Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

[The Question]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Easy fix for the jets would be to turn off their bloody christmas lights, I mean why should every darn vehicle or mounted gun light up like they do...

HO HO HO

[puglous]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

only tankwhores whine about aircrafts... if you hate them so much, play SF or smaller maps where you have a 0% possibility to meet a jet. lol

Since I doubt you're a native English speaker, please don't say "whining" unless you are ask for a roasting. People here like to throw it around whenever their method of scoring loads of points with eaze is jeopradized, but it is implying someone is childish.

Secondly, yes, the SF maps are nice, but I still don't appreciate paying for 20 maps and only having fun on half of them. I admit, when pilot skill is balanced, jets and/or helis are just a nice little decoration buzzing through the sky, and therefore leave me and my jeep/tank/APC/buggy alone. But otherwise, it gets really annoying.

Firstly.. what does IMHO mean? In My Honest Opinion? Why not just IMO?
Secondly.. What on earth is USSEX? US_SEX?? You must mean USS ESSEX (The Carrier?)

I'm pretty sure IMHO is "In my humble oppinion". And no, I don't think he's talking about United States sex, I think he's talking about the AA gun on the aircraft carrier.

[saurus]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Armor of them down? No need - all that needs to be done is have the missles actually lock on target. Just sucks when you have a chopper hovering right in front of you that does not even flare - and you cannot shoot it down.

Right now the attack choppers can be taken down very easily by light armor 50 cals and jets.

Slow the jets? wtf - hell no. Less bombs? Are you nuts? its 2 and 5 - how can you go less?

Just improve the tracking of the AA and all is settled.

BH's can be taken down with planes, attack choppers, 50 cals - much better now than it was.

I have to agree with you. I have been reading a lot lately about all the air superiority so I decided to deicate some games to just tacking them down. I tell you when you constantly have their radar beeping I think it throws them off their game. Instead of making their usual bombing runs they spent 3/4 of their time trying or blowing me up. It also help our pilots too since I always spotted them.

[Brindled]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

This solution has been resolved by a real life solution..Most aa Missles in rl are proximity triggered and explode when they get close.In bf2 you need a direct hit and it is way to easy just to out juke or out turn a missle.This would solve the problem no doubt.

Balance is very difficult to find

I think that it would be fair to increase AA accuracy even against choppers. It just encourages pilot/copilot to be careful when around AA positions. Good flying will often get you out of a missle lock so I don't think it would be a dehabilitating change to helicopter pilots. Timing flares will just be much more crutial...

I think the problem with the jets are the scale of the maps, they're too danged cramped. Everything happens in a small area when they COULD make the maps largers, but they don't.

also the one about no bombs, this could work potentially.
just a lil collage of some of the best arguments i have read (imo).

[TheCanOpener]

Plane ideas

1. Give the air defense on USS Essex and the ground AA limited radar. This way they have some type of warning the planes, helos are coming.

2. The idea about the controls bogging down is great. Skilled pilots could compensate.

3. Put a big pillow on the front of the plane so ramming is more difficult.

4. Ground the pilot so he can not immediately fly after crashing.

DEDO

[MrE|PUB]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

ive done my fair share of jet whoring

agree best way to nerf the plane is to reduce the number of bombs. tbh some of the runways seem a bit buggy only giving the fighters one bomb in any case

what i really dont get is how people moan so hard about how bunny hoppping is so unrealistic, then complain that the game jets are too powerful. i assure you they have much more devastating weapons in real life

cant please you infantry types can they? if you want realism fine take out the hopping, but you cant ask for a ww2 style plane that is slow and starts disintegrating when you tap it with your pistol

[Boojie]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

what i really dont get is how people moan so hard about how bunny hoppping is so unrealistic, then complain that the game jets are too powerful. i assure you they have much more devastating weapons in real life

True. But this game is predominantly about ground battles with air thrown in as a decoration. To use a food metaphor, the tanks and infantry are the burger and the air vehicles are the ketchup. Right now, we're being served a whole lot of ketchup with a tiny burger unless you're willing to limit yourself to Karkland.

As they said in the old Wendy's commercial...where's the beef?

To compare to real life even further, I suspect you could lobby DICE to throw in a nuke. Now, all we have is a 20 second game where the guy in a jet unloads a nuke and everyone on the ground is destroyed. Fun, fun.

In addtion to not being realistic, bunnyhopping is just plain stupid. It insults the intelligence. We might as well have people flying around in a cape with a big "S" on their chest. Instead of choosing sniper vs. special forces, we could add a Kryptonite kit. It's just stupid with no defense possible. This is not Mario Bros.

Lopsided air power, though realistic, is not fun. To be truly realistic, if that is the goal and I admit I lean more towards realism if given an option, is to add some meaningful air defense options. Somebody here pointed to Gulf War I and II as real life proof of the power of air superiority. And that is valid proof. But let's be clear: the U.S. pulled that stunt on the Iraqis. We wouldn't dare pull that stunt on the old Soviets or the current Chinese. Let Taiwan erupt into some meaningful conflict and watch us have to work real hard for that air superiority that came so easy in Gulf I and II.

[Boojie]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Also....you an engineer by any chance? Not too many people know delta.)

Actually, I'm a software developer. So I'm quick to come to DICE's defense when the criticism is naive or unwarranted. Developing even the simplest of software applications is a pain in the ass. I had a hell of a time today just trying to get a clean build because everyone is checking things into the source control repository and causing all sorts of havok. So when I see teens talking trash about how they could do better, I'll take that bet. I have yet to see it. They're good at complaining without the experience to back it up.

That said, DICE could do better in some areas and hopefully they'll take a lot of the constructive criticism on this board and make the game even better.

------------------

So I was thinking more last night about that idea I had on the value of kills. Unless they programmed it differently, this seems like an easy fix since they're just changing a bunch of constants. It's probably a 5 minute fix.

Here are my thoughts, trying to tie it to real life:

kill a...

jet +6
helos/tanks + 5
special forces +4
engineer +3
everyone else +1


Without re-explaining things, the idea is simple: losing a SEAL/Green Beret type is more costly than losing a normal soldier. Losing a plane is more expensive than losing a helo. Engineers (Army Corp of Engineers?) have more training than normal soldiers.

There's obviously room to tweak this, but I like the idea of gambling -- with more powers and capabilities comes more risk (to your stats). The payoff on roulette, for example, differs depending on how much money you put down, and whether you place it on a single number or a lame Odd/Even box.

Right now, everything is pretty much +2 and -2. Sigh. I guess what I'm saying is that by altering the values "good things" (ie. kills, flag captures) and "bad things" (deaths, loss of flag), they could add a whole lot of fun and strategy to the game. And all of this could be done with very, very, very, (one more time for impact) very little coding...unless they hardcoded these values in different places in which case DICE deserves to be raked over the coals because that's just idiotic programming. There is no excuse for that one. Whether they choose to implement something like this is up to their judgement, but they can't say with a straight face to anyone knowledgable in the business that "it's hard".

[Blud]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

1:Land to rearm with a 5 minute turnaround time before being able to fly again.
2: Limit access to planes to Once per round for each player.
3: One shot, one kill for anti-air missles.
4:Server side option to enable jets.
5:Have the plane spawn in before the player who dies does so they couldn't whore the plane for the whole (a good idea for all vehicles actually).
Any one of the 1st 3 would fix the problem. Numbers 4+5 would be just a nice addition to the game.

[dirtylarryuk]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

OK, all planes to me are flying coffins I am the worst pilot, in fact I still mainly suck in a helicopter {although I am a good gunner}. I have much admiration for the good pilots. Many of these people have great skill and I find it hard to down them with AA. I have afound a knack in dragon valley of downing copters with the stinger but not planes.

My suggestion is to leave planes and copters EXACTLY as they are. But yes make stingers lock on a bit more and at least have a better chance to hit. But make flares MANUAL not auto.

AND let anti tank switch ammo, so they can fire a heat seaking rocket or anti armour. I know the real ERYX etc don't do this but why not. Anti tank because also anti air.

In joint ops, copters rule unless they come across decent anti air people the stingers in JO are realistic and put the fear of god even into the best pilots. But best of all you can hide in a forest and hunt copters. The problem with static AA is good pilots and kill it every time. Make AA move about alot they will have to be far more cautious.

[The Question]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Green berets are no more. Only the Navy SEALS, & Army Rangers are still around. I guess in Mogadishu the army was really ticked off.

[Ind1go]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

The idea of awarding more points if you kill a vehicle/tank and rewarding the risk the player takes if they use one is interesting but flawed IMO. Unless I have your theory wrong...

Questions.

If a player in a plane dies do
a) they lose 8 points themselves? From what score?
b) their team loses 8 tickets?

Also, you cannot simply keep the current reward the same. So if someone knows that they will lose 8 pts if they die in a plane but still only gain 1pt per kill, no-one will use planes. You then haven't toned them down, you've nerfed them completely. Same is true for other vehicles to a lesser extent.

So, to keep people wanting to at least risk using vehicles their needs to be a personal incentive, i.e. more points. But therein lies the next problem - if you give people more points for kills when they are using vehicles you are then artificially increasing the scores of the players who are "owning" already, not solving the problem.

The same holds true for tickets too, rather than player scores. If players know their team is going to lose loads of tickets they will stay out of vehicles they are less good in, meaning that the better players get them. Meaning the better players are still owning.

Nice idea, but I don't think it'd work.

[The Question]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

You have so lost me my child..

[jakswan]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I would suggest reducing plane armour by a lot to 1/20th of what it is now:-

1) AA is twice as effective - one hit = goodnight
2) Dogfights over in seconds and don't turn into extended loop de loops
3) If planes attack a chopper / APC/ tank anything they are not vunerable, they should be, two hits with the APC gun = goodnight.
4) Even small arms fire does damage.

This will be EA's third attempt to 'fix the AA', if they succeed will we see choppers on servers?

I'd also suggest removing J10 bombs

[PBAsydney]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

The solution that would work:

Remove bombs totally from fighters

Done, then only bombers would be attacking ground (except for the machineguns that are highly underestimated), and fighters shooting them down. So, he can kill ground stuff with mg, but he cant spot it if no bomber view, making it impossible to find any vehicle until its too late.