Proposed Changelog for POE2

[donpost]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I think that's a REALLY bad idea.

Scenario:

Gunner gets into arty. Looks at his sheet of paper for range and vector of the enemy armor base exit. Becomes commander. Starts firing. Drops supplies on himself. Continues firing so that NOTHING can leave the enemy base. Other team leaves and gunner gets victory while the teams are 2:1.

Newcomers arrive only to see an arty barrage hitting the exit of their base. They begin looking for spotters but find none. Someone finds out that all you have to do is remember the coordinates and dial them in. They think it's an idiotic (but perhaps realistic) way to do arty in a video game and complain to the developers. Rinse and repeat and that feature goes away.

That scenario could happen with the arty even if/when this change occurs. Simply get someone to spot the entrance to the armour base, get your range, then keep spamming after each spot.

I think most bases have more than one exit as well so this shouldn't be much of an issue.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

That scenario could happen with the arty even if/when this change occurs. Simply get someone to spot the entrance to the armour base, get your range, then keep spamming after each spot.

I think most bases have more than one exit as well so this shouldn't be much of an issue.

Here is something else to chew on.

During a map after several high traffic targets are engaged and destroyed... the ranges and bearings as well as firing positions are "Memorized" by the gunner. Eventually gunner has a mental map that is a image of ranges, bearings and firing positions sorta like a dot matrix grid in his head.

If a map is played often enough it becomes memorized and it will be no problem to quickly set the artillery up, in fact it makes it faster to set up and get the first round on it's way.

That is called acquired skill. The only problems after that is varibles such as enemy reacting to the artillery in a variety of ways and it is easier to think about how to defend yourself while killing the enemy 700 yards away.

I already had enemy tanks come over the hill 100 yards away looking for me. It was no problem depressing the gun barrel, kill the tank one shot and quickly raise it back up to resume the barrage who are catching enemies coming out of hiding thinking that the shelling stopped.

Counter Battery is and always is the best way to kill enemy artillery. For that to work you need a system of ranging and target acquiring.

POE left the UAV out of the game entirely. Why not use that for the gunner to use the onboard camera and discover if there is enemies below it after deploying it?

After a while it goes away and has to be recharged, just like it did for the commander in vanilla BF2. The restriction is this: Only the artillery gunner has the data from the UAV, this would prevent one team from converging on that enemy formation and killing everything.

If the gunner wants to share the information with the team he can.

Today's UAV have cameras, laser targeting and other sensors that works very well when partnered with any number of weapons systems including infantry.

[EyeofG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

WTF
PoE2 is fine as is
Who the H was Whineing!?
Also, wouldn't mind a UAV on all maps

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

WTF
PoE2 is fine as is
Who the H was Whineing!?
Also, wouldn't mind a UAV on all maps

its not fine as is. although heavy(awg) may not be one of the folks that does this - most commanders will not drop supplies because they are too busy with arty.

in addition - there are more additions :)

its not fine as is - there is more work to be done to make it a breakthrough mod.

hopefully one that satisfies most tastes. UAV's are lame as hell and shouldn't be in PoE.

That scenario could happen with the arty even if/when this change occurs. Simply get someone to spot the entrance to the armour base, get your range, then keep spamming after each spot.

you're right - but you'd still be able to negate the spotter.

also - you'd get a chance to get out of the base before the spotter gets there. imagine someone who is first in the server and doesn't need a spotter to rape the main.

just playing devils advocate.

Counter Battery is and always is the best way to kill enemy artillery. For that to work you need a system of ranging and target acquiring.

well memorizing positions has always been a problem for arty in most games without dynamic skies (they can still use buildings).

as far as what i quoted; they do have that system. Target acquisition is done by spotters, ranging is done by hitting "M" and checking map distance to arty symbol and lining it up. This will all become mental soon and it will be much easier. I don't think that arty will be any more effective with all the systems you are asking for, it will just make it more complicated and easier to exploit.

As far as the UAV - i like no one having it. Nothing gets me more than being a sniper (rarely) and then seeing a UAV above me. I liked being in Desert Combat where you could be sneaky. If anyone has a UAV it will make it hard to be sneaky because there is always a chat system.

In addition - UAV's and scans make it almost impossible to save your team when you have no flags and you're trying to sneak across the map to an unpopulated flag to take and bring your whole team back (what a feeling eh?)

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

its not fine as is. although heavy(awg) may not be one of the folks that does this - most commanders will not drop supplies because they are too busy with arty.

in addition - there are more additions :)

its not fine as is - there is more work to be done to make it a breakthrough mod.

hopefully one that satisfies most tastes. UAV's are lame as hell and shouldn't be in PoE.



you're right - but you'd still be able to negate the spotter.

also - you'd get a chance to get out of the base before the spotter gets there. imagine someone who is first in the server and doesn't need a spotter to rape the main.

just playing devils advocate.



well memorizing positions has always been a problem for arty in most games without dynamic skies (they can still use buildings).

as far as what i quoted; they do have that system. Target acquisition is done by spotters, ranging is done by hitting "M" and checking map distance to arty symbol and lining it up. This will all become mental soon and it will be much easier. I don't think that arty will be any more effective with all the systems you are asking for, it will just make it more complicated and easier to exploit.

As far as the UAV - i like no one having it. Nothing gets me more than being a sniper (rarely) and then seeing a UAV above me. I liked being in Desert Combat where you could be sneaky. If anyone has a UAV it will make it hard to be sneaky because there is always a chat system.

In addition - UAV's and scans make it almost impossible to save your team when you have no flags and you're trying to sneak across the map to an unpopulated flag to take and bring your whole team back (what a feeling eh?)

Hyummm....

Im glad you are standing up to me Troy, I too think that the UAV gives away too much in POE. I simply thought that if no one is using it then reserve it strictly for the gunner inside the artillery and lose the satellite stuff.

The supply box is really irrevelant in POE now. I do drop it where it is asked for as a commander (After the first box to the arty =) Not too many will ask for it.

Once POE is updated the commander will just be another GI with a magic map and a supply box button. Hardly a force to be reckoned with. His only saving grace is that a very poor infantry player can get elected commander and sit under a rock all map and gain uber points for all his contribution to the game doing nothing.

BF1942 is easier to fight because there is no technology. Everything is iron. The difference in the artillery in that game and POE is that the POE actually has moving artillery as did DC. DC it is easy to establish on the hill on the edge of the map and pound a enemy base into submission.

But in POE you have forests, hills and valleys between you and many bases. If you wasted the time and actually got a artillery on top of a hill you would be destroyed immediately if the enemy team is any good. But trying to hide a fat artillery unit that warns half the map on the boom of it's first shot is kind of like trying to hide a pink elephant inside a zoo.

There are many good firing positions, no issue with noob drivers running off with the arty, firepower is more than adequate. It's the matter of addressing that wonderful mistake that was discovered when people learned the Commander's Satellite is the best way to aim the artillery.

Now they want to fix that too? That will be another mistake. I dont see any other way of fixing the artillery in the game because it was stated spotting wont work in one step, it needs two. The orginal gunners target view when he DOES recieve a valid spot does not work. The only thing left to do is put something in the game so that a gunner can sit in the artillery and actually aim it at a "X" anywhere in range and have a hope of hitting something.

If POE cannot find a fix or decide what to do with the arty, then remove the entire artillery system from the game and save us all the trouble of trying to discover the next best method of making it work effectively.

The reason I have not addressed any of the other stuff in POE is because I am quite content with all of that other stuff.. particularly the German Attack Chopper.. that thing goes where you think instead of having to worry about that crappy joystick or pig airlines type control.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

UAV's and scans make it almost impossible to save your team when you have no flags and you're trying to sneak across the map to an unpopulated flag to take and bring your whole team back (what a feeling eh?)

I agree there. I prefer the days of DC by far, and prefer being able to tip the balance of a lost game with some calculated hide and seek.

Remember the end of a great DC round, when one perosn was left, and the other team would spread out to look for him at all possible flags. Much better system for gamepley. Its hard to not use the technology of the UAVm since its there, but I prefer it not be around.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I agree there. I prefer the days of DC by far, and prefer being able to tip the balance of a lost game with some calculated hide and seek.

Remember the end of a great DC round, when one perosn was left, and the other team would spread out to look for him at all possible flags. Much better system for gamepley. Its hard to not use the technology of the UAVm since its there, but I prefer it not be around.

We used to have tools like spec ops to destroy UAV's

But I think all the spec ops are running about trying to get the Expert Explosives and forgot thier basic mission, destroying commander assets.

[imported_Casper]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Change log looks ok.

I am on the fence about the commander and arty roles. Its hard to master and still requires skill. I never saw people complaining about it and have seen a lot of people upset about removing the ability. Just dont be like EA and start changing things for the hell of it.

Sooooooo glad you guys dropped UAV and Scan. They had to be the lamest things I had ever seen. This has been a big part of why I enjoy your mod. Its really cool to see you guys finding new things to replace those features too. Such as the smoke. What about flairs for the night map? How about letting the commander drop some pick up kits or drop some mines for a road?

Marder and Bmp change is cool. I did not like the TV rocket system. I am excited to see how this will work out.

Other than that I really have been enjoying the mod. As I said I hope you guys dont change too much as it was pretty good at your .1 release. Dont be like EA.

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

OUTSTANDING!

Does this mean you need to "Lock the vehicle?" just prior to opening fire on the enemy? Or is it a total removal of the driver's seat? If not, then how does it work?

This is pure speculation, but I imagine they'd simply impliment what they had in DC. The only way to enter the driver seat is FROM the gunner seat. So when you get in the vehicle you are the gunner, then you have to hit F1 to get to the driver seat. This means that while no one can get into the drivers seat except the gunner, if you're motoring along someone can steal the gunner position (which is less frustrating than the former)

More replies to come regarding your latest post :)

[jilted]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Neg troybob, that functionality has been removed from BF2. We did it through python to turn the 'engine' off.

[ThunderPimp]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Neg troybob, that functionality has been removed from BF2. We did it through python to turn the 'engine' off.

Okay so someone can enter while you are in the gunner seat, but they can't move the arty? Thats what I'm getting from it.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Okay so someone can enter while you are in the gunner seat, but they can't move the arty? Thats what I'm getting from it.

Me too.

Why not just remove the drivers seat and be done with it. There is going to be problems when a gunner gets to the vehicle at default and wants to go and the driver sitting in it wondering WTF? Why does it not go?

I still stand by what I said regarding accurate and stable targeting views for the gunner.

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Why not just remove the drivers seat and be done with it. There is going to be problems when a gunner gets to the vehicle at default and wants to go and the driver sitting in it wondering WTF? Why does it not go?

I doubt it will be bad. I wouldn't want the arty to be driving and shooting at the same time. That's for balance and I think it should stay 2-man. I doubt a guy will get in and stay in for long if it doesn't move. He'll just move on (no pun intended)

HOWEVER, what happens if your driving the thing down the road and someone hops in? Does it shut down and you have to yell at them to get out of the gunm?

[ThunderPimp]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Well the only way that would work is if the driver seat is the only enterable point on the arty from outside the vehicle. That way when you are driving no one can enter. Then when you switch to gunner someone can get in, but not move the arty. That is how I would fix it.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Well the only way that would work is if the driver seat is the only enterable point on the arty from outside the vehicle. That way when you are driving no one can enter. Then when you switch to gunner someone can get in, but not move the arty. That is how I would fix it.

Too complicated.

The old SP's from the 80's at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds have you entering the artillery breech loading area and then crawling to the front where the driver's controls are.

If you are using the mouse to elevate and traverse the arty, nothing is being used on the WASD keys and the arty should not go anywhere.