Why do people hack?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Why do people hack?

Sometimes those admins aren't on. It's even worse in games where there are no administrators like RTS's or Online RPG's.

Take a major gaming community or populated clan like dA!, theres almost always an admin on.

We ran a great clan in SWAT4, with about 40 members active (100 semi active) members who were almost all admins. Our servers were covered 100%, 24/7.

For RTS games, you can always leave if you think they are hacking. And if you DONT know whether they are hacking or not, you can always give them the benefit of the doubt, no?

I have fun competing fairly, yes.

But how do know if they are competing fairly or not? If you arent sure, then whats the difference? Youre being rolled anyway, skill or downloadable skill. The difference would be, if the guy is hacking obviously to get caught, hes banned. If hes hacking so that nobody knows- ignorance would be a bliss for you, mon cherri.

Just like in high school Basketball, I was a good player; and there were a lot of far better players who were naturally taller than I am.

Meaning, like a league game? In those, theres something more than ust "fun" at stake, so your reaction would be justified.

[Dairuka]

Re: Why do people hack?

Take a major gaming community or populated clan like dA!, theres almost always an admin on.

Yet, dA! itself cheats. Thats a horrible example. I know? Lets talk about Moongamers. Oh... another bad example. How about Rockhead?... crap, yet another bad example. I'm 0 for 3.

For RTS games, you can always leave if you think they are hacking. And if you DONT know whether they are hacking or not, you can always give them the benefit of the doubt, no?

Most RTS games nowadays come with a battle recorder for both sides. I am usually suspicious of a player while I'm playing against them, and the proof doesn't come along until something blatantly obvious shows itself in the replay. Even if they're caught, it's not like theres anybody to report to... and I've already wasted my time losing horribly to a somebody with an obscenely large advantage over me. All I'm left with is a bitter taste in my mouth.

Whats left after that? Stoop to their level and cheat back? Wheres the fun in that. =/

But how do know if they are competing fairly or not? If you arent sure, then whats the difference? Youre being rolled anyway, skill or downloadable skill. The difference would be, if the guy is hacking obviously to get caught, hes banned. If hes hacking so that nobody knows- ignorance would be a bliss for you, mon cherri.

Agreed. Ignorance would be a bliss. I'm not going to be redundant though, so feel free to read one of my previous posts regarding this very same topic.

Meaning, like a league game? In those, theres something more than just "fun" at stake, so your reaction would be justified.

Good point on that, but it's still just a game.

[dremanu]

Re: Why do people hack?

There's really no need to use hacks at this game, it's so pathetic that some people actually resort to do it. Anybody can be a decent player at this game. Find a class you can be good at it, and stick with it, eventually you can probably almost play it with your eyes closed.

It's not by luck, or chance that the best pilots are the best pilots, or the best tankers are the best, they are it, because they have dedicated the time to learn how to be good at what they do. Some guys will be naturally excelent, or outstanding, at almost anything, but if you're not, you can still be good enough at something by just working at being good with it.

[TheButler208]

Re: Why do people hack?

last night some idiot did the car drop hack on the gzr server. Then the guy decides hes going to try a different hack later on a different map. Well we had a GzR flying the cobra while he was not in a squad. At a high altitude way above everything, out of no where this guy just hops in the gunner seat... hhmmmm wonder who the hacker is? Smart guy.

[vesuvan]

Re: Why do people hack?

Well i got caught hacking awhile back, why did i do it?.

Interesting reading your posts and those who caught you. Glad too see that you owned up to your mistake and admitted regret for using hacks. As you and others mentioned, your credibility has been ruined but a least you've regained some respect from those in the BF2 community.

It's also valuable incite from your point of view explaining why you did it, what hacks you used and how you got caught. A truly rare example of a long-time & skilled BF2 player who was curious about using hacks, went to the dark side, got caught and fully admitted blame.

However, I wonder how far you would have gone if you didn't get caught?

I agree with Dairuka & dremanu. Wondering if a person is hacking or simply outperforming you ruins the game for the experienced/skilled players who play fair.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Why do people hack?

Dairuka-san, youre constantly leaving an impression as if cheaters are taking something away from you every time you play with them. Youre a solid player, which makes me conclude that what they take, is your "win" or "victory". Which also makes me think that youre bitter because youre not the best. My point still stands- if you have accepted that youre not the best, and are playing for fun only, ignorance would be a bliss. If you think youre the best (one of the best), then youre arrogant. Not as a character, but your expectations.

Yet, dA! itself cheats. Thats a horrible example. I know? Lets talk about Moongamers. Oh... another bad example. How about Rockhead?... crap, yet another bad example. I'm 0 for 3.

I was actually trying to make a joke. Ive actually had quite fond memories with MoonGamers. But there was strafeRight, RR, FMJ, CainsLair and probably a messload of others, not to mention some EU communities youd probably never venture to.

Most RTS games nowadays come with a battle recorder for both sides. I am usually suspicious of a player while I'm playing against them, and the proof doesn't come along until something blatantly obvious shows itself in the replay. Even if they're caught, it's not like theres anybody to report to... and I've already wasted my time losing horribly to a somebody with an obscenely large advantage over me. All I'm left with is a bitter taste in my mouth.

This is what Im talking about. With high skills, comes an arrogant expectation of a victory. Its not the fun that is "taken" from you, its the fun of winning. While its a force that drives a player forward to improvement, its also a huge factor in being disappointed over trivial things... like hackers in a game.

Whats left after that? Stoop to their level and cheat back? Wheres the fun in that. =/

Accepting that you cant do anything about that ultimately leads to satisfaction from fun games.

[stilla-killa]

Re: Why do people hack?

Its either porn or hacking, you can't have both. So which one would you choose.

[Ghost']

Re: Why do people hack?

to ask a question like that is to ask :
IS THERE A LIFE AFTER DEATH?!

so dont bother asking dumb questions! there are million answers

[stilla-killa]

Re: Why do people hack?

to ask a question like that is to ask :
IS THERE A LIFE AFTER DEATH?!

so dont bother asking dumb questions! there are million answers

No there is no such thing as a stupid question, theres only stupid people asking them.

[Dairuka]

Re: Why do people hack?

Dairuka-san, youre constantly leaving an impression as if cheaters are taking something away from you every time you play with them. Youre a solid player, which makes me conclude that what they take, is your "win" or "victory".

Isn't that what fair competition is about? Playing to win? Why else would I go around capping flags when I could mindlessly join the fray at Karkand's Hotel?

It's just a game, but the whole purpose of a game is to win. If somebody blatantly cheats at a game, robbing you of any (Thats what aimbots do) chance at victory, what then is the purpose of you playing that game?

Ask yourself a thousand times; "is it fun to have no chance of victory?"

Skilled players make way more mistakes than an aimbot in a game like CS does. Just because BF2 has random deviation doesn't mean it's any less frustrating to come up against.

I was actually trying to make a joke. Ive actually had quite fond memories with MoonGamers. But there was strafeRight, RR, FMJ, CainsLair and probably a messload of others, not to mention some EU communities youd probably never venture to.

My time with Moongamers was when it was over-run with the retards from the www.gamefaqs.com forum. Worse yet were the few administrators there who practically invented the Karkand Hotel Glitch. How do you kick vote an administrator? Urgh.

Although, I've personally had good memories of my stint on the FMJ server. Too bad they only play Karkand, which is my most hated stage.

This is what Im talking about. With high skills, comes an arrogant expectation of a victory. Its not the fun that is "taken" from you, its the fun of winning. While its a force that drives a player forward to improvement, its also a huge factor in being disappointed over trivial things... like hackers in a game.

It's not the expectation of victory. It's the chance.

If somebody is using an aimbot, the chance of victory goes down drastically to the point where it becomes futile. There is no fun in futility. I am not Sisyphus, so I don't push rocks up a hill.

Accepting that you cant do anything about that ultimately leads to satisfaction from fun games.

More like a reason to quit the game forever. Which is what I have done with all the games listed previously. I don't want to quit BF2 over cheaters; so instead I'm taking after my hero Capt.HKS and I'm fighting back.

I take cheating very personally. It's been a pet peeve of mine for 14 years.

[Ins]

Re: Why do people hack?

Interesting reading your posts and those who caught you. Glad too see that you owned up to your mistake and admitted regret for using hacks. As you and others mentioned, your credibility has been ruined but a least you've regained some respect from those in the BF2 community.

It's also valuable incite from your point of view explaining why you did it, what hacks you used and how you got caught. A truly rare example of a long-time & skilled BF2 player who was curious about using hacks, went to the dark side, got caught and fully admitted blame.

I'd already stopped using them by the time Leki posted about it(like he posted he was away for a week). It just wasn't the same, i had no need to go around a corner wondering if someone could be there, ready to hop around, and beat them fairly. I knew where people were and it just took the enjoyment out of it.

However, I wonder how far you would have gone if you didn't get caught?

As for me i already have the skill to play without, but for those that get owned whatever they do, i can see it being like a drug, once you try it there's no looking back. Why give up being able to own everyone and enjoy the game for getting owned and generally not enjoying it.

Most RTS games nowadays come with a battle recorder for both sides. I am usually suspicious of a player while I'm playing against them, and the proof doesn't come along until something blatantly obvious shows itself in the replay. Even if they're caught, it's not like theres anybody to report to... and I've already wasted my time losing horribly to a somebody with an obscenely large advantage over me. All I'm left with is a bitter taste in my mouth.

In RTS it's different, most cases it's you vs the hacker where you will get beaten. In BF2, unless they have the best hacks, a group of players can take them down and keep them down. Yeah they might rack up alot of points, but with a squad you can revive and save your own stats. 1 vs 1 against a hacker in bf2 = pwned.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Why do people hack?

Isn't that what fair competition is about? Playing to win? Why else would I go around capping flags when I could mindlessly join the fray at Karkand's Hotel?

Well, for one, a round in BF2 isnt competition for everyone. Its competition for those who play to win for each and every round. This was a stimuli for me for the first few hundred hours, I think.

It's just a game, but the whole purpose of a game is to win. If somebody blatantly cheats at a game, robbing you of any (Thats what aimbots do) chance at victory, what then is the purpose of you playing that game?

Which brings us back to my ultimate point- for an inexperienced player, whats the difference between being rolled by a cheater, or a skilled player? None, combined with ignorance being a bliss, cheating becomes a non-factor for them.

Cheating only matters to (individuals) those people who feel they are getting robbed. Expecting to win, or playing to win requires a fair ammont of arrogance.

Ask yourself a thousand times; "is it fun to have no chance of victory?"

My time with Moongamers was when it was over-run with the retards from the www.gamefaqs.com forum. Worse yet were the few administrators there who practically invented the Karkand Hotel Glitch. How do you kick vote an administrator? Urgh.

Ouch, never had such an xperience. I know they can be pretty harsh with their rules.

It's not the expectation of victory. It's the chance.

Same thing, you just like to flatter yourself with making it look prettier.

If somebody is using an aimbot, the chance of victory goes down drastically to the point where it becomes futile. There is no fun in futility. I am not Sisyphus, so I don't push rocks up a hill.

Apply my analogy of skilled players vs inexperienced ones.

More like a reason to quit the game forever. Which is what I have done with all the games listed previously. I don't want to quit BF2 over cheaters; so instead I'm taking after my hero Capt.HKS and I'm fighting back.

Touché, probably the reason why I dropped BF2 a year ago...

[Dairuka]

Re: Why do people hack?

Well, for one, a round in BF2 isnt competition for everyone. Its competition for those who play to win for each and every round. This was a stimuli for me for the first few hundred hours, I think.

It's the only thing keeping me going. Hopefully it continues for at least a while longer.

Which brings us back to my ultimate point- for an inexperienced player, whats the difference between being rolled by a cheater, or a skilled player? None, combined with ignorance being a bliss, cheating becomes a non-factor for them.

Skilled players can be ambushed when theres no UAV up, unlike map and wall-hackers.

Skilled players can make more mistakes, resulting in way more misses and far less head-shots than aim-bots.

Skilled players can't see everything on the ground or around him, unlike fog busters, and wall-hackers.

You can discern who a skilled player is, because hes not name hacking.

Thats a pretty big difference between skilled players and cheaters.

Cheating only matters to (individuals) those people who feel they are getting robbed. Expecting to win, or playing to win requires a fair ammont of arrogance.

Then why does every newbie in the world cry about hackers at every turn?

Literally, every, newbie.

Ouch, never had such an xperience. I know they can be pretty harsh with their rules.

I only played there because at the time they were the only server frequently playing Songhua Stalemate.

Same thing, you just like to flatter yourself with making it look prettier.

Considering this part of the debate here is getting redundant, I'm going to go a different direction:

Theres tens of thousands of 'skilled' players out there. I guess our opinion of fun doesn't matter, because we're marginally better than the average newbie?; Or is it because we're the only ones in the game actively trying to win the game?; Maybe it's because we're actually intelligent enough to realize that there are malicious jackoffs out there?

Different play-styles make for different ideals of fun. So what? Regardless of the playstyle, or however you look at it. A Cheater does nothing but rain on the BF2 parade.

Touché, probably the reason why I dropped BF2 a year ago...

With every cheater in the game, there are probably three people quitting angry at the people who cheat. With all the people quitting, the servers will eventually be barren. Do you honestly think the newbies will enjoy BF2 if theres nobody to play with?

Cheating is not a victimless crime. It's effects whether immediate or long-term are purely detrimental on a community. You can't convince me otherwise.

There is, and never will be any justification, or up-side to a person cheating.

[lamah]

Re: Why do people hack?

mostly because they suck

next question :P

[Gun slinger]

Re: Why do people hack?

There is, and never will be any justification, or up-side to a person cheating.

I beg to differ, although its a rare occasion, I got a friend that hacks because he lost all vision in his left eye and partial vision in his right eye when he got hit with a shrapnel from a grenade over in Iraq. The way he explained it to me was that in order for him to keep playing the games he loved he has to use hacks because he cant tell friend from enemy and without an aimbot he cant hit the side of a building let alone a player. He uses a configurable hack that puts players name tag above the enemy and has his aimbot configured for aiming at the body of a player so he doesnt raise any suspicion. He says that with these configurations he is average at best and can be beaten by any seasoned veteran. He plays mostly UT2K4 and CS:S with a rare occasion playing BF2.
Would I turn him in, HELL no!! Is it justifiable that he uses hacks? Yeah in my opinion it is.