Why is attacking an uncap bad?

[IVfluids]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

....
1. Players have an opportunity to spawn else where,
2. Attacking an uncappable main while they still have flags up is a suicide mission and you should never live longer than 30 seconds going into an uncap.
3. The more attacking an uncap when other flags are still up, the fewer there are taking and defending the cappable flags, the ones that matter.

I think you answered all your own questions with your post. It all comes down to wabs (whiny @ss b*tches) in this game.

[Canuck]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

Rules like the no capping the uncapps came about through that evolution, its fine to do that in a TWL match but when we're trying to get our Ranked Server going, people tend to leave and not come back when faced with that kind of nonsense.

Actually like I said, it started in October 2002 with the Wolf servers and just carried to BFV and BF2.

[disfigured]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

I'll chime in again.

Assuming everyone who supports no UCB rules are mustache twisting evil doers is a poor argument. You have no idea the type of players "we" are , or how we play the game.

Where do most of the "beefs" about this administered rule emanate from?


From servers that supposedly have found a "cure" for the problem. The worst thing of it is, the majority of beefs are not from people who have the rules violated by obvious maleficence attempting to disrupt people's game play. The majority of complaints come from people attempting to comply to the rules, and having those rules inforced wrongly or with apparent bias.

That fact alone, should tell people this strategy for better game play is flawed.

The problem with the argument that says pub servers don't have enough teamwork to play without UCB rules is, the solution itself!!

How does relieving them of the responsibility of defending UCB's promote teamwork? Wouldn't it just make it worse? Community wide is this the type of players we want. Everyone who promotes UCB rules will always state they would love to have better team mates. So how does relieving them of that very resposibility cause them to become those very players you'd like to play with? The answer is it doesn't. It only breeds more players that don't play well as teammates.

I wouldn't doubt a majority of the coddled players who gravitate to heavily ruled servers wouldn't be bad players if the option was never offered them in the first place. Rules and their inforcement shape the very players who play in those servers.

Also,

could some who flys and flys well please explain to me why continually attacking a capturable base while flying and not bailing out and attempting to capture it, is any diffrent.......

then doing the same at a UCB?

The argument for pilots and others when desimating a capturable is , "use the AA", "work as a team", or air power is the "food chain". How come the same doesn't apply to bases that are obviously set up for defense, but just happen to be UCBs?

Granted poorly set up with lame AA. But players in capturable bases have less tools and a tighter spawn radius then UCBs. Yet because there's the ability to capture it, all the "sportsmanship", and "fairplay" suddenly doesn't apply? Seems worse then a double standard to me. Better defenses, a larger spawn radius, and somtimes multiple spawn points means hands off?

And when was the last time someone saw a jet pilot soften a target and then bail out to capture it? Isn't that essentially the same as a tank in a UCB? Killing and destroying with out being able to capture the spawn?

Do you really think it's fair or not hypocritical if I get a tank into the uncap that I shouldn't be able to take out your jets that will only eventually do the same to the equipment and personel at cappable spawns? Why isn't a tank on the ground before your planes can fly not "the top of the food chain" at that particular moment? When was the last time a pilot was "fair" enough to let an mobile AA unit roll out and get a good spot before he destroyed it?

It seems pilots have no problems "softening the target" over and over again for their ground troops, but if the same is done to their assest at an ucappable , oh my god your Hitler and an unsportmanslike Nazi at that. Are all pilots this way? I have no idea, all I know is a die alot from a nearly indefensible postion and situation. The only difference is I supposedly can't make an argument to it's unfairness, because it's a capturable base? Even though it has less defenses then those who claim when it's done at a UCB it's unfair. Go figure that one out.

The "play where you like" compromise is failing on all fronts. It fails to promote teamwork. It fails to create a community skilled enough to play the game at it's highest and most competitive levels and it alleviates the responsibility of the manufacturer to improve their product.

I still say "when in rome, do as the romans do" out of respect for those paying the bill and out of common courtesy. But when Rome is burning because of it, don't expect me not to point that out, and argue against a flawed gaming philosphy.

[colony]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

My personal experience. Be as good as a jet pilot as you want. Flags and the lack of flags available to the enemy are a faster way to victory than your killing run. You take all flags, and all that is left is the uncap. I dont mind "ending" the game then. Rounds are short, frack it, suck the loss up. But theres no need to keep the enemy air force grounded for the whole round, especially if youre a kick-*** pilot who can take them head-on in a fair fight.

Bottomline, flags > kills. One-two jet pilots can not win the game, even if they kill like crazy.

Its easy to say that baseraping on a map like gulf or katar is gay, because most of the time, it is. But on maps like Wake Island where 1 J10 can easily devastate the USMC team, its almost needed.

When I shoot down a J10, ya damn skippy I'm gonna try to keep it down for the rest of the round or until my team caps the airfield. That is the difference between my team being massively raped or a victory on that map.

Personally I like to play on the whole map, not just 80% of it

[Canuck]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

But players in capturable bases have less tools and a tighter spawn radius then UCBs. Yet because there's the ability to capture it, all the "sportsmanship", and "fairplay" suddenly doesn't apply? Seems worse then a double standard to me. Better defenses, a larger spawn radius, and somtimes multiple spawn points means hands off?

I actually read all that :),
and yes it is worse than a double standard, which is why I never understood the rule back in Oct of 2002 and I still don't understand it today. I just don't see anything fair about it at all.

Bottomline, flags > kills. One-two jet pilots can not win the game, even if they kill like crazy.

I agree in pubs they don't, but in 12v12 competition the air is the deciding factor, especially on a map like Oman.

[IDC-Shorly]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

UCB attacks is just lame and stupid. Shows the real personality of those who does. It's just about statpadding kdr, cause thats all people care about public.

As for jets, the rapers are the easiest kills.

[-FaKe|Arson]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

I think that a big reason for this rule being popular is to keep people from raping people that are trying to get into choppers or jets.
It's a double edged sword on Sharqi:
It's wrong for USMC to camp MEC's help spawn area, but it's perfectly fine for MEC to camp out USMC's helo spawn pad on the TV station? Talk about double standards. That's one reason why I think the rule is absurd.
A rule about excessive camping is fine, and would satisfy my point, but not being able to attack an uncap when the enemy is doing something equally as lame is just ridiculous.

[disfigured]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

I actually read all that :),
and yes it is worse than a double standard, which is why I never understood the rule back in Oct of 2002 and I still don't understand it today. I just don't see anything fair about it at all.

I read this entire thread before I posted. I get long winded because I can type fast.

In some ways I understand the moral concept behind the philosphy, I just think it's misplaced and causes more harm then good, and creates more perception of unfairness then it dissuades.

It's also a flawed argument and I'll admit I love to debate. I could poke holes in it all day long. Easy, like the kills I get when raping UCB's. JK JK.

[Technikal]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

This is WAR! Anything is fair game as long as no civilians are killed.

I'm with this guy!!! Only rules are no cheating, like hacks, etc...but screw the n00b rules of no attacking uncaps or no baseraping!!!

[PoRn_DarkAngel]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

What I don't understand (even after 4 years of BF) why do servers have rules that forbid you from attacking an uncappable main, when
1. Players have an opportunity to spawn else where,
2. Attacking an uncappable main while they still have flags up is a suicide mission and you should never live longer than 30 seconds going into an uncap.
3. The more attacking an uncap when other flags are still up, the fewer there are taking and defending the cappable flags, the ones that matter.

And on the flip side, why is it OK to attack an uncap with an entire team once all the flags are taken and they have no other place to spawn, and due to overwhelming numbers they no cannot defend themselves before being killed as they spawn = spawnkilling!!!.

This rule started on the Wolf servers in BF1942 back in Oct. 2002, I thought it was stupid than and still think it's stupid now.

To me it would make more sense if the rule stated 'No attacking uncap if all flags have been taken', so then at least they have a fair chance of breaking out, and there will be no spawnkilling (which in my opinion is the worse thing to do in fps pubs).

I just don't get.

I agree 200%

[hashhockey69]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

in short, everyone in a server needs to have a good time (not just you) and given opportunity to move out of their base

EXACLY! I hate spawn killers, specialy those who kill you when you spawn at an uncap.




HH

[Canuck]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

UCB attacks is just lame and stupid. Shows the real personality of those who does. It's just about statpadding kdr, cause thats all people care about public.

I agree it is all about stat padding and KDR once you have all the flags and the other team has nowhere else to spawn but at the uncap.
I'm beginning to believe that all the advocates of this rule are closet spawn-killers, waiting for the green light that says, GO NOW, SPAWN-KILL AT WILLl!! :ar15: "statpad, statpad, I get to statpad, and it's ok," :nerr: :nerr:

But when only one or two go into an uncap before all the flags are taken, well than it's just suicide, you can hardly call that statpadding.

I think the problem is that some players are so brainwashed with this rule that when they see a tank rolling into the uncap they start complaining, instead of two of them spawning back as AT and simply killing the tank.

Teamwork. Some of you should try it, it really does work

[PoRn_DarkAngel]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

EXACLY! I hate spawn killers, specialy those who kill you when you spawn at an uncap.

No one likes to be spawn-killed. I've yet to see anyone who actually does.

I believe you hate it because it ruins your stats more than anything else. This is why you and your friend hate spawn-killing. Like wize why some people abuse it.

ps...stats are gay

[zuiquan1]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

I think the problem is that some players are so brainwashed with this rule that when they see a tank rolling into the uncap they start complaining, instead of two of them spawning back as AT and simply killing the tank.

but what if the tank has its cannon trained on one of the ONLY spawn locations so your not even alive for a split second before he shoots you again, its hard to Fight Back when your not even alive long enough to run

[disfigured]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

UCB attacks is just lame and stupid. Shows the real personality of those who does. It's just about statpadding kdr, cause thats all people care about public.

As for jets, the rapers are the easiest kills.

Stupid yes from a strategic standpoint it is sometimes.

Stat padder? So allowing unfettered access to the most powerful vehicles in the largest volumes, isn't a form of stat padding? I dont see where you can claim one is and the other is not.

A lot of peoples definitions of "fair", "statpadding", and "attacking" vary so much it's not possible to make an argument that can stand up to the least inquistitive or logical retort. That's my point, the same goes during game play and this creates a rift and bad feelings.

EXACLY! I hate spawn killers, specialy those who kill you when you spawn at an uncap.

Again how come you feel differently because of the ability to capture the spawn has changed?

I hate planes I can't shoot down that contiually bomb my vehicles. I hate dolphin divers, I hate macro breakdancers. But I don't attempt to limit their ability to do so, or lobby for an adminsrtated rule.

Using the fact that a spawn has a little red circle around it and at certain times during game play the fact that it cannot be captured is not the best strategic move for a team when attacking it, is not grounds to restrict actions there, that go on in every other location of the map.

The logic doesn't wash no matter how many ways people attempt to state it.

At this point I'm arguing for arguments sake, because it's just so easy to shoot everything down. Like the AA pilots claim isn't being used correctly

"Just use the AA", how come pilots dont' take thier own advice when it's a UCB and the things are everywhere? Maybe because they're not right next to where the plane spawns? But I'm making assumptions about players actions and I shouldn't.

but what if the tank has its cannon trained on one of the ONLY spawn locations so your not even alive for a split second before he shoots you again, its hard to Fight Back when your not even alive long enough to run

One tank and you at a UCB. Are you going to be able to take him out the first time you spawn. Of course not. Are you going to be able to take him out if he's an engineer in 3 spawns. Possibly not. I could up to 5, 6, or even 10 spawns to get the right amount of rounds in him placed perfectly.

Sadly you'll never know the elation once you do it. Because you believe you can't.

Give it a rest everyone, and have some fun.

Play where you like, and play by the rules of that server.