Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

[Boojie]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Damn...I couldn't figure out who to quote. I cant remember another thread on here where all the advice was so good. Just when I think "awesome point", the next guy's advice or counterpoint is just as intelligent.

Good stuff.

Ok..let me try a novel idea (that could also be applied to other vehicles).

If you kill one soldier, how much does the enemy lose? I figure maybe a few hundred bucks in uniforms/ammunition/etc.

If you take down a jet, how much does the enemy lose? I figure about $30 million (don't quote me).

Take down a tank? Maybe $10 million?

The jist of the point is this: IRL, if we lose 100 soldiers over in Iraq, we lose some bodies, and we have grieving widows, but not much else. If we lose 100 F-15s over there, that puts a serious dent in our defense budget (plus the hundred bodies, etc.)

Translated into BF2, this would suggest, getting killed while in a jet means a higher cost. Ditto for the helos and tanks.

Now this adds another dimension: want the helo? No problem...just be sure you can withstand the higher "negative point factor" (ie. maybe a -8) if you get shot down. All deaths are not equal.

This of course is in addition to the other nice suggestions made here.

Now it's not just kills. It becomes what are you going to kill with.

[imported_Wreck]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Reduced hitpoints on planes means I can take them down faster with my cannon. I'm all for it.

[filamentsnow]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

how abt a IFF for AA missiles? you would get either a blue or red locked on signal. blue means friendly missiles are coming your way and a simple push of a button means you have identified as friendly. missiles heads for the next target. this will resolve many TKs from AA missiles, especially the USSEX. IMHO USSEX is a very powerful anti-air weapon but the higher possibility of hitting friendlies then enemies puts off lotsa peeps

[KickPhucker]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

If you kill one soldier, how much does the enemy lose? I figure maybe a few hundred bucks in uniforms/ammunition/etc.

Way off on that estimate. It costs the military hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of man-hours to train a soldier. The total cost of training a single soldier is not as much as it costs to build a jet, tank, or helicopter, but the difference in price is not as far off as you might think.
I think there should be a greater reward for killing a tank, helicopter, or plane, than killing a foot soldier. I'm not trying to sound contradictory given my previous statement. But I know I appreciate it a hell of a lot more when a chopper nukes a tank that's owning my mates, or a friendly fighter jock shoots down the enemy bird, or some brave bastard in the stinger blows up the bomber, than when any other single foot soldier is taken out. Along with that I believe there should be a bigger reward for taking out the enemy artillery. As much as I've seen posts from people who hate getting repeatedly blasted by arty, I think that when you can take out the enemy arty you're doing your team a huge favor.
Less armor on planes is an interesting start.
I really like the idea of having plane damage make it more difficult to fly. I've coasted unto the ESSEX in a F-35 with 2 bars of health left and the plane still handeled like it just rolled off the production line.
Damaged plane = poor handling
nuff said.

[Boojie]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Way off on that estimate. It costs the military hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of man-hours to train a soldier. The total cost of training a single soldier is not as much as it costs to build a jet, tank, or helicopter, but the difference in price is not as far off as you might think.

Fair enough. But it costs a hell of a lot more to put a guy through months/years of flight training....after the basic training that the grunt gets (not to mention the 4 years at West Point or the Academy). Put the plane aside...a pilot's loss is far more valuable than a grunt's loss. Then add $30 million. Either way, the differential or delta in costs in equipment was what I was focusing on.

I do like your idea though of extra points for taking down the arty over and above what you currently get.

[KickPhucker]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

True Boojie (And since it seems everyone is at least a sergeant that's an even bigger loss in training and hours.....whatever though. Also....you an engineer by any chance? Not too many people know delta.).
I'm not sure how servers work but how much more work would it take to get kill points based on rank???
You can rack up the kills on some buck private without breaking a sweat but I've had some brutal 1-on-1's with more experienced players that I thought should've been worth multiple kills (at least I got a greater sense of satisfaction from killing them).
As far as air-power goes......
I can tell you that nothing irks me more than getting owned from the skies but that's how it really is. During the 7 days war Israel was able to defeat a numerically superior (and some might argue) equally trained Egyptian army because they were able to take out the opposing aircraft FIRST, then rain death from above on the ground forces. For more references, see: Operation Desert Storm, aka the first gulf war.

[pYura]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

only tankwhores whine about aircrafts... if you hate them so much, play SF or smaller maps where you have a 0% possibility to meet a jet. lol

[BigBadBob]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I think that it would be fair to increase AA accuracy even against choppers. It just encourages pilot/copilot to be careful when around AA positions. Good flying will often get you out of a missle lock so I don't think it would be a dehabilitating change to helicopter pilots. Timing flares will just be much more crutial, not just the *beep* - click it is now.


It just ****es me off that the 50cals on vehicles are so affective against helicopters and yet when playing the support class it doesn't feel like you can even scratch them.

yea, but the stinger nests respawn way too quick. Once they are down, they should be down for 45 seconds. I haven't spent much time in them, but have destroyed 1 (saw it explode with it's user) , flew my jet back to the carrier and reloaded (Wake Island) and came back, it was up again with someone in it.

[DrunkenPirate]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

As long as aircraft go down after getting hit by a SABOT round I'll be happy :p

[Ruhanga]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Problem is that RockPaperSciccors circle is incomplete. It goes like this now.
Infratry <- Tanks <- Copters <- Jets <-???
If jets are the stones, then where is the paper? Thats the problem, AA is not a paper, its more like a another weak stone whick beats the sciccors(=copters). Jets need a opponent, natural predator.
And don't tell me the paper is another jet, that doesn't work. As Tanks also counter Tanks, Inf counter other Inf and copters counter copters.

But there may be a way jet could be the paper, counter to jets. No bombs, removing all the air-to-ground abilities of jets. also reduce the machine guns are attack. If we can make the jets only battle for air space, it could work.

[Flashpoint2]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I just wanna say that i agree with what the first guy said. Jets have no natural enemies so its boring to play with them. Everyhing else in the game has a counter.

[MarkoMakela]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

IMHO USSEX is a very powerful anti-air weapon but the higher possibility of hitting friendlies then enemies puts off lotsa peeps

Firstly.. what does IMHO mean? In My Honest Opinion? Why not just IMO?
Secondly.. What on earth is USSEX? US_SEX?? You must mean USS ESSEX (The Carrier?)

Ok, but are they given the chance? You can't bail from a chopper in real life (yes I know, nothing to do with the game), and for balance sake shouldn't the AT guys be rewarded with a kill for their good shooting

In my case, I don't care about the 1 second chance.. If I bail, I wont die --> I won't respawn ---> I won't get my chopper. So usually I just wait for my death.

Lastly, There is one thing I hate about these forums.. I can't copy / paste text.

[HABO3]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I always play around with this idea in my head...

What if the stinger site was like a fixed AA tv guided missile?

The missile would be just slightly faster and more manuverable than a jet, it could be sped up and slowed down to catch the target BUT the AA warhead would require a certain amount of velocity to be achieved when impacting the target because it would be really stupid if the jet was going 700 kph and you touch the jet with the warhead at 705 kph and so this way you would have to telegraph the missile to intercept the jets flight path and you would only get maybe two passes to try and hit the plane before the missile ran out of gas er whatever?

It could turn evading missiles into a game in itself kinda like cat and mouse, instead of drop flares and bank.

I think that would separate the good AA defenders from the noobs, the way stingers are now you just click a button....and that's it. There's no skill involved, if they made the missile tv guided and a pilot got blown out of the sky constantly he'll know "damn they got someone good on that stinger down there" instead of "son of a bitch got lucky"

The only problem is that people would try to fire the stingers to hit snipers on the other side of the map or something. You could make it so that the missile only fires when there is a lock and that would solve half the problem.

I love these little brainstorms they're so pointless.

[Flashpoint2]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

I always play around with this idea in my head...

What if the stinger site was like a fixed AA tv guided missile?

The missile would be just slightly faster and more manuverable than a jet, it could be sped up and slowed down to catch the target BUT the AA warhead would require a certain amount of velocity to be achieved when impacting the target because it would be really stupid if the jet was going 700 kph and you touch the jet with the warhead at 705 kph and so this way you would have to telegraph the missile to intercept the jets flight path and you would only get maybe two passes to try and hit the plane before the missile ran out of gas er whatever?

It could turn evading missiles into a game in itself kinda like cat and mouse, instead of drop flares and bank.

I think that would separate the good AA defenders from the noobs, the way stingers are now you just click a button....and that's it. There's no skill involved, if they made the missile tv guided and a pilot got blown out of the sky constantly he'll know "damn they got someone good on that stinger down there" instead of "son of a bitch got lucky"

The only problem is that people would try to fire the stingers to hit snipers on the other side of the map or something. You could make it so that the missile only fires when there is a lock and that would solve half the problem.

I love these little brainstorms they're so pointless.

Damn good idea. I want a skilll based counter to jets.

[Habloc]

Re: Is decreased hit points going to fix the airpower problem? I say no.

Easy fix for the jets would be to turn off their bloody christmas lights, I mean why should every darn vehicle or mounted gun light up like they do...