Proposed Changelog for POE2

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I am arguing that the artillery unit in question should be provided local targeting and ranging tools as NOT to need a commander or any spotting if necessary.

What do you think that people will do alot of spotting as time wears on? No. they do alot of spotting in tatical situations in battle that helps thier teammates grab a AT kit and respond to the problem.

The artillery as it stands without the commander CANNOT effectively engage this spotted target NO MATTER HOW IT IS SPOTTED without the commander in the 1.0.0.0 version.

Let's talk turkey.

1- Removing the commander from artillery greatly nerfs it.
2- Killing the driver position with the gunner working is a positive.
3- The Orginal POE spotting system with Binoculars and Radio DOES NOT WORK.
4- The artiollery gunner's follow the shell animation DOES NOT WORK.
5- Artillery icons are in the middle of the map useless.
6- There is no provision to enter a bearing and range into the artillery unit to assure first shot to arrive within 25 yards of a spotted target.
7- Bored gunners drive directly into fights against enemy tanks to get some kills and show for at least the 30 minutes wasted sitting around with thumb up arse waiting for someone to spot a useful target.
8- The truth is.... No one player should be too effective with a single weapon anywhere in a game. Fess up. You rather have 6 johns blowing artillery all over the map like a hormone driven teen and make only a few kills adding to the overall atmosphere of the battle.... but god help the player if he or she managed a 100-0 kill ratio and winning the battle for his or her team.

The gunner must use a printed out chart with rough elevation and guess at the range. Friendles will be tk'ed. Enemies will simply move 50-100 yards away from the artillery impact area and not worry about it.

The gunner will sit and spam for 30 minutes netting 2 or 3 kills. I have done this without satellites, commander or spots. This was against an enemy default base 500 yards away. No one spawned at default when armor and goodies were availible one base away.

In short... the proposed change log DOES NOT HELP the artillery, everything I see threatens to pernamently nerf and wussify the artillery and remove it's effecitvely from the goddamn mod.

I see some of the POE team using sarcasm and other poor treatment in response to my posting.

Is this what being professional and dealing with customers in a non-sarcastic situation is all about with POE? I think that there is still a ways to go for some of the POE team the way postings are going with this thread.

If that is how the POE team feels about the constructive arguements and the artillery in general they can go ahead and &^%^$ it up, I wont be a part of the new version of POE with the trashed artillery.

However...

DCON is coming out soon. They may gain a better understanding of the artillery system and make it actually work like they did in DC mod long ago. That might give some of us the artillery experience that we hope to see in a modern day war game.

Bottom line, it's your mod. Do what you will with it. Despite the disprespect and poor treatment towards the artillery and myself I think that POE has done many good things that EA and DICE are not capable of in the retail version of BF2.

That alone is has to be the one thing that is a shining, glittering moment in the sun in a bloated, nerfted and casterated world of online gaming.

[jilted]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

In addition - you should take out the radio. Just leave the binocs. Why have 2 steps for something that every BF42 vet is used to just one?

Its the way we have implemented arty through python. Python only 'notices' when you change weapons, not when you actually fire them. So we had to make it when you switched to binocs OR when you switched to someting else. If it were just when you switched to binocs, the process would seem 'flawed'

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Its the way we have implemented arty through python. Python only 'notices' when you change weapons, not when you actually fire them. So we had to make it when you switched to binocs OR when you switched to someting else. If it were just when you switched to binocs, the process would seem 'flawed'

so you're telling me that you can't have it any other way?

What about having the fire button binded to fire AND change weapons, and fire again (in that order).

You may have to hold it down a bit for the process to finish - but is this possible?

3- The Orginal POE spotting system with Binoculars and Radio DOES NOT WORK.
4- The artiollery gunner's follow the shell animation DOES NOT WORK.
5- Artillery icons are in the middle of the map useless.
6- There is no provision to enter a bearing and range into the artillery unit to assure first shot to arrive within 25 yards of a spotted target.

works fine for me - i guess you just need more practice. And of course there is no provision to enter a bearinig and range. Why don't we just give you laser weapons where you type in a grid coordinated and it zaps the target.

Practice makes perfect.

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

so you're telling me that you can't have it any other way?

What about having the fire button binded to fire AND change weapons, and fire again (in that order).

You may have to hold it down a bit for the process to finish - but is this possible?



works fine for me - i guess you just need more practice. And of course there is no provision to enter a bearinig and range. Why don't we just give you laser weapons where you type in a grid coordinated and it zaps the target.

Practice makes perfect.

I can zap any target just fine using the v1.0.0 without lasers and fancy stuff.

Wait until they release the next version and we will see if anyone will still want to use arty.

I lay those out as problem areas that need to be addressed. Not all people are going to be as good as I am with the artillery when they get the next version of the POE they are going to be totally clueless and resort to tanking or spamming to get kills.

I have already made various items such as laser designation, smoke, illumination and other things that will help make artillery a bit more useful.

Dont you worry about me. I am stubborn and will find a way to make the arty effective without any help from teammates in the next version of POE. Then I will release that information here and see it wiped out in the next version after that until there are no more wonderful mistakes made that actually makes the arty useful.

/SARCASM

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Dont you worry about me. I am stubborn and will find a way to make the arty effective without any help from teammates in the next version of POE. Then I will release that information here and see it wiped out in the next version after that until there are no more wonderful mistakes made that actually makes the arty useful.

/SARCASM

you're kinda pecimistic about this aren't you?

The arty works fine without being commander - you just need a spotter.

And i'm sure you'll be fine without spotters - just start up a single player and start learning the cloud exploits.

Why use things the way they were meant to be used (even if it is just as effective - and trust me - it is) when you can just get around normal methods.

all this talk about realistic artillery and yet you want to use a satalite view to check for adjusting fire?

now i don't think you're stupid or anything - and i'm not flaming - it's just that i TOTALLY disagree with you on this one. As for the laser designator - if it was possible I could see the argument, but until DICE allows it - it will never be.

Play on a server with me and you'll never worry about needing a spotter.

One thing though - is I think that the "i need a target" voice command should have a special beep before and after it for us english-only speakers. Sometimes I ignore the chat while i'm in the heat of things.

[jilted]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Hopefully they will go to the manual and learn how to use it as we designed it

http://www.pointofexistence.com/fpn/html/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=10

not really sure troybob if what you mentioned would work or not, we tried many different things while we were developing this system, this one worked best (the binocs n radio)

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Hopefully they will go to the manual and learn how to use it as we designed it

http://www.pointofexistence.com/fpn/html/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=10

not really sure troybob if what you mentioned would work or not, we tried many different things while we were developing this system, this one worked best (the binocs n radio)

well good luck. oh and if you need a tester with some creative ideas (or just creative ideas) - i'm your man. I tested a small mod for bf1942 as well :)

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

Well. Try to implement some kind of ranging device for the artillery at the very minimum. To be able to right click and command a small dot icon to travel to any point on the map up to about 760 yards (Prevents spamming of both defaults on very large maps)

Then hit the middle mouse wheel to "Set" the icon down on that spot which also sets the gun elevation and use the left mouse to open fire. The shells should arrive at that spot with a error of Plus or minus 25 yards. Eventually a few shells will create enough damage to a target if one is in that area.

The artillery turret system should be slaved to this dot icon and elevate and traverse as necessary to get the shell (If fired) to that spot.

That is how Joint Operations does thier mortor.

Try to get around the two step spotting system and make it availible to the artillery via either the Q Comm Rose or the Binoculars. That way a tanker does not have to stop, get out of his tank (To be stolen by a teammate) and die while spotting the enemy.

I support Troybob's idea of a specil sound cue that grabs the attention of the artillery gunner during the heat of battle. It must be below 3500 hertz in pitch and be at least 70 Db in volume so that it can be heard over battle. I think the US military uses a 1000 hertz tone in a two pitch note that really grabs your attention prior to a voice or message.

Yes I dont feel very good about the prospect of a perfect artillery system but the Commander traditonally always has control of the artillery. We know that the provided spot information presented to the gunner via the satellite after a target is spotted is worthless. The view of the shell traveling to whereever it is going is worthless. Gunner needs at least a zoomed in commander's satellite view for 60 seconds minimum. That is how long he or she needs to get firepower onto the target.

Some skilled artillery gunners only need 1 round to find and correct to destroy the target in the second or third round. That is way less than 60 seconds.

I still press for local control using the dot method borrowed from Novalogic's JO as a way to provide a gunner a method of engaging a target that is NOT in a base, flagbay or known town with the ranges indicated. That way the gunner can have some hope of at least breaking up the advancing enemy horde in the open field 200 yards from the town being attacked.

[Rambo]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

blah blah blah the arty is good just dont let comander hog it and noobs try to drive it while ur positioned:p

thats my 2 cents

can some maps get 2 atry`s? each side like a front line map eg 2 main flags no caps :p

[Sanman62]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

The new patch will make the arty useless. Blah blah blah, I know we just need spotters, well who the hell actually spots! No one.

I've sat entire rounds (30 mins or so) in an arty spamming "Arty ready" and never got one spot, I've done this countless times. Why would anyone waste time using arty the way it should be "as a ranged non line of site weapon".

Not everyone plays with clans or in tournements and has awsome team mates, the majoirty of us just play pub servers. I agree that the commander "god" mode isn't correct either but you can't just take that away and not to anything else to help ranging the arty.

So, you guys all played / tested the arty with some awsome team work and in a server, well again what about the large pub servers were 90% of people will join squads and play as a squad when it comes to infantry and tanks but no one spots. This is the reality!

I love the arty and I will be very sad to see it turn into another weak battle tank becuase that's all it will be good for after the patch.

[-=wKa=-Sauron]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

The new patch will make the arty useless. Blah blah blah, I know we just need spotters, well who the hell actually spots! No one.

I've sat entire rounds (30 mins or so) in an arty spamming "Arty ready" and never got one spot, I've done this countless times. Why would anyone waste time using arty the way it should be "as a ranged non line of site weapon".

Not everyone plays with clans or in tournements and has awsome team mates, the majoirty of us just play pub servers. I agree that the commander "god" mode isn't correct either but you can't just take that away and not to anything else to help ranging the arty.

So, you guys all played / tested the arty with some awsome team work and in a server, well again what about the large pub servers were 90% of people will join squads and play as a squad when it comes to infantry and tanks but no one spots. This is the reality!

I love the arty and I will be very sad to see it turn into another weak battle tank becuase that's all it will be good for after the patch.

Try practicing the arty to perfection and it won't be useless. The one shot kills make those things beasts. You don't need spots to be useful.

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

its simple and it happened in DC

people will spot more as the mod grows. trust me.

if they added a special beep for the arty message - it would happen more often.

THE PROBLEM? Most speak english and we don't hear "BRAVO BATTERY!!! GUNS UP!!!"

We hear "isghta glaven with the maven shaven flaven!"

And if you're a lone sniper with the ability and time to spot, you're not looking at the chat text.

[donpost]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

its simple and it happened in DC

people will spot more as the mod grows. trust me.

if they added a special beep for the arty message - it would happen more often.

THE PROBLEM? Most speak english and we don't hear "BRAVO BATTERY!!! GUNS UP!!!"

We hear "isghta glaven with the maven shaven flaven!"

And if you're a lone sniper with the ability and time to spot, you're not looking at the chat text.

Ah, someone from the pro-change side who is willing to put forward an actual argument. I really hope you're right about more people spotting in future. I only had about 10 hours of total playtime on DC so I don't know how the well the arty worked in that game. Were there always plenty of spots available, and if so, what was different about DC that made people spot more?

[Heavy552 AWG]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

I just finsihed a few rounds of DC and 1942.

The number of spots are about 3 in a hour's time.

That is why the artillery needs a locally controlled ranging and traverse so the gunner can engage targets that are known to exist.

The number of spots I recieved in pub servers were about the same in POE.

I see no basis for increasing numbers of spots in POE.

In fact, I recieved a very large number of chats such as:

"Did this spot work gunner?"

"How does this work?"

"You mean you gotta click the bino then switch to radio?? B*&^%$!!!"

Rest of team "STFU STOP SPAMMING!"

Enemy takes base and rolls on to the next base down the line while artillery sits ineffective and unemployed.

[troybob]

Re: Proposed Changelog for POE2

That is why the artillery needs a locally controlled ranging and traverse so the gunner can engage targets that are known to exist.

I think that's a REALLY bad idea.

Scenario:

Gunner gets into arty. Looks at his sheet of paper for range and vector of the enemy armor base exit. Becomes commander. Starts firing. Drops supplies on himself. Continues firing so that NOTHING can leave the enemy base. Other team leaves and gunner gets victory while the teams are 2:1.

Newcomers arrive only to see an arty barrage hitting the exit of their base. They begin looking for spotters but find none. Someone finds out that all you have to do is remember the coordinates and dial them in. They think it's an idiotic (but perhaps realistic) way to do arty in a video game and complain to the developers. Rinse and repeat and that feature goes away.