F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

[zipp0r]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Please, rather 1.2 then 1.12. No more bombmode-only for the jets. The groundfighters deserves better then that.

F-35 still suffers of the 1.2-missiles from any jet or AA. Beeing a pilot means get your enemy jet down, then find bombtargets.

For all those not used to handling this, just one singel day in the JSF will improve your style of flying.

1.2 was utilmate noob mode, 10x worse than f35 is now, for every plane.
and only an idiot would want it back, which you appear to be as every post you make shows you dont know alot.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

1.2 was utilmate noob mode, 10x worse than f35 is now, for every plane.
and only an idiot would want it back, which you appear to be as every post you make shows you dont know alot.

You have to appreciate the good sides aswell, Zip. Like, at least people aimed their noses at other planes. Skill went outta da window, absolutely. However, an extreme was found. We now have two extremes, the low and the max. DICE now should work on finding a good medium... which... yeah, they arent...

[Profe]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Negative.
They were reduced in armour because they could not be shot down at all. 120mm shell? no problem. 50cal mg? It'll overheat and I will still have half armour. Stinger missile? As long as I don't hover 20ft in front of one, It'll never hit.
They reduced the rockets because nobody needed 14, they would fire 8 and reload.
They reduced the range of the TV missile because it was being exploited by players guiding it at targets well beyond visual range.

Perfectly reasonable in my mind - they are still too heavily armoured imo and I like piloting choppers. I mean it takes 2 AT hits to kill it! You know what else takes 2 AT hits? - you guessed it! An APC!

I don't mind the reduced armor, but they weren't as hard to kill as you make them out, and certainly a tank shell would usually do it.

And how is guiding a rocket beyond visual range an exploit? If a gunner can do this, then congratulations to him, he is doing his job effectively, so much so that he is destroying the enemy from out of their reach. That is not an exploit, that is being smart.

Also when people ditch rockets to reload, it's to have a full salvo ready instead of having to reload in the middle of a battle, again it is not an exploit, it's using your head.

You guys need to understand that airpower will ALWAYS dominate the battlefield because it is faster, carries heavier weapons, and doesn't have to deal with terrain. Saying aircraft overpower land forces is only true because of the nature of airpower. Trying to balance air vehicles to ground vehicles is like balancing spears and rifles.

But that's beside the point, I have no problem with one jet being stronger/more manueverable than another. Having planes with the same mechanics with just different models is dumb and boring. The fun comes from figuring out how to get the advantage.

[Kooper]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Colin Clarke (Updated Answer): I also received a crash course (har har) on hit box construction which helped me realize that this also would not be a simple adjustment and would also require weeks of adjustment and trial-and-error.

BS. Utter and absolute BS! Give me 10 mins and i'll fix it! Hell! Let ANY of the mod teams touch it and it will be done in a quarter of that time! As everyone would have seen the problem is just the big area between the tail fins on the 35. This was obviously caused by a VERY lazy modeller.

It wouldn't have taken more than a couple of extra mins to fix that. Collision meshs are the simplest part of a model to do. They are the least detail of each model and I would personally be shocked if more than an hour per model was spent on creating each collision mesh from scratch!

I can't believe they've let this issue hang around for more than 12 months now and they still won't deal with it.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

BS. Utter and absolute BS! Give me 10 mins and i'll fix it! Hell! Let ANY of the mod teams touch it and it will be done in a quarter of that time! As everyone would have seen the problem is just the big area between the tail fins on the 35. This was obviously caused by a VERY lazy modeller.

It wouldn't have taken more than a couple of extra mins to fix that. Collision meshs are the simplest part of a model to do. They are the least detail of each model and I would personally be shocked if more than an hour per model was spent on creating each collision mesh from scratch!

I can't believe they've let this issue hang around for more than 12 months now and they still won't deal with it.

Theres a theory, that the missile-uber tracking (which is the biggest issue actually) against F35B is because of the placement of the heatsource.

[Agent-K-01]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10 - How hard can this be to Fix?

Looks like I might be a little late in here (HOT TOPIC huh?)
Some of this has been said, but I'd like to add my support to various comments in this thread and add my own comments.

I've spent a lot of time in jets both in 64 Multiplayer online (mostly Wake, Dalian and Gulf) and practicing bombing and general manouvres in empty local multiplayer games. I've always preferred the F-35B, it's simply the most fun to fly. I've also spent a fair bit of time in J-10's and some in the SU's. I've recently managed (after employing a new tactic) to Gold medal in an F-35B on Wake a couple of times, but this inbalance is still my single biggest gripe with BF2 (followed closely by the chaos of securing a jet). Heres what I think:

1. In terms of overall manouverability F-35's and J-10's are in my opinion balanced! The F-35B reacts faster to control input, rolls cleanly, bombs like a dream, and the vector thrust has endless uses! On the other hand the J-10 is Fast, slower to react, a little bit jittery, is harder to roll, but has a significantly greater rate of turn. In guns only air to air combat the two seem well balanced to me. Lately I've even learnt to evaid J-10's entirely after being locked. BUT...<br>
   
2. Twilight zone Air to Air A Missiles: For no apparently good reason J-10 Missiles are rediculously more effective than an F-35. I've experienced this from both cockpits (on both sides) many, many times. The J-10 is a FIRE & FORGET situation (almost always THAT simple). Not even chaff/flares discourages a J-10 missile (only the attacking pilot). I've watched from outside my F-35 as 2 x J-10 missiles chased me up a couple of hundred feet (and around the tightest possible turn) and each plowed one ofter the other into my jet having faithfully followed my heat trail PERFECTLY. Yet when I fire an ENTIRE Payload of missiles at a fully LOCKED J-10 while jasing him straight up through a GRADUAL climb, I watch dumbfounded as all but one (and often none) missile completely misses the target. I've seen them dart of at almost right-angles (even since 1.3) as the approac the J-10. HOW THE HELL CAN THIS BE RIGHT? The US dam sure didn't award a major defence contract to a new jet with worse then average Air to Air missiles!!! Right now an F-35 pilot spends more time avoiding visual contact or missile lock from with a J-10 than he does being a useful member of the team.

In my opinion, you balance the Air to Air missiles (reduce the J-10 missile potency), and the rest will balance itself through player skill and tactic.

Side Note: Don't spose there is any chance of adding a simple but fair Queing System to Carriers and runways to prevent the morally/ethically impaired Teamkillers/Jet Stealers from ruining it for everyone?

Also want to take this chance to say thanks to DICE and EA for the most addictive game ever, and your committment to getting (what is surely a very complex game to develop) right in the end. :)

[Super-Timo]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

This problem is very anoying since planes are one of my fave things on BF2
Im a competent pilot and can evade planes 75% of the time but in an f-35 i cant no matter what i try. the only times i manage to escape is when the other pilot crashes, dice really need to do somthing about this, I do agree however that totaly fair can be dull but it should be made better thatn it is now.

[Roger Smith]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10 - How hard can this be to Fix?

In terms of overall manouverability F-35's and J-10's are in my opinion balanced!

i agree

In my opinion, you balance the Air to Air missiles (reduce the J-10 missile potency), and the rest will balance itself through player skill and tactic.

the problem isnt the aa missiles, apparently the problem is that many airframes have heat sources in the middle of the airframe rather than the back like the f35 has, and that the hitboxes on these airframes are screwed up. in the j10s case, the engine is sticking through the hitboxes. so to sum it up, fix the hitboxes/heat sources and make the aa turn rate lower and you got balanced and skilled air combat.

[Vintageologist]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10 - How hard can this be to Fix?

so to sum it up, fix the hitboxes/heat sources and make the aa turn rate lower and you got balanced and skilled air combat.

That would be a nice beginning

[WDA_OPTIMUSPRIME]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

I don't understand frist they can nerf the blackhawk cause "IT'S not FAIR!!!"

Ok then they can FIX the AA "CAUSE IT's NOT FAIR " Fine with me glad they did needed to be fixed ! I agee 100% then they can nerf the noob tube ! And nerf the c4 RIGTH! So how damn hard can it really be to fix the f-35 I got almost 200 hours in a jet ploit and love to fly but i switched to the chopper ! Cause then at least with the chop v chop it's down to the ploit's and tv guides gunner skill! The damn jet's is so unbalanced not even close no skill in the j-10 just shoot and there down.

Where is the fun in that ? Did they not take missles from the choppers as well 14 down to 8 ? How hard was that i've never seen such an unbalance in any game like the j-10 v f-35 and if they can't fix this in the patch then wtf are they doing in the patch ? Making it inf. only great for one map you want have to deal with the might j-10.

Why not just remove the 10 and 35 make it F18 V MIG 29 WOW guess that's to hard as well ! even with it's mig 29 vs f35 still one sided the f35 is a flying coffin ! I'll take the su-34 before a f35 i'm sure they really don't give a damn what we post after 12 or so pages here and many other sites they still eat up with MDAD malignant dumb azz disease= MDAD = EA :laugh:

[UnknownSoldier]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Theres a theory, that the missile-uber tracking (which is the biggest issue actually) against F35B is because of the placement of the heatsource.

That would explain why the flares don't even work half the time...

[Mr Yuck]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

well...they answered this question,

Long story short - This dynamic will not be changing in 1.4.

to be honest, I have better luck shooting the J10 down with helicopter rockets than with F35 missiles. I have learned that, when there are halfway decent J10 pilots up, the best use for the F35 is transportation to a flag.

[PoLLeTsKi[BE]]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

That would explain why the flares don't even work half the time...

yea indeed, thats very anoying, if a J10 is behind you and you throw flares, they mostly have no effect

[Hurricane.CAD]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Congratulations to DICE for failing to fix a problem that's plagued the game for 6 months now, nearing on 7.

[colony]

Re: F-35b Vs J-10... Please Fix!

Its an easy fix, just switch out the F35s with F18s and we got balance. I made a topic here about it but it never got posted