F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

So question is, do those 5 - 6 % "adjustments" will be noticeable? Maybe...

Theres a line between "noticable" and "too much". Right now, DICE has crossed that line many times. 5-6% decrease in F35Bs turn radius is something that increases F35Bs ATA ability, yet does not break MiG. So its not a "change in situation" as I would say, but rather something that softens the inbalance.

What Ive done for F35B so far is-
*Increasing afterburner speed from 10 seconds to 15
*Decreasing time it takes to complete even more, from 2/3 (afterburner roll/ non afterburner roll) to about 1.5/2.5. F35B is as agile as a wasp.
*Decreasing turn diameter, by altering certain figures by about 5-10%. I cannot be certain of how these changes affected the overall turn radius as I dont know the method of measuring the turn radius which Xennore used. (my theory is that its "maximum speed in turn/time it takes to perform the turn") I did notice a slight improvement in turn however. Only a slight.

I have yet to compare it with MiG and J10, but Im currently revising the changes and recording what exactly I did, how much and on which plane. Note that Im very inexperienced in the area. Its just me and my curiosity

Needless to say I feel confident that I cant balance the jets, maneuverability-wise. I could even create proper missile characteristics that I would like, however, I do not have a clue what to do with the hitboxes and whatnot.

[zipp0r]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Hey Guys,
So we took a long hard look at this issue in relation to what we could try to do in 1.4.

We did some tuning to the J-10. Believe me or not most tuning we did actually made that lil sucker even more lethal (some people may have seen a server named 'J-10 Test' up within the last few weeks). Which brought us to the realization that if we were to do anything drastic to the J-10 it would likley ruin the vehicle unless we spent weeks in review and retuning.

We then reviewed what would be required to adjust the F35. The work and tuning and adjustment that would be required to try and bring the F35 up was roughly equal given the dual function of the F35 engine. I also received a crash course (har har) on hit box construction which helped me realize that this also would not be a simple adjustment and would also require weeks of adjustment and trial-and-error.

Long story short - This dynamic will not be changing in 1.4.

-C

haha, its funny that you made the j10 better

if you find its too much effort to beef up the f35, then you need to look at what A2A missiles are doing, to stop them hitting the f35 so easily and also to stop the "lock, spam 6 missiles and get a kill" players. your a2a beef up was what caused the issue with the f35 in the first place, so it ruined that plane and also made dogfighting so utterly skillless. give us some cannon fighting back pls!!

[Batausu]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Yes, adjust A2A missiles, either 100% lethal or 100% dumb. I prefer to have them always hit, but this is really your choice.

[$kelet0r]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Personally I feel entitled to fall back on my original proposal - a simple solution to what is a simple issue of imbalance

Problem: The J10 has an advantage over the f35 in almost every area
Solution: Therefore give the F35 an advantage
The F35 has vestoring thrust using its VTOL.
Use the vectoring engine to give the F35 a superior airbrake.

The J10 would have superior manouverability
The F35 would have superior acceleration/deceleration
Balance (- or a more realistic approximation of it)

A simple solution. The J10 does not get nerfed. The F35 gets a real advantage. The individual jets remain uniquely different. Dogfights become more challenging.

This does not require weeks of tuning and tweaking - you change 2 values, acceleration and deceleration for the F35 so that they are useful - and you have a much happier BF2 pilot and player

[Mekstizzle]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

This is unbeleivable. Oh well...at least the bugs will be fixed. Bugs which 1.3 flared up alot. Well, this is just really silly. Sorry but....i don't know what to say.

Edit: I do, you had the time to make changes like vehicle drop/new map/prone & crouch change so why not these. I know you tried but if only this was all done instead of vehicle drop etc...AND THEN all that would be added. But BEFORE all that, the bugs could've been fixed.

I dunno....

[{TKM}MiK]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

What they cant fix it lol no supprise there, hey colin send it to dice sweeden at least they seem to know what there doing. well another dissapointing decision I dont know why we bother.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Personally I feel entitled to fall back on my original proposal - a simple solution to what is a simple issue of imbalance

Problem: The J10 has an advantage over the f35 in almost every area
Solution: Therefore give the F35 an advantage
The F35 has vestoring thrust using its VTOL.
Use the vectoring engine to give the F35 a superior airbrake.

The J10 would have superior manouverability
The F35 would have superior acceleration/deceleration
Balance (- or a more realistic approximation of it)

A simple solution. The J10 does not get nerfed. The F35 gets a real advantage. The individual jets remain uniquely different. Dogfights become more challenging.

This does not require weeks of tuning and tweaking - you change 2 values, acceleration and deceleration for the F35 so that they are useful - and you have a much happier BF2 pilot and player

While the idea may sound good in theory, its unbelievably hard to actually alter information in files to get a desired result. In order to actually change accel/deccel you have to alter engine torgue, the main engine disengaging/hover engine engagement, jet mass and so on. Information to be changed, to get one desired result is pretty rough to handle.

So far, to change maneuverabilty I just had to change the maximum degrees of flaps rotation. To change agility, I altered the speed of flap (I just use this general word, descibing ailerons, flaps, rudders and all that stuff) engagement. What makes F35B harder than others, is that it doesnt have an air brake, and it uses 4 engines. While some detailes are conventional-

like ailerons, flaps, rudder and whatnot, its changes arent that simple. You also have to tamper with engine torgue, sprint factor, and all other kinds of BS. I was quite disappointed because I, as a dummy, didnt find simple spots with values like-

acceleration factor = 86.5 (:laugh: )

Instead I was hammered with a HUGE PILE OF CODES

Its hard to explain, I hope I shed some light here.

[colony]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

What they cant fix it lol no supprise there, hey colin send it to dice sweeden at least they seem to know what there doing. well another dissapointing decision I dont know why we bother.

:laugh: yea, its crazy. They can "nerf" the blackhawk and attack choppers but they cant adjust/nerf this issue.

If you guys arent smart enough to fix a simple issue like this, no wonder we've had so many bugs and problems with patches.

This isnt a dynamic colin, its a problem. Dont be afraid to say it.


This wasnt even with baseraping the carrier, just flying around untouchable killing boats, blackhawks....anything that tried to make it to land

1. You either boost simple stats like time to lock on, afterburner time, flare recharge etc. or decrease them.

OR

2. Scrap one of the jets from the map and put in a different one.

Ex.

Take out J10s and input Migs or
Take out F35s, and input F18s. (changing this might require a different placement on carrier)

You cant fix this, you are dodo birds

[cracpot_23]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

I say instead of nerfing the J-10 make the F-35b better. I can pull of amazing scores in the the F-35b even with both J-10's up. The thing is though, everyone knows when an F-35b comes into a dogfight with a J-10 the winners is 85% of the time a J-10 (statistic based of my experience).

It just seems to make more sense to me to supe of the F-35b instead of messing with the J-10. Plain and simple in my own opinion.

[Batausu]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Do you remember the A2A missiles from 1.2?
What was wrong with them, why they changed it?
What we have now:
F35=mostly hit by missiles,
J10=mostly missed by missiles.
I don’t mind the differences in maneuverability as long as I have working missiles.
One careless J10 pilot should mean one downed J10. This is not true right now, as no matter how careless he is, most missiles are still avoiding the J10.
I'm a fan of improving things, so bring back the good missiles!
Wait, I see why they changed it back! It’s because choppers were too easy to kill with it. We have to come up with an idea to balance this jet-chopper thing if we want better A2A missiles. How about decreasing jet’s armor along with decreasing missile damage, would this do the trick? This change would also increase the apparent power of cannons in dog fighting, without giving jets an advantage against choppers.
What other opponents does a jet have, that can take advantage if jet’s armor is reduced? The answer is: other jets, of course.
The real problem is how to be sure this change is not taken to extreme again, as all the other attempts to change things?

[zipp0r]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Do you remember the A2A missiles from 1.2?
What was wrong with them, why they changed it?
What we have now:
F35=mostly hit by missiles,
J10=mostly missed by missiles.
I don’t mind the differences in maneuverability as long as I have working missiles.
One careless J10 pilot should mean one downed J10. This is not true right now, as no matter how careless he is, most missiles are still avoiding the J10.
I'm a fan of improving things, so bring back the good missiles!
Wait, I see why they changed it back! It’s because choppers were too easy to kill with it. We have to come up with an idea to balance this jet-chopper thing if we want better A2A missiles. How about decreasing jet’s armor along with decreasing missile damage, would this do the trick? This change would also increase the apparent power of cannons in dog fighting, without giving jets an advantage against choppers.
What other opponents does a jet have, that can take advantage if jet’s armor is reduced? The answer is: other jets, of course.
The real problem is how to be sure this change is not taken to extreme again, as all the other attempts to change things?

youve got a memory like a fish if you cant remember what was wrong with 1.2 missiles

[Batausu]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

youve got a memory like a fish if you cant remember what was wrong with 1.2 missiles

Now that you reminded me so kindly, I guess you are right.
Those missiles were insane!
Perhaps some little adjustment, as to explode on first object they hit should have made them right.

[astdanno]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Yes, they should address AA again (including the Essex).

AA emplacements should be feared by jets. Right now, they are seen as easy points for jet pilots.

Agreed. Destroying essex AA with guns from a plane has to be one of the easiast things to do. Sure the essex can get off about two or three missles at the plane if it sees it coming. But if it's a J-10 your chances of hitting it are extremely low. I've been able to shoot down J-10's when the pilot throttles down considerably, but when they come in at pretty much full speed forget about it.

The reply from EA DICE about no J-10 adjustment in 1.4 patch basically tells us that the people who could really fix the problem are probably caught up with BF 2142 and wont be available for a while. Just conjecture on my part. :)

I have a thought: an easy temporary fix could be to just slow down the J-10 so the small hitbox is a bit easiar to stay locked-on. How hard could it be to simply lower the max speed of the J-10 about 10 - 20% and to cut the afterburner by 20 - 30%? Does anyone think this would help or is it basically useless?

Also, I think it would help if a planes bomb radar of ground targets turned off when your out of bombs. It shuts off and your forced into missle mode. This would do three interesting things for brief periods of time during the game:

1. It would make it a bit harder to recognize enemy or friendly targets on the ground and increase their survival rate.
2. Enemy jets could detect our missle lock radar more often and know an enemy plane is nearby.
3. Would encourage pilots to return to base more often to replenish bombs.

Yes, I know many pilots have AA locations memorized and we route our flight path to destroy and make them unusable by the enemy, but it still might help the ground folk not get pounded as much.

Just some thoughts, feel free to "shoot me down". :)

- "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

[Lagadelphia]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Call me crazy but, why not just remove the AA missles from planes entirely? Bump up the ammo load on the J-10 and Mig a bit and call it good? Pre 1.2, people used guns primarily because the missles sucked but things were more balanced. That was when flying was fun and it was more of pilot skill vs pilot skill rather than what plane they were flying.

[$kelet0r]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Balanced???
It took so long to shoot down another pilot with cannons only pre 1.2 that pilots by unsaid mutual agreement never bothered dogfighting - there was no point!
And the ground troops suffered even more that they currently do - at least jets can be shot down quickly these days