EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

[Paas]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

...so, what I'm getting. I'm thinking that no matter "WHAT" facts are presented people will simply argue for the sake of the argument.

Devs say it's a no-go, shouldn't have gone, and has gone on too long. So, it will be fixed. Regardless of what the [MINORITY] competitive community says, it's going to be changed for the [MAJORITY] public community.

Get over it, adapt, overcome.

...and Dice/EA. Thank you.

{WP}Paas

[Eglaerinion]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Very happy with the change, like some people have already said finally the squadleader is valuable and not just an extra spawn to be used when he/she in a convenient location.

Oh and btw alot of those top clans complained about removing shooting while jumping because they couldn't chuck their C4 anymore. So how much credit I give to this petition, absolutle none!

[Tobacco]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

I'll wait and see how it plays out before I continue too bash it .



T

[Pilioka]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Anyone who agrees with this change is a moron. This has been in the game for a year now. Why the hell change it now? I leave and join my squad a lot so I don't have to run for 30 seconds to fight. Why would I want to waste time to play the game?

[Ognacy]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Anyone who agrees with this change is a moron. This has been in the game for a year now. Why the hell change it now? I leave and join my squad a lot so I don't have to run for 30 seconds to fight. Why would I want to waste time to play the game?

They have not explained why dont they want to make it a server-configurable feature. That would actually be good for all these ever-whining noobs, they can go play on their servers, with other noobs, and the rest of us can go on squad hop on other servers. Win-win.

The only explanation I see is they are a bunch of incompetent, mismanaged programmers who could not cope with abundant cheating, lack of optimization, red tag bug and other 'features' and just need something big to divert community attention to. If they say 'go fck yourselves' to competitive community they can expect exactly the same from said community. And sice the clans make websites, forums and publicity for FPP games, they will be hurt in the mid and long term.

Ognacy

p.s. and anyone who has been playing this game and believes that this change will out of a sudden turn all these clueless players into team-oriented squad members is showing extraordinary optimism. The net effect on regular gamers will be total lack of squads and juicy spawn raping. And guess what, competitive gamers are helluva lot better at this.

[th3 chr0nic]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

if they are going to do this they should give the Sl the option to resign as sl and the next person in line become sl without having to leave the squad. i for one dont play commander cause i want to fight not camp around and waste my time. bring on the camping and raping YAY (this sucks)

none of this matters tho cause as soon as 2142 comes out they will move on to that as their new cashcow

[RocketChild]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

none of this matters tho cause as soon as 2142 comes out they will move on to that as their new cashcow

This is going to be in 2142 also, I am sure they just built the module for it and are transplanting it to the base BF2 engine.

p.s. and anyone who has been playing this game and believes that this change will out of a sudden turn all these clueless players into team-oriented squad members is showing extraordinary optimism. The net effect on regular gamers will be total lack of squads and juicy spawn raping. And guess what, competitive gamers are helluva lot better at this.

Sorry, this is one of those situations where you are going to get F**cked in the a** and there is nothing you can do about it. Unless you want to take your marbles and go. Sometimes, dev's see thing differently and the only why to make a change is to go through with it. So, come back to this subject in a few months then let the community vent. I want to give it a try. To me, it is better for the game, though it might hurt. Personally, I like squad hopping when needed, but I feel it is truely unrealistic.

[parish]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Hey, I have an idea! Why not play on servers that have admins on and don't allow UNCAP raping? Wow.... imagine that. Oh wait; there are a ton of them out there. I guess that kind of shoots the spawn rape thing in the butt.

On the maps that do not have UNCAPS, you will have to learn to play as a team more to avoid those nasty situations. Which, by the way don't happen much to those of us who have learned how to cap and defend flags as a team.

Honestly, what's this really going to do? Maybe it will cause some hardships to those who us that feature as a crutch, but to those of us that use squads and don't hop or swap out SL every time someone dies, it won't change a thing. The game will stay the same.

There is one really nice feature, when there is only one guy left; if he is not a SL then there won't be a bunch of little roaches popping up where he is. Kill him and the game is over. nice.

[Paas]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

They have not explained why dont they want to make it a server-configurable feature.

A sever-configurable exploit? A cheat? That would be nuts. If the competitive community cannot adjust and adapt to this simple change, they are truely pathetic as a whole in my eyes (Although, I feel that the BULK of th e competitive community doesn't mind, will adapt, and thus' are being marred slightly by the few who are entirely too set in their ways).

That would actually be good for all these ever-whining noobs, they can go play on their servers, with other noobs,

So everyone who doesn't agree with you is a Noob? Wow... your arguement loses all merit right about here.

and the rest of us can go on squad hop on other servers. Win-win.

Sure. If it's unranked. I don't see the problem. Yet, it becomes an added issue of having to track the "Unranked" servers and keep tabs on what they ar e doing in relation to the ranked servers.

Basically, it's more work than is needed when simply "fixing" what they deem to be a "flaw" in the way a certain game mechanic is used; much like they "fixed" the M203. Somthing I still don't agree with and won't ever agree with, but have managed to find comfort in mods and play through it.

The only explanation I see is they are a bunch of incompetent, mismanaged programmers who could not cope with abundant cheating,

Why should they Cope? Who should "Cope" with cheating, they should abolish it to the best of their ability and what cannot be fixed leave it be. You cannot beat the will of a million + individuals who want to play outside of the rules of the game; no matter how much effort applied.

lack of optimization

This is just a pure ignorant statement. Plain and simple. Either you haven't seen some of the pre-release footage, or you're simply ignoring it. There has been an outrageous amount of optimization in BF2. More than I would like at times.

red tag bug

They are working on it, and have already stated they are aware of it. Constantly complaining about it while it's already declared a "target for developer attention" is pointless.

If they say 'go fck yourselves' to competitive community they can expect exactly the same from said community. And sice the clans make websites, forums and publicity for FPP games, they will be hurt in the mid and long term.

Bull. The competitive community is about the size of the realism community. At best 10%. AT BEST. You cannot honestly expect EA to base it's changes on what 10% of the community thinks or says? ...can you? I mean, yes, units rent servers. Units play all sorts of clan matches and blah blah blah, but the majority of "Joe Schmoes" out there don't get into that stuff; nor' do they care. They get on to play their game after a long day of work, before spending some time with their kids or hitting the books. They make of the majority, thus the bulk of sales, so thus they have the most impact in what EA changes.

It's foolish to think that EA would outright ignore the competitive community. The squad system and team-work mechanics are implace with the competitive community in mind (less this be another UT2004). Granted, most "Clanners" use TS/Vent. but having VOIP couldn't hurt? Having squad supporting kits couldn't hurt?

and anyone who has been playing this game and believes that this change will out of a sudden turn all these clueless players into team-oriented squad members is showing extraordinary optimism. The net effect on regular gamers will be total lack of squads and juicy spawn raping.

Somthing wrong with optimism? I have overall faith in the will for people to work together if "forced/givin' the right tools". I know that's wishfull thinking, but I prefer that to feeling that I'm "tied" to "hopping, flopping, and spraying, and tking" to simply compete.

And guess what, competitive gamers are helluva lot better at this.

Only because you seem to take some sense of pride in this. Not to mention your coordination stems outside of the realm of the Game. You can communicate past the commander between squads, etc. etc. If that level of communication was alotted to the public community you would find your actions a lot harder.

The competitive community as a whole is "NOT" as talented as it would like to belevie. It simply has not shame in jumping on some "Cheap" tactics that pubbers wouldn't find themselves daring to use (Dolphin Diving, Squad Hopping, Bunny Hopping, TKin' for Planes, etc. etc.)

Doesn't make you better, it makes you more of the,"By any means..." mindset. Which is all fine when cash is on the line, but not when fun is the only standard; which is the case with EA. Fun = More sales, Lack of Fun = Less interest and sales. It's a very simple equation.

{WP}Paas

[signa]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Let's get one thing straight. EA/DICE released and supports BF2 to make money - period. If a significant portion of its BF2 customers don't like something in the game then EA/DICE is going to take note of it.....

you are correct about that, except in this case it was only two 13 y/o noobs who got owned by squad hopping and complained to thier dads who work at dice. :laugh:

[sdm151]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

I honestly can't believe the pub community is in favor of this. What it will translate to is a successful squad having to keep their squad leader back away from the flag and away from combat. You know what this means, don't you? Less kills, less flag caps, less points (OMG!), and less medals to add to your collections. Of course, like 99% of pub play, no one will do this as a squad leader for the aforementioned reasons and the whole squad system will be a joke.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

Great! So this is going to make getting out of an uncappable spawn point (e.g. the carrier in Wake Island) even more difficult. That's just swell. Now if we see a squad leader out on the main land trying to secure a flag, we can't join his squad while we're constantly getting drilled down by J-10's. Thanks, EA/Dice.

Not to mention that squad leaders are already screwed over enough as it is. If they have to sit back and "play it safe", they'll get even fewer points than before. Sure, some people may not mind not getting points for flag captures or kills, but I imagine most people will be peeved about that.

Edit: By the way, I'm so glad that this "exploit" was considered such high priority that they decided to leave the missile dodging "abilities" of the F-18 and J-10 as they were. If you fire a missile at a J-10 that's flying in a straight line, why in the world should it "bounce off" and veer away from the target yielding no hit?

<sarcasm>Squad hopping on the other hand... yeesh. That's got to go.</sarcasm>

My thoughts exactly.

I haven't chirped in on this debate as I was letting it all sink in and thinking about it but I really can't see this as being a good change. The comment about wake really sums it up. Its going to be even more 1 sided after the patch. A tactic we would use was a player would jump in a jet at the start of the round, quickly get to a flag and jump, then the rest of the squad spawns in to cap the flag.

Also this is what I want to find out. If you are dead the squad buttons are greyed out. OK what happens at the start of the round before everyone spawns. Technically if you haven't spawned its the same as if you were dead. So the start of the round you won't be able to join a squad until you spawn. How is that going to make teamwork any better? All it will do is stop people from joining squads.

If they are going to implement this system then there needs to be some incentive for being an SL. If we are to play this way and play it properly then the SL should be hidden as a spawn point and not engage in battle. This is soooooooo boring. You may be lucky to end up with 2 points in a round as I have seen happen many times before from me playing SL this way and others in our clan playing SL this way. Why is that fair for the SL to only get 2 points or less? They should get points just like a commander does but the average points of their squad if they bring this in. Otherwise who the hell would want to play a squad leader this way?

[imported_CannonFodder]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

They should allow the squad leader to "nominate" a new leader.

[troybob]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

whole squad system will be a joke.

Back in 1942 we had to walk from a flag to another flag NO MATTER WHAT! No squad leaders. Just 6 feet of snow up-hill in every direction. And when we swam we had to avoid pirhanna's and sharks! We had to fight a Sumo wrestler for a plane that didn't even have missiles! We had to worry about where to put our carrier! No fancy difibulators. The tanks actually had to shoot at other tanks, not infantry. And the parachutes weren't as guidable. And there were no Huds.

Worst of all, back in 1942, there was no ranking system (eegatz! How did we live?)


Just do a better job of keeping the squad leader alive and you will be fine. No need to keep him out of the battle.

[RocketChild]

Re: EA/DICE: Squad hopping IS an exploit...

If they are going to implement this system then there needs to be some incentive for being an SL. If we are to play this way and play it properly then the SL should be hidden as a spawn point and not engage in battle. This is soooooooo boring. You may be lucky to end up with 2 points in a round as I have seen happen many times before from me playing SL this way and others in our clan playing SL this way. Why is that fair for the SL to only get 2 points or less? They should get points just like a commander does but the average points of their squad if they bring this in. Otherwise who the hell would want to play a squad leader this way?

I fully agree, there needs to be some incentives to being a SL. Like if members of you team cap a flag, you should get +1 point per member of your squad that is in the flag capping event...god that would make mad points if your a SL in the flag cap zone too. Maybe a lesser medal then a gold star for best SL in a round; it has been proposed before.

I still am for this system, and I know there are serious flaws with the logic in it. I am sure they will get worked out over time. But, just think if this had been in the game from the beginning, you would never have known what the game could have been like, just imagined it.

Problems I see, you could always have 9 squads with constant invites going on. That would suck. I am sure though, when a good squad gels, they will stick together through a few rounds. I am sure I am going to be kicking people left and right though from my squad...I don't do it much now, but I will want to keep quality people running with me.