Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

[puglous]

Don't get me wrong, it will be nice, but this will only be a temporary solution. It would be like giving someone who's poor and starving a meal. It would last a little while but ultimatley not change their lives.

This is because the issue with airpower is not its toughness. Okay, maybe with helicopters, but not with jets. The problem with airpower is that is too quick and mobile and has no true counter (the other jet? Give me a break. It's an even match with the other jet. And atleast in this thread, we're defining a counter as a superior because that's what the "rock, paper, scissors" system is truly about. And even so, how many jet pilot actually go after the other jet? I bet you didn't obtain you're all mighty 1000000:1 k/d ratio doing that). Unlike a tank, resistance can't get better, so the more these pilots play (and I'm not talking about relative to other people), the better their k/d ratios will get.

A tank driver, for example, gets better as he/she plays more, but so does his/her resistance. People are getting better with the AT, C4, helis and jets. On the other hand, the resistance to airpower is totally luck based. There's no skill involved in the AA missles as they swirve off and hit friendlies most of the time without any logical reason except that there are friendlies in the air. TOWs don't do this. You aim and guide them. Friendly fire is your fault.

What we need is some kind of skill based way to take down aircraft. Even flak won't work, because jets move so fast they can go back and repair all the damage you gave them and more as soon as they go back to the carrier to rearm.

Here are some ideas I have:
-Slower jets. This way they can take more damage than one pass over the carrier could repair during a bombing run.
-Fewer bombs. This way you could have some chance of dodging what a jet throws at you. It would also force the jet pilot to have more skill to get the 27:3 k/d ratio (the 3 either comes from crashing into trees or getting killed with the "n00b"-ejected).

Anyother ideas?

[imported_Sin317]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

they not only reduce armor (not hp , armor) but they also increasing Ground-t-Air and Air-to-Air missiles to lock better on targets.

[Grafisk]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

"Slower jets" ^^ Yeah riiiiiiiight :P
Fewer bombs? Nah, fewer gun-rounds? YES!

I think making them weaker is going to help.

[Alcorr]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I don't like making them weaker. Jets sure but the attack choppers are gonna get owned by stingers now....

[imported_Sin317]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I don't like making them weaker. Jets sure but the attack choppers are gonna get owned by stingers now....

attack chopper are getting owned already.

cal. 50 > any attack chopper ... any chopper actually.

yesterday i had some funny kill tho , i killed a bh with a M28 lol. No idea how that happend. (it was smoking and i kept firing at it lol , the 3rd bullet made it explode and i got 5 kills)

[MarkoMakela]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I totally agree with everything that would make jets less powerful or less effective, maybe because I'm a helicopter addict and they are one of my enemies. When comparing jets to attackhelicopters, I say jets are better for one and only reason: They have less natural enemies and if you get "loads and loads" practise with it, you will easily come "indestructible" (meaning that you are so good that you are almost impossible to shoot down.)

Helicopters on the other hand, have lots of threats.. Those nasty/brave AT-men, tanks, AA-tanks, sometimes APCs and those jeeps & Fast Attack Vehicles.

Natural enemies of the jet: Other jets, AA (which sucks, no skill involved) and maybe TV-guided missiles? Big difference.

But I think they should not decrease airvehicles power much, because in real life they pwnz too. Balance is very difficult to find, and from my view, everything is quite allright now and after the next patch.. I can shoot infantry quite good with my missiles.. allthough that is not the purpose.. Still tanks & other vehicles come first on my "What to kill list", I'm not much into that baseraping.

Still I think that making the jets slower isn't the solution, 2 bombs on fighter and 5 on a bomber is also a good/realistic amount. Is there any other way??? Maybe there isn't, maybe there don't even have to be. Because pwning with jet has a lot of skill involved. (I think) I salute those pilot who can shoot me down from my chopper with only 1 second burst from the mg right through my cockpit. :salute:

I'm only afraid that they make the AA overpowered now... I guess if there are 2 stingers after me, it's quaranteed that I'l go down...

[tjmhay]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I think that it would be fair to increase AA accuracy even against choppers. It just encourages pilot/copilot to be careful when around AA positions. Good flying will often get you out of a missle lock so I don't think it would be a dehabilitating change to helicopter pilots. Timing flares will just be much more crutial, not just the *beep* - click it is now.


It just ****es me off that the 50cals on vehicles are so affective against helicopters and yet when playing the support class it doesn't feel like you can even scratch them.

[BeerStein]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Armor of them down? No need - all that needs to be done is have the missles actually lock on target. Just sucks when you have a chopper hovering right in front of you that does not even flare - and you cannot shoot it down.

Right now the attack choppers can be taken down very easily by light armor 50 cals and jets.

Slow the jets? wtf - hell no. Less bombs? Are you nuts? its 2 and 5 - how can you go less?

Just improve the tracking of the AA and all is settled.

BH's can be taken down with planes, attack choppers, 50 cals - much better now than it was.

[konquerer]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

This solution has been resolved by a real life solution..Most aa Missles in rl are proximity triggered and explode when they get close.In bf2 you need a direct hit and it is way to easy just to out juke or out turn a missle.This would solve the problem no doubt.

Desert combat didnt even have guided stingers but because of the proximity detonation they were very effective.

Also i was thinking maybe put the airbase further away from the flags this way it wouldnt be such a spam fest as pilots would take longer to get back and reload.

And maybe add fuel to planes and when they run out instead of a flyover they have to land to refuel.(yea right this wont happen lol)

[Jesse]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

The engine simple can't handle the tracking of the AA weapons. I don't care how much you tweak the missiles, you're still going to get misses simply because of how this game engine runs. Like the guy above me said, the things need to blow up when they get close, not when they hit. Either that, or give us dumb-fire missiles so skill is involved instead of point, click, and forget as the missile tracks the jet.

The only thing I see wrong with the helicopters is things that should bring them down don't. The 2 major things I mean for this are tank shells and AT rounds. An AT round to the cockpit, near the main rotor or tail rotor should bring the thing down, and anything along the bottom or broadside that isn't near one of those 3 areas should put it onfire. Tank shell should take it down, bar none, no questions asked.

I think the problem with the jets are the scale of the maps, they're too danged cramped. Everything happens in a small area when they COULD make the maps largers, but they don't. When everything is squeezed into an area, the jets appear and disappear to you much faster, because there are no open areas to shoot at them. And even if there was, the draw distance in this game sucks as well. The dynamics of the game are just way off.

All in all, I don't think this will do a darn thing about the planes. Either that, or it's going to be yet another thing EA/DICE doesn't think through and screw something up really bad in the balance. Bottom line is: complainers getting owned by planes will continue complaining, because they're still going to stand there and stare at planes bomb them time and time again without even trying to do anything about it.

[MarkoMakela]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I don't think this will do a darn thing about the planes. Either that, or it's going to be yet another thing EA/DICE doesn't think through and screw something up really bad in the balance. Bottom line is: complainers getting owned by planes will continue complaining, because they're still going to stand there and stare at planes bomb them time and time again without even trying to do anything about it.

Agreed. Pilots will continue owning everyone, teenagers will :cry: . Unless of course some EA/DICE eployees (sp?) cousins son will start complain about them too much.. There's not much you can do for example at Gulf Of Oman's beach..other than grap that damnit "Feeling Lucky?" stinger/IGLA. (I managed to drop one or two planes today actually, but I guess that count on the pilots incompetence )

Still begging those AA-thingys won't get too good. :hmm:

[CommanderD]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

The jets don't need alterating all that needs doing is the missiles and perhaps attack helicopter armour. And once I've used the bombs, the bullets are more deadly.

[iewgnem]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I think everyojne is forgeting JETS HAVE MISSILES TOO

Thats right, at the same time you increase the missile effectiveness against jets, you will be giving all those thousands of wanneb pilots who spam missiles the ability to dominate the air, and unlike good pilots, they dont have a problem with taking off, spam all 6 missiles, hope 1 kill, die, and repeat.

[imported_SpungE]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Turn off the missile warning!

[Red Ghost]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

What I think is quite poor is the fact that a strafing run from a helicopter on a tank or APC, if it doesn't kill you, leaves you in the red, which gives you no time at all to get away from the vehicle before it blows up. The really poor part is that two AT rockets at an attack chopper leaves it on fire and gives a good 4 seconds for any occupants to bail out.

Thats neither balanced or realism, nor is it a fun element of gameplay. Its not like its easy to hit an attack chopper twice with a guided AT considering their speed and size (and the fact that after the first hit they usually scamper back to base).

Just make it so that the BH has the same hitpoints as the attack chopper (this will limit the use of the minigun, because the first hit will make them go away), and make it so that after the second hit its instantly destroyed.

Planes on the other hand are tricky. I can't see (like you said) that reducing the hitpoints is going to do anything, AA doesn't work and hitting with a fixed gun just does not happen. There is no counter like you said. I think perhaps a stinger for the AT class as an option for a smg will give it the extra dimension thats is needed, because you have to either want to take out planes, or defend yourself close up, its a good balance. It will also eliminate the fact that as soon as a plane gets lock on, 9/10 times they know which emplacement its from and can just strafe it.

I have no problems with air power, but there needs to be a counter. As stated people should have to work for their points and cluster-bombing-return to base-repeat does just not cut it.

Its seems that when I play mashtur city as MEC I am the only person that actually wants a fair fight on the ground. I have tried a BH and feel that its boring just mowing people down. I much preffer infantry combat because thats the most balanced part of the game.