1.2 Death of Attack Helis

[Badboris_uk]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

I have no respect for ground only pounders who say this. They haven't spent the time to learn how to fly, don't have a clue what it was like to fly before the patch and after the patch. Not only that as a dedicated ground pounder never took the time to use the old AA and just because they never hit "everytime" said it didn't work and gave up.

I have taken down many planes with 1.12 AA. It wasn't a sure thing but it took skill to do it. Wait for exactly the right time, lead the shot and sure enough you could take planes down. Helis were really easy to take down with 1.12 AA Again it wasn't a sure thing and again it took skill waiting for the right time, again leading the shot. .50cals could also easily take down a heli in 1.12 but these ground pounders who specialise in playing on the ground only never seemed to get it? I found the guys who did could all fly helis and they were the ones downing me with the anti-heli weapons.

Yeah, i play on the ground, but I also fly heli, although only as the BH pilot (transporting) or attack chopper when supporting a squad (read voicecomms with the guys on foot). Im not too bad at it either - I have a heli combat ribbon as well. Its just I enjoy being on foot more, and I think its funny that retards who only do one thing can confuse obsession with skill and think that it is an admirable trait. These are the people that assumem that just because they exist at the top of the food chain in thier chosen method of play, that it is skill and not a balance issue keeping them there. So yeah, i like the new AA, i think its tops. Ill just have to be more careful when I fly a chopper, and so will you.

[Alcorr]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Yeah, i play on the ground, but I also fly heli, although only as the BH pilot (transporting) or attack chopper when supporting a squad (read voicecomms with the guys on foot). Im not too bad at it either - I have a heli combat ribbon as well. Its just I enjoy being on foot more, and I think its funny that retards who only do one thing can confuse obsession with skill and think that it is an admirable trait. These are the people that assumem that just because they exist at the top of the food chain in thier chosen method of play, that it is skill and not a balance issue keeping them there. So yeah, i like the new AA, i think its tops. Ill just have to be more careful when I fly a chopper, and so will you.

I partly agree with your post, but not that the AA is balanced.

Theres a reason why on most maps theres only 2 jets and 1 attack chopper.

Its because they are SUPPOSED to be more powerful than the other things like umm...infantry!

Jets > Choppers > tanks > APCs > pretty much everything else.

Thats how its supposed to work.

Should AA be a good counter against the things at the top of the chain?

Yes, yes it should.

Should it take zero skill to take out expert pilots by simply left clicking twice?

Umm no.

AA and Aircraft should be balanced by this rule:

Expert pilot has equal chances against decent AA person

Therefore AA is stronger than Aircraft, but not as overpowering as it is now.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

No dude, he's an ASS pounder. :hmm:

Whats wrong with the occasional buttsecks?

Anyhow, people have yet to realize that as a skill vs skill game, a player with the most experience should prevail (in theory). A medic with superb knifing skills cant do much against a tank, I guess thats common sense.

A n00b AT gets killed by a tank easily. A n00b tank driver gets killed by a good AT easily. Although on different parts of the food chain, AT is a natural counter for the tank, which requires skills to use. Thats what I think about AA aswell, well, thought anyway. You shouldnt be able to down an expert, if youre a n00b as easily as the expert kills you.

Now, STA wasnt as effective in practice, but ONLY because people didnt feel like the time spent there would be rewarding, fun. Therefore experienced AAers were a rarity. What Dice should have done originally-
Design every element of the game with keeping this golden rule in mind "If its not fun, they will not learn how to use it". AA vehicles are fun. So- 2-3 AA vehicles per side on maps with air force should have done the trick.´

EDIT: No static AAs of course.

[Alcorr]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

True, mobile AA with 1.12 missiles would have been fine (I mean if there were more of them per side and no stinger sites)

You shouldnt be able to down an expert, if youre a n00b as easily as the expert kills you.

Thats how it should be, and kinda still is for jets...

Attack helis = different story.

[innerchild]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

i totaly agree with the poster of this topic.
helis have been nerved to death and especially the armour is fokked now.
i agree as well that the armour and advantages of a heli was way out of balance but this rebalancing is totaly not done.....

the balance has been totaly ruined... this is for attacking and non attacking heli's. ever seen now on oman when the mec has all the flags you can not aproach the beach in a normal blackhawk since 1 lock of AA is an instant death.

way the go dice for messing up the gameplay.........

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

I made this post in regard to attack helis but... BH's have also been overly nerfed. I use to really enjoy downing 1.0 BH's It was a sense of achievement. Especially when I did it single handley. People complained about how over powered they were and merely gave up cursing the BH's. But I could down a BH with a single round from the noob toob taking the pilot out. BH's to be effective pre patch required good teamwork. 6 people working together effectively. So why should anyone 1 person be able to take out 6 people with 2 left clicks?

I agree with what you are saying about the BH'ers especially on maps like Oman and Wake. If the MEC hold all the beach bases on Oman a BH has no chance of making it to land. None whatsoever! That is just rediculous. How are they supposed to transport troops now to land on these maps. Well some say fly low, some say fly high either way they are dead from either tanks, apcs, .50cals flying low. Mid range IGLA's own them, flying high they are jet fodder. In fact they are jet fodder no matter what altitude they fly at.

The balance has been thrown out the window to appease the skilless players of BF2, no ifs buts or maybes!

[Sir. bzb]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

BH on Oman is still easy enough to get to land when MEC are building sand castles. Obviously you cant surf your way to the beach as people try to as that’s straight into enemy fire, it is just a fly high job. Yes there are jets but it’s a big sky and there are only two of them usually squabbling over boat kills.
The main problem with that map is the constant string of prats that have yet to realise that you can take off from the carrier from any side, including jet pilots, that there is a free area of map where you can build height behind the carrier or that the BH is a needle in a haystack of sky to find. Jets tend to be turning at the edge of the map, obviously, and will be flying lower generally on the approaches to the runway. Commander could spot you but only in a 2d way. Of course there are no guarantee’s you wont get spotted by a jet but there are only two of them which cant possibly cover the volume of map the BH can operate in, also what are the friendly jets doing if they aren’t covering the BH…. Lack of team work still seems to be your problem.
Wake is more interesting, but again head on to the island is suicide. The missile sites are blind to one side of the map due to trees or buildings, flying low and far from the island works as you can come back close behind the beach defenders and safe from missiles, or go high and halo your team in. You really do only get killed in BF2 if someone sees you and that is not difficult to avoid. I usually take the halo option on Wake, planes are only a threat for half the journey.

It almost seems like people don’t know the basics of the BH, it goes up, down left, right, forward and backwards. It will barrel roll, cartwheel, loop the loop, travel at well over 400mph and drop flares. It seems for most people it only goes forward and down at 230mph. I wonder if the intro movie should be swapped for “How not to be seen”- you see it every time, people jump in the BH take off forward and fly at 3ft above the waves straight at the apcs etc. or take off, fly forward trying to gain height en-route and meet a missile. Sorry but trying to take on 30 people will get you killed one way or another, even the odds and risk one pilot (yet to see formation flying) maybe spotting you if he’s lucky, cant say I see many pilots flying high enough to avoid most of the action after all- which is what you want to in the BH. Face it, on Oman if you could fly at 3ft over the waves and make it ashore don’t you think that the 30 MEC players might spot where you’ve gone anyway… it’s a big grey give away, that used to work only as a distraction to get a boat ashore.

BH not used as a makeshift hovercraft can make it to land in both maps, it’s a transport not an assault vehicle, its guns are defensive not offensive, but I think they maybe giving people the wrong impression, point being you shouldn’t take it looking for trouble as it isn’t equipped to cope. BF2 is a 3d environment and the bulk of the area of the maps cant be accessed on foot, why not take your time to explore the rest of the map and the entire new realm of possibilities it represents.
The lack of skill is coming from the people who fail to realise the strengths and weakness's of the in game equiptment and assume that the only tactic is a head on assault.


One person killing six with two clicks (sorry flares work for the first one) is the same as one person killing three with one click in a car vs tank situation, perhaps you might also argue the cars should blow smoke- if we wanted to explore the whole k/d ratios possible with each piece of equipment vs the number of clicks required. Cant remember who but “1C4 = 6 kills” springs to mind, before we get into carpet bombing or even road kills requiring no click whatsoever.
I suggest we leave the number of clicks vs kills out of this discussion as it would become daft.

[tsh2005]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

i dont understand why people type 3 pages of stuff but yea..

Ill i saw was "try not to be seen"

HA thats funny

maps are not that big

[Kattspya]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

One person killing six with two clicks (sorry flares work for the first one) is the same as one person killing three with one click in a car vs tank situation, perhaps you might also argue the cars should blow smoke- if we wanted to explore the whole k/d ratios possible with each piece of equipment vs the number of clicks required. Cant remember who but “1C4 = 6 kills” springs to mind, before we get into carpet bombing or even road kills requiring no click whatsoever.

If I diregard the fact that three doesn't equal six I still have a problem with this. I'm missed by tanks more often than I'm hit when riding a car. The hit ratio depends on the skill of the tanker. That is what this is (mostly) about not needing skill to down a helo with AA.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

i dont understand why people type 3 pages of stuff but yea..

Ill i saw was "try not to be seen"

HA thats funny

maps are not that big

I agree with that and any pilot worth their salt on 1.2 will be flying at a higher altitude to avoid S2A therefore a BH will stand out like dog balls. 6 easy kills using super AA is a no brainer. :laugh:

I don't want to get too off topic this was about attack helis not transport helis aka BHers.

[tsh2005]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

true. Its not like you can hide. I mean you can fly over the whole map in 3 secs

but I never find anyone ever fully loaded in the transpot chopper any more guess people learned. ahh well

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

true. Its not like you can hide. I mean you can fly over the whole map in 3 secs

but I never find anyone ever fully loaded in the transpot chopper any more guess people learned. ahh well

That's because I find 2 empty blackhawks sitting on deck now, wonder why? :laugh:

[Flatline_hun]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

As a chopper pilot/gunner myself let me tell you a recent story (post 1.2)
Dalian plant, I'm on PLA side, we have all flags. Both of our choppers were up, so I took a jeep and driven to the shore.
I see a cobra coming from the far distance, I begin to fire with .5 cal.
It's coming, I'm firing. It was smoking, when the gunner shot a TV guided at me. I thought I'm done, but it exploded about 20 feet ahead of me, in the air. The chopper was down seconds after....

So.... do you really think it's good the way it is, a jeep can take down an attack chopper BEFORE it's even in firing range? Well, I don't think so...

And pleeeeeease dont come up with REAL LIFE examples. In real life a Cobra just above the essex can take down a tank starting from the PLA main base.
According to this page, TV guided missiles have a range of 3 km. It has laser guided missiles (7km range) as well as air-to-air missiles.(15 km range)

AH-1Z

[-Ryu^-]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Well now the attack heli has limits. Don't get in them if you don't kno how to fly them tactically. Before you would get in one and won't care about stingers and tungusukas etc because they did crap all. Now you have to attack them from behind and think about positioning and aim rather than spray n pray format.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: 1.2 Death of Attack Helis

Well now the attack heli has limits. Don't get in them if you don't kno how to fly them tactically. Before you would get in one and won't care about stingers and tungusukas etc because they did crap all. Now you have to attack them from behind and think about positioning and aim rather than spray n pray format.

Oh Please Sir, you have absolutely no idea and its completely obvious you can't even fly a heli pre or post patch.

If you have read this thread you would see that experienced pilots said we did worry about S2A and AA tanks pre patch. We also worried about .50 cals, AT's, tanks, even GL's pre patch, TOW's the list goes on! Do you really think experienced heli pilots didn't fly tactically before?

I said in a previous post its almost impossible to know where an AA tank is pointing or aiming and it was sheer luck you could sneek up on them from behind. Especially when the smart guys would sit inside a shed with their ass to the wall and fire out from it. How do you sneak up behind them? How many experienced pilots every sprayed and prayed I know I didn't?

Yet another ground pounder offering us heli pilots another useful tip. :laugh: