammates instead your opponents or spinning like crazy need to be fixed, but except for that it looks good.

Oh, and you're right: v1.2 really ruined the balacne of power. Jets used to be all-mighty über killing machines that couldn't be stopped effectively. Now they are a more balanced part of the game which have their advantages and disadvantages and most importantly: they can be shot down by ground troops too.

Nevertheless there are still issues which need to be balanced and solved, but I can't say that I miss air-to-air combat from v1.12. :)


boah, darn. That's a long post, hehe.


cheers
Mandos_2k :)