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Youre also totally forgetting that every single person in the military, behind every tank, plane, and bomb, has the ability to think. If it really came down to a revolution then how many fighting men would willingly kill another US citizen? The U.S. Military cannot be used within our borders effectively to fight our own citizens. Think about it, Robert E. Lee was offered the command of the U.S. Army before the Civil War. People have opinions even if they seem to be a tool of the government.
Also many State guards and militias are not controlled by the Federal Government. i.e. the Texas National Guard answeres to the governor of Texas and nobody else.
Even with all that aside, I would rather go down fighting than be captured and tortured by a corrupt ruler. A right to die when living could have worse consequences.
I dont like bring hitler up as he was pure evil in my eyes but if you want to go on about corrupt goverments look at what he did to germany. He made an army within army (the SS) if you didnt do as you were told you were killed and possibly even your family were used as hostages. Thats how a corrupt govermant could controll the US army by fear.
Now i want to point out again that i dont mind americans having guns its your right its a different country and you have different circumstances to the uk . Like i said twice before in certain states you have bears and crap running around in your back garden and i sure as hell would want a gun if i lived there.
All im trying to say is that the US public would have no chance of over throwing a corrupt goverment that had the US militarys backing its simply a silly arguement to try and put. Its like the indians with bows and arrows trying to go against the us army with rifles and artillary. Yeah you could cause a lot of problems but in the end your going to get anhilatted.
All power to you keep your guns its your right and i wouldnt any of my rights removed that i think i should be entitled to and have grown up with. But stay on track with legitamate arguments otherwise the other side are going to rip wholes in your arguement like i just have.
p.s. You have somthing equivilant to a hercules plane that the british army uses and you drop things like daisy cutters from it or what ever there called now. That versus whatever the us public can get its hands on is a huge difference thats why you couldnt defeat the US army the technology difference is so huge.
You also forget that your militia's can be more extreme than your military. Did you forget the 101st Airborne having to be brought in because the Alabama National Guard wouldn't let African-American students go to school?
Don't presume that just because they are seperate they wouldn't both want the same thing.
Well besides the fact that you just contradicted your example im going to respond to it.
The state Guards and militias are not controlled by the Federal Government as your example just proved. The Federal Government [I]should[I] be controlled by the states but weve pretty much drifted away from that in this era, while it seems the Feds control pretty much everything nowdays. My point is, If there was an uprising in Texas or Alabama, the national guard would rise to defend the people of the state. I can tell you that in a hypothetical war between Texas and the U.S. i wouldnt even have to think twice about which side i would sign up for. Im not sure about how other states are about that but around here we are very much still patriots of the people closest to us.
Theres nothing dramatic besides the fact that whenever any military operates in an environment with civilians, there will be collateral damage. U.S. soldiers are trained to kill enemies of the U.S. not its citizens. EVEN IF we had insensitive robot soldiers who could kill anyone, the government would still have to answer to the international community the same way the Soviets did.
And i thought that soldiers were taught to see enemy as simply that, not human, just a 'thing'. Therefore the enemy could take on any form. Are you saying that a US soldier couldnt attack a cult stronghold, similar to Waco (though obviously its not 'allowed' etc), because the people inside are US citizens? With enough propaganda, anyone can be made to appear as the enemy. Heard of the commies? How many US soldiers in the 1950's and 1960's wouldnt have wanted to kill a commie?
I dont think the Soviet Union did have to answer to the international community. It had nuclear capabilities, and to be honest, any country that does can get away with pretty much anything. The repurcussions are fairly simple, either nothing or nuclear war, and people are much more likely to take 'nothing'. The US is far too powerful a nation to buckle to any kind of international pressure (despite what Armoured Fury would have you believe!). Simply put, if a government of that nature was in power, the rest of the world would just have to put up with it.
All im trying to say is that the US public would have no chance of over throwing a corrupt goverment that had the US militarys backing its simply a silly arguement to try and put. Its like the indians with bows and arrows trying to go against the us army with rifles and artillary. Yeah you could cause a lot of problems but in the end your going to get anhilatted.
All power to you keep your guns its your right and i wouldnt any of my rights removed that i think i should be entitled to and have grown up with. But stay on track with legitamate arguments otherwise the other side are going to rip wholes in your arguement like i just have.
Well considering, that you didnt just rip holes in any part of my argument-you just said i was wrong and maybe repeated a few things that were stated about 20 posts ago-im not sure that this deserves a response and I think you should read back a few pages cause everything you just said has already been stated and replied to.
Well besides the fact that you just contradicted your example im going to respond to it.
The state Guards and militias are not controlled by the Federal Government as your example just proved. The Federal Government [I]should[I] be controlled by the states but weve pretty much drifted away from that in this era, while it seems the Feds control pretty much everything nowdays. My point is, If there was an uprising in Texas or Alabama, the national guard would rise to defend the people of the state. I can tell you that in a hypothetical war between Texas and the U.S. i wouldnt even have to think twice about which side i would sign up for. Im not sure about how other states are about that but around here we are very much still patriots of the people closest to us.
My point was that even though the National Guard/Militias are not controlled by the Federal Government they can often be more extreme than the government itself. Therefore, if an extreme right-wing government came to power, who is to say the militias wouldnt support it?
That said, to those people that believe that the Alabama National Guard was right, i guess my post wont really mean anything.
Well besides the fact that you just contradicted your example im going to respond to it.
The state Guards and militias are not controlled by the Federal Government as your example just proved. The Federal Government [i]should[i] be controlled by the states but weve pretty much drifted away from that in this era, while it seems the Feds control pretty much everything nowdays. My point is, If there was an uprising in Texas or Alabama, the national guard would rise to defend the people of the state. I can tell you that in a hypothetical war between Texas and the U.S. i wouldnt even have to think twice about which side i would sign up for. Im not sure about how other states are about that but around here we are very much still patriots of the people closest to us.
Yep, you are right. I forgot to mention that the states are different entities from the Federal government. The Feds are the guys that get to have their faces plastered on televisions across the planet, not the states, atleast not usually. There's alot of states in the south in particular that would be the very first to revolt if the Federal government ever became a dictatorship. Any sort of revolt would spread like wildfire across the country. I don't care how advanced our military is, the citizens WILL win. If dirt poor Iraqis can do it then so can filthy rich Americans.
Well considering, that you didnt just rip holes in any part of my argument-you just said i was wrong and maybe repeated a few things that were stated about 20 posts ago-im not sure that this deserves a response and I think you should read back a few pages cause everything you just said has already been stated and replied to.
Ok what am i missing you beleave one of the reason you should have guns is incase your goverment is corrupt so the people can fight back. Is that right ???
Because if thats the case you wouldnt win thats all im trying to say but yeah i will go and reread the last couple of pages.
And i thought that soldiers were taught to see enemy as simply that, not human, just a 'thing'. Therefore the enemy could take on any form. Are you saying that a US soldier couldnt attack a cult stronghold, similar to Waco (though obviously its not 'allowed' etc), because the people inside are US citizens? With enough propaganda, anyone can be made to appear as the enemy. Heard of the commies? How many US soldiers in the 1950's and 1960's wouldnt have wanted to kill a commie?
Well to be blunt, the Waco cult was not favored by the public. They seemed like a nation of aliens to the local people. People may feel bad about it but if you ask anybody theyll tell you it had to be done. I do understand that the cult members were "crushed under the mighty power of the government" but i dont see this as a valid example since they were too bent on self destruction to really put up a fight worth noting. It was also on a very small scale compared to the large scale rebellion that we are discussing.
You've misunderstood what i meant. What im trying to say is that US citizen or not, everyone can be perceived as the enemy given a certain amount of propaganda.
Yep, you are right. I forgot to mention that the states are different entities from the Federal government. The Feds are the guys that get to have their faces plastered on televisions across the planet, not the states, atleast not usually. There's alot of states in the south in particular that would be the very first to revolt if the Federal government ever became a dictatorship. Any sort of revolt would spread like wildfire across the country. I don't care how advanced our military is, the citizens WILL win. If dirt poor Iraqis can do it then so can filthy rich Americans.
Yes, exactly. We are not in a crippled economic state that would allow an opressive government to keep power like in post WW1 Germany and 1930's Russia.
To add another example to the discussion, the illegal mexican immigrants and even the legal ones who feel responsibilty to their people of common descent, if agitated and armed, i believe would have no problem defeating the police and making it unreasonable for the military to fight. And if concentrated they could take good sized pieces of the U.S. out of control of the government.
Thats the whole point, rebels cannot up front defeat any of the worlds militaries. Never have, never will. They CAN make it difficult to the point that the government decides the war isnt worth fighting. Take the South during the Civil War. If we had held off a little longer, the citizens of the North were getting tired of the war taxing them to death. (same as here, now during OP Iraqi Freedom by-god! its the same!) It would no longer be profitable for the north to continue the war and you would have the CSA.
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