Announcement

**Forest** · 09-17-2006, 10:06 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Is there any chance the new smoke efx has less an impact on performance? Right now the only lag I get on POE is the time after loading a map and while running through smoke, and I'm worried the new smoke barrage would increase that greatly.

**D_FAST** · 09-17-2006, 10:10 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

If u didnt lag in bf2 arty strikes then u wont lag in this, matter infact this has less emitters then that efx bundle. And doesnt last anymore then a normal smoke grenade, and yes the normal frag grenade efx has been optimized as well, from 4 emitter to 2.

**Heavy552 AWG** · 09-17-2006, 10:11 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I fear the artillery will suffer great damage to the functionality with the removal of the Commander.

Both the Commander and the Artillery go hand in hand together in BF2 and I see that the tradition will be divorced with this proposed changelog.

You are going to need to consider giving the artillery gunner a stable view of the spotted target and the ability to work targets such as icons generated on the map or spin map when a teammate yells "Enemy armor spotted".

This proposed changelog threatens to pernamently nerf both the commander and the artillery and render it useful only as a very big vehicle with a gun that can kill enemy tanks in one shot. A little seat switching and a spot of driving into town to kill tanks will get the job done.

I am disappointed but am not surprised at the news. I consider it a trend in gaming to remove functionality of major weapons systems and this changelog only reinforces the trend.

**Forest** · 09-17-2006, 10:19 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Heavy the artillery system is still being worked on. Just because the commander screen cannot be used to divert the teamplay aspect of spotting does not mean its removing functionality.

**Heavy552 AWG** · 09-17-2006, 11:15 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Originally posted by Forest

Heavy the artillery system is still being worked on. Just because the commander screen cannot be used to divert the teamplay aspect of spotting does not mean its removing functionality.

This screenshot shows a moving enemy artillery killing tanks at close range.

I was several hundred yards from MY default and ranged in at about 840 yards to remove the enemy artillery problem. There were more enemy armor coming out of default up the road.

It's time the arty got to work and the result at the third shot:

The rest of the map consisted of destroying the enemies wherever they threatened a base and it was extremely busy for a long time in that battle. I am absolutely convinced that you cannot have victory without effective artillery support. That one battle cemented this belief and formed the cornerstone of my position.

I am willing to see what changes that comes to this artillery in the game but.. it MUST be effective and NOT DEPENDANT on teammates spotting system as outlined in the orginal POE Manual.

Why?

The first few battles in artillery waiting for spots resulted in just three spots that lasted about 60 seconds each over 30 minutes of spamming "ARTILLERY READY" every 30 seconds or so. The resulting artillery engagements of spotted targets were a failue and will continue to FAIL until an effective system is placed into the artillery.

I point to Novalogic's Joint Operations artillery system of ranging with the Mortor weapon as one of the best ways to have effective artillery but not so overpowering as to be able to 155mm snipe running individual infantry hiding inside a building doorway or under a rock at will.

Also the artillery is a "One speed" operation in POE. There are different modes such as Rapid fire that can sustain about 10 rounds a minute for a short time until heat builds up. But I suspect the Developers and gamers dont want to be buried in such barrages.

I think that the danger is the whiners and noobs threatens to render the artillery ineffective and cause it to be a gigantic eye-candy/ear candy and tank killer noise maker. No one will respect it's potential or fear it because it cannot kill anything after nerfting. Therefore it is a waste of game resources and OUR TIME trying to play the system.

I admit that using the commander satellite to pick out an enemy individual target either soldier or enemy armor (Or anything in between) is a little bit too much like playing God. I see him/her therfore that gamer dies on the field of battle from hundreds of yards away.

There are not many people who understands such precision is possible. That is why I advocated using Laser assisted spotting so that the spotter can lase a target and a Copperhead type shell can KILL that exact target (Or lased spot) allowing both spotter and artillery gunner to share in the kill and it's joy of success.

You also need to address the "Instant" respawn screen that shows up for enemy players destroyed by arty. They have no visual, audio or any clue that they got killed except the kill chat screen. There is no "Big stun" effect for the shells that were close but no cigar. I suspect the possibility of weak connections and computers is simply too risky for those who are marginally able to stay in a server.

One artillery unit is in POE for each side. In order to have effective artillery effect upon an enemy-held town or village you need many artillery rounds in a very small area.

I find the rest of the Fixes pretty good but Artillery is one item that I will try and defend during the constructive feedback.

**jilted** · 09-18-2006, 12:00 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

We never intended nor realized artillery would/could be used in this manner and are taking effective steps to 'fix' this issue. We stated quite early (once people began mentioning how it was being used), that we didnt intend for it to be used this way and were going to fix it.

A sound has been added to both artillery rounds:
_PZH2000
.added sound to projectile

_M1974
.added sound to projectile

That should let people know whats going on.

**Heavy552 AWG** · 09-18-2006, 12:15 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Originally posted by jilted

We never intended nor realized artillery would/could be used in this manner and are taking effective steps to 'fix' this issue. We stated quite early (once people began mentioning how it was being used), that we didnt intend for it to be used this way and were going to fix it.

A sound has been added to both artillery rounds:
_PZH2000
.added sound to projectile

_M1974
.added sound to projectile

That should let people know whats going on.

Affirmative.

Then allow the gunner a static satellite display that degrades over about 2 minutes, remove the "Following the shell" animation that rapidly blurs the landscape needed for visual fire adjustment of over's and shorts (Or wides left and right)

Possibly a ranging system that precisely elevates the cannon to a precise position for any range from 100 to 800 with a step of 25 yards so that the gunner can enter the spotted target's range from his artillery to whatever target seen by the teammate with enough visual satellite screen view and time to get the shell onto the actual target. Most people can do this within a few seconds and by the third shot but some still needs a little time to complete the engagment.

If I remember the Novalogic's JO Mortor range system it gave you one yard steps but had an error of plus or minus 10 yards which is adequate for engaging non moving enemy armor at about 200 yards or less from behind a hill. using Binoculars for range data.

To take this one step further and to simulate the networked data in today's miltary allow the arty to engage targets spotted via armor and vechular gunsights.

The spotted enemy target can use the sounds you issued to the artillery shell to understand that he or she has the attention of the artillery and should clear the area immediately.

It has been my experience that most people tend to pick a direction AWAY from the first shell that hit nearby and flee directly out of the base, armor concentration or other target group recieving the arty.

The ones that stay usually die.

Try to provide some kind of mechanism to keep people from jumping into a firing artillery unit (Which is usually closed up anyways) and driving off destroying any chance of a successful prosecution of the enemy.

If such a mechanism is installed then it will remove the need to take pro-active "Anti-noob" measures such as sticking C4 all over the driver's view port armed and ready to remove problem driver.

That will help dont ya think?

**ThunderPimp** · 09-18-2006, 12:32 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Originally posted by jilted

That should let people know whats going on.

What does this mean? Were people not aware that arty was falling on their position or something?

**jilted** · 09-18-2006, 12:48 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Well, without a sound, it would often strike and the only way you would know you died was from the message. Now its a little more obvious.

I dont see it noted in the changelog, but we have fixed the issue of people getting in your arty and moving it while its being fired.

**Fumang** · 09-18-2006, 01:35 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

**GameModes**
_Frontline
.made it so that if a team loses their main base the ticket bleed is set to 10 per second for losing team

**Levels**

:cry: :cry: :cry:

**Misc**

**Heavy552 AWG** · 09-18-2006, 02:51 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Originally posted by jilted

Well, without a sound, it would often strike and the only way you would know you died was from the message. Now its a little more obvious.

I dont see it noted in the changelog, but we have fixed the issue of people getting in your arty and moving it while its being fired.

OUTSTANDING!

Does this mean you need to "Lock the vehicle?" just prior to opening fire on the enemy? Or is it a total removal of the driver's seat? If not, then how does it work?

One other thing, I did not address Traverse. It is simple to orient the gun to the right or left until flagbay is lined up and then the cannon is raised to about a proper elevation before the first round is fired to determine error that needs to be corrected for the second round.

If the gunner gets to enter range data that will remove one step from the problem, especially for hearing impaired gunners like me who need to listen off the satellite view for the very faint audio cues that tell me where the shell is coming in.

**Mekstizzle** · 09-18-2006, 10:11 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I think the commo rose needs to be changed. The "Get in" should be back where it was originally and the "Artillery ready, requesting a target" should be underneath "Follow me"

Also, what do you mean by the missile bouncing bug isn't present with the Tornado or Eurofighter? Does that mean the missiles from those planes will always hit the SU-25 and MiG or does that mean that you've fixed it so missiles don't bounce off the Tornado/Eurofighter?

**RocketPunch** · 09-18-2006, 11:41 AM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Good call on preventing the Commander from using the arti. Now people will actually have to spot for arti vs using it as a long range spwan camp weapon.

**Heavy552 AWG** · 09-18-2006, 12:10 PM

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Originally posted by RocketPunch

Good call on preventing the Commander from using the arti. Now people will actually have to spot for arti vs using it as a long range spwan camp weapon.

It is not a long range spawn camp weapon. Yes you can sit with a elevation chart X yards from any base and pound it including the enemy default into oblivion. See if the Admin of your server allows you to do it or kick.

The best role of the artillery is active engagement of enemy targets in a OFFENSIVE mode, usually enemy arty, armor and large groups that are attacking a base your team holds.

For that to work, you need very effective spotting with the ability for the gunner to prosecute the target with some hope of actually killing the enemy at any range up to about 800 yards.

There are plenty of people who will dash over to the enemy camp and sit blasting the place anyways.

One of my problems is the spotting system that does not allow the gunner to engage enemy targets outside of bases effectively and teammates WILL NOT SPOT anything of value. For example you have three tanks sitting outside a friendly base whoring points. The spotted target you might actually recieve is a sniper 500 yards off to one side and is really not a part of the engagement.

Part of the blame must lie with the cumbersome and ineffective spotting and aiming that was presented to the gunner.

The people responded by becoming commander and learning how to use the arty effectively. Apparently some people cannot stand to actually see effective artillery killing from a few miles away and desire to nerf it.

Lo and Behold the Developers did not intend the artillery to be used effectively by a commander. What a beautiful mistake that teaches us all who are gamers that there are ways to effectively employ a major weapons system, just not the way the instruction book tells you to. ***Tosses the instruction manual in the trash.

One time I took a few minutes to drive within range of the enemy airport. A few shells later nothing moved on that airport. Everything was destroyed and stayed destroyed. The noobs on the other team kept driving armor down the road past my camping artillery unaware of the destruction on thier airfield while the chat filled up with accusations of hack, cheat and camper etc...

If this is not done right, it will become the spawn camping weapon and a direct fire anti tank gun doing enemy tanks at 20 yards in a town somewhere.

I see the artillery as the number one on the field of battle. When that big boy shows up, the enemy must find and kill it ASAP.

But if this new update goes thru and it is not updated properly no one see the arty as the number one and finally realize thier dream to remove the hated artillery from the BF2 game and it's mods forever.

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Proposed Changelog for POE2

Proposed Changelog for POE2

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