Why is attacking an uncap bad?

[Canuck]

What I don't understand (even after 4 years of BF) why do servers have rules that forbid you from attacking an uncappable main, when
1. Players have an opportunity to spawn else where,
2. Attacking an uncappable main while they still have flags up is a suicide mission and you should never live longer than 30 seconds going into an uncap.
3. The more attacking an uncap when other flags are still up, the fewer there are taking and defending the cappable flags, the ones that matter.

And on the flip side, why is it OK to attack an uncap with an entire team once all the flags are taken and they have no other place to spawn, and due to overwhelming numbers they no cannot defend themselves before being killed as they spawn = spawnkilling!!!.

This rule started on the Wolf servers in BF1942 back in Oct. 2002, I thought it was stupid than and still think it's stupid now.

To me it would make more sense if the rule stated 'No attacking uncap if all flags have been taken', so then at least they have a fair chance of breaking out, and there will be no spawnkilling (which in my opinion is the worse thing to do in fps pubs).

I just don't get.

[imported_Nefarious]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

A thread similar to this one was posted about an hour ago.

[lamah]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

in short, everyone in a server needs to have a good time (not just you) and given opportunity to move out of their base

[Canuck]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

A thread similar to this one was posted about an hour ago.

Ok, 4 years I've never seen anybody ask this Where is this other post I can't find it, I checked back 6 hours

in short, everyone in a server needs to have a good time (not just you) and given opportunity to move out of their base

So if you're in a cappable main your not entitled to a good time, nor the opportunity to move out?? That makes no sense either.

I like to play fair and when pubbing I try to give everybody a chance. If you come into my uncap alone or with a friend you might kill me once, but never twice.

I just don't think it's fair nor is it good sportmanship to attack an uncap when they have no other place to spawn. Like I said I hate spawnkilling. Whenever my team has all the flags, I'll move as far back from the uncap as I can so they have a chance to break out. If I'm flying I'll stop bombing and move away, or just fly circles to see what's gong on.

When I'm on the recieving end, with no flags left and entire other team is spawn killing us, I just stop spawning in and wait for the round to end.

I agree, everybody needs to have a good time. But these server rules really don't do that, in fact I find it has the opposite effect.

[kjr.]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

Well, usually because people think that it is bad because you are going after the kills and not the flag. The whole way to win the game is to limit the amount of flags your enemy can spawn at, so attacking an uncap while a cappable flag belongs to your enemy doesn't make sense.

And I would rather have the whole team attack me than just one guy because where else are they going to attack us from? If all the cappables are capped by my enemy I will gladly let them attack me because there is no where for them to kill us at.

You said attacking an uncap is a suicide mission. So why do it?

[Fireflash]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

There is nothing wrong doing it as it was meant by the developers and they will never do anything about it, not in the past BF series, not in current BF and 2142 will stay the same.

Servers where spawn/uncap raping is allowed are usually where those above average players that know how to deal with every situation in BF2 hang around.

That is why a player adapted to servers with custom rules like no attack uncap or no spawn rape always perform like a noob and whine like a noob when he get in a "pure" server with no custom rules that limits the gameplay meant by the developers.

[Canuck]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

You said attacking an uncap is a suicide mission. So why do it?

Because you as the attacker cannot cap that flag, so you're just going to die and die for what?

Whereas the defenders simply continue to respawn with the advantage of knowing where you are, and what vehicle, if any, you may be in. So you're at a huge disadvantage and you should be dead within 30 seconds.

Destroying commander assests in an uncap is as legit as destroying commander assets in a cappable main.
Bombing armour and air assets in an uncap is as valid as bombing armour and air assets in a cappable main.
Why wouldn't it be?
Only difference is, the side with the uncap has the bigger advantage, so why are they given the additional protection?

I rarely (actually I don't think I ever have) attack an uncappable as infantry or armour, because I think it is pointless.

Some people say that if you lose all your flags and left with just the uncap then you deserve it, I suppose that is somewhat true as the side with the uncap should never lose, but still that should not be the reason to not only condone spawn killing but also encourage it through the rules.

Like I said, it would be much more fair and enjoyable if the rule stated, that when all the flags are taken you're not permitted to attack the uncap as that constitutes spawn killing, and spawn killing is wrong and unfair.

[kjr.]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

Actually, the side that has the uncap is not always at the advantage. In Karkand, the USMC ticket count keeps draining unless they cap a flag inside the city. If the MEC does their job, they will prevent the USMC from doing just that. Also, the uncappable flag is very far back so the armor takes a while to get to the frontline. I cannot think of a map where the uncappables are unbalanced.

[zuiquan1]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

In general, I dont have a problem with attacking an uncap, its when people camp outside a spawn point with there guns poised at the very position you spawn(there are only 1 or 2 spawn areas per flag so most people have memorized were they are) so once you spawn they fire, your alive maybe a split second before your killed again, and it happens over and over and over again.

Tha attacker doesnt even give his oppenent time to fight back, its just spawn-die....spawn-die....spawn-die, the entire round

It sucks when you are pushed back to only one flag and thats the ONLY flag you can spawn at, yet you know that the minute you spawn that statwh0re will be there to kill you. Theres nothing you can do, its extremely aggrivating.

An easy way to fix this would be for Dice to add more spawn locations per flag, hell I can do that in my sleep, its the first thing you learn when using the BFeditor, it only takes a few seconds and would help enormously(sp) to prevent spawnraping

[Roger Smith]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

not only is it not bad, its part of the game.

[LahLahSr]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

Everytime you kill someone in BF2 you are assisting your team in winning the round. Any method that increase the number of kills you achieve, is a benefit for your team - whatever your motivations behind any specific method may be.

Since BF2 has only conquest, it is all about the kill - it's a very simpleminded approach to wargaming (perhaps also why it's so popular) that is significantly behind the level of sophistication that has gone into the game otherwise.

You'd be doing your team a disservice by letting anyone ever get "a chance" anywhere. Bombing infantry from up high, calling in artillery, shooting people in the back, using C4 - none of these tactics give the victim "a chance".

It's not the attackers fault that BF2 is designed, tested and released by inferior staff and decision-makers.

That being said, Zuiquian is of course completely correct (underscoring my latest point) that a lot of this rather repetitive and ridiculous gameplay that comes from heavy spawncamping, could be avoided so easily and be corrected with little effort. If the developers of BF2 had actually been smart, they would have devised something more elegant. Without even breaking a sweat anyone here could imagine solutions that could work: zones where the enemy cannot enter, protected bases that enemy armor cannot get into, automated defenses around the core spawnpoints, a few seconds of invulnerability after spawn, spawning at 2nd floor level instead of ground-level.

We all suffer one way or another from mediocre design-decisions in BF2 - this is but one of them.

Cheers :-)

[SteelWolf]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

This is WAR! Anything is fair game as long as no civilians are killed.

[kjr.]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

Everytime you kill someone in BF2 you are assisting your team in winning the round. Any method that increase the number of kills you achieve, is a benefit for your team - whatever your motivations behind any specific method may be.

Since BF2 has only conquest, it is all about the kill - it's a very simpleminded approach to wargaming (perhaps also why it's so popular) that is significantly behind the level of sophistication that has gone into the game otherwise.

You'd be doing your team a disservice by letting anyone ever get "a chance" anywhere. Bombing infantry from up high, calling in artillery, shooting people in the back, using C4 - none of these tactics give the victim "a chance".

It's not the attackers fault that BF2 is designed, tested and released by inferior staff and decision-makers.

That being said, Zuiquian is of course completely correct (underscoring my latest point) that a lot of this rather repetitive and ridiculous gameplay that comes from heavy spawncamping, could be avoided so easily and be corrected with little effort. If the developers of BF2 had actually been smart, they would have devised something more elegant. Without even breaking a sweat anyone here could imagine solutions that could work: zones where the enemy cannot enter, protected bases that enemy armor cannot get into, automated defenses around the core spawnpoints, a few seconds of invulnerability after spawn, spawning at 2nd floor level instead of ground-level.

We all suffer one way or another from mediocre design-decisions in BF2 - this is but one of them.

Cheers :-)

But capping all the cappable flags is more effective than killing one person. Depending on the map, controlling all the cappable flags causes a ticket drain as opposed to just one ticket going down for one kill.

[sassback]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

if uve taken all of the flags feel free to attack. otherwise, STAY AWAY! thats my philosophy anyhoo.

[WarGimp]

Re: Why is attacking an uncap bad?

This is WAR! Anything is fair game as long as no civilians are killed.

That's so naive, it's cute.

Umm... have you been oblivious to all of this?

Anyway, it's not war.
It's a game.