A Possible Pro-Mode?

[|azure|]

Jaxon wrote..

Everyone who plays now and thinks they are hardcore will play pro. They will say "If you aren't playing pro, you are a newb." Others will play pro so they aren't called newbs.



Then you'll have "sv_pro 1" on any server with people playing and it wouldn't make any difference.



The article is also very short sighted.

INDEED! this sums it up perfectly.

[Thortok2000]

Edited by [user="152360"] @ [time="1081335739"]

BruiserY5K wrote..

Dude, this is what is annoying. You dont know what youre talking about, you havnet read the arguements, youve just come in and mouthed off because you want the game to stay as it is - thats fine, but theres no need to put in arguements that just make you look stupid.

I skimmed through them, which you would know if you had read my post instead of just quoted the parts you wanted to.

Read my comment before about recoil - ive given you clear examples. Why are you talking about recoil on full spray? Noones talking about that. Do a 2 bullet burst with ak till ure clip is empty, and ull see how random it becomes. Read the arguements before you comment.

So stop doing 2 bullet bursts? It's funny, I seem to kill and be killed by two-bullet burst headshots from 50 meters all the time...almost every time the AK holder comes into a position to shoot such a target. That's not random to me.



Besides, recoil doesn't jump the SAME way EVERY time. That's why it's recoil. Full Auto recoil is the same every time, however the first two bullets of it aren't. Big whoop. The AK is overpowered enough as it is without making it even MORE accurate.

Yeh - youre a noob - "i cant kill him, hes jumping around, valve removing jumping please, oh and slow it down so i can get more kills when camping" - yep, and what is most annoying is you dont know what youre talking about, havent read the arguements, yet made a massive comment slating off pro-mode with bad examples.

When did I ever say 'remove jumping', or any of that other crap? Dude, grow a brain before you start flaming. I'm saying here I am, two inches from his skin, blasting my gun at him, and I can't hit him because when he's jumping, his legs don't count anymore, and I'm too close to shoot his chest because his legs are between his chest and me. Try to shoot someone in the leg after they've jumped. You can't. It's because of the...yes...what I said the first time...HITBOXES.

The game has got boring compared to how it used to be because its been designed/changed to suit campers (again, read my previous comments, its still a good game). You want everyone to play stealth - why? It might be more realistic, but it sucks, and isnt fun - now a game where you have the option of doing either stealth or rambo style rushing in, and allows you to use ure SKILL, thats definately better.

This is all opinion and nothing I or anyone else is going to say will make a difference. The only thing I can tell you is that if you want a fast-paced game, play something else. The designers wanted this to be a COUNTER OPERATIVE FORCE and TERRORIST FORCE...not a bunch of morons running around shooting everyone. That's why they actually have OBJECTIVES instead of having fast-paced fy_iceworld ripoffs.

Valve and Cliffe have said that these changes were because cs is always in testing mode, and that they are testing different things (this was his reply to the issue of gamers being unhappy about the move from 1.3, ie lag jumping). Most of those that have played the game alot in wars in 1.3 and before will know how much more fun it is - I can guarantee that *most* of those who are arguing against these changes (not pro mode, but the actual changes) are newer players who dont know what they are talking about and are just flaming because they are scared of change. People like Thortok2000.

I was around in 1.3. Not much, played a couple lan games. It was 1.4 and 1.5 when I really got into it.



Game's still fun to me. I still play it several times a night weekly. So do millions of others.



And as far as your 'change', I welcome lots of change. I welcome change to improve the non-used guns. I welcome nerfing of the most-used guns. I welcome better hitboxes, and more damage dealt if it's done to the back...meaning it's a good idea to sneak up behind someone (this is already the case with a knife). I welcome better hostage AI.



I don't welcome 'run around gunning with better accuracy and more freedom of movement' which will only lead to YET MORE killing instead of objectives.

I still havent heard a single good point for not removing the lag jump. All ive seen is "i dislike it" or "its stupid" whereras the arguements for 1.3 jumping are solid and backed by most pros.

When the hitboxes for a jumping target are fixed, sure. Or, instead, tweak down the 'lag jump' so it's over more like 10 jumps as opposed to 3 or 4. But I don't want to see people jumping repeatedly for no reason other than that they're harder to hit. Strafing is good enough if they want to dodge bullets.

Its a shame that so many players have quit after 1.5 and 1.6, because it seems that alot of the current commnuity are players who have never played 1.3 or earlier, but yet feel the need to voice their opinions, which is understandable - but look at the facts, it seems that most of the beta and pre-1.3 players want these changes because they know that the game was better, faster, more fun, and it was just as tactical as it ever was - of course there will always be people who prefer different things and some will prefer a slower gameplay, but theres no doubt from my experience as well as many others and esp the pro's from their comments (again go read Shaguar's "show me the money") that the game is dying because its just not as fun and gotten immensely frustrating because of the randomness *as compered to* previous versions where you could actually use ure skill.

Explain to me how the game is dying. Explain to me how so many people are quitting...when there are still CAL tournaments.



All your 'facts' are completely opinionated. You simply want more 'aiming and moving' skill, whereas I (and most others) feel that there should be more 'outwitting', so that the smart people can kill the morons who have aimhack, or good enough 'skills' to rival it.

F13ND wrote..

Thortok it sounds to me like you have not even played a year of cs. Your one of those kids that hide around the corner in cs pubs and think that you are cool when you gay someone. Then... when someone checks the spot again and comes around the corner shooting to kill you and it happens, you whine. why would the NOT be able to get a hs on you if they are that close and with an ak... oh and

I won't be in the same spot, moron. That's the whole point of 'outwitting'. If I was in the same spot, then /I'd/ be the stupid one. I line myself up to shoot the guy in the back when he goes to check the last spot. Unless I feel that my spot is good enough to defend even when they know I'll be there (like a long corridor with a sniper rifle).



For an example...I'll hide around a corner from a hallway branching out into a room, and kill someone. Next round, I'll hide on the other side of the hallway and shoot them as they come blaring out, pre-shooting the corner that I was at last time. Next round, they come running up, stop, peek one way, peek the other...and I'm hiding behind a box in the middle of the room and peek out to kill them because I heard them run up and stop. THEN they start walking, or go another way or use nades...as in not simply run and gun anymore.



The thing that gets me is when they come bursting out of the hallway, I start shooting them, they turn around and pop a headshot on me. I out-thought them, if I hadn't started shooting, they'd never have known I was there. They were stupid, idiot morons for announcing their presence and not being careful. THEY SHOULD DIE. Not jump, turn around, and kill me, faster than I can kill them, and walk away with above 50 health. THAT'S what I'm complaining about.



As for AK headshots, I only whine about that because with them in particular (because their recoil goes up), the head hitboxes at long range become quite easily hit, the head is about 4 pixels big but the hitboxes is like the size of a dime on your monitor. Fix the hitboxes and there's no problem with the AK at all, and CQB is fine.



Seriously use your freakin' brain, stop, and think for a few minutes before you just type something out to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.

are you actually saying that because someone can jump more that there will be no more tactics involved in cs? that just proves to me how "new'' you are to cs. Go watch some old demos and tell me there is no tactics involved. (as long as they dont include people in pubs...)

No, because people will jump more, then everyone will be jumping, so it's just the same tactics as always, but with more jumping around like idiots. It adds a 'level' of skill to play...a level that's completely ludicrous and unnecessary. It may be more 'fun' to you, perhaps, to scramble around doing cartwheels while landing headshots...but for me, I want the game to be just a wee bit more realistic than that.



PEOPLE DO NOT JUMP LIKE MANIACS IN REAL GUNFIGHTS. In fact, in most other first-person shooters, there's rarely any jumping. Some don't even have a jump function. The number of times, total, that a 5v5 match should have jumping is perhaps maybe 20...used for boosting, mainly, or climbing. Not for dodging bullets.



Here's an idea...how about you take double damage while in midair? That way, if you're 'skilled' enough to dodge bullets by being some kind of jackrabbit who doesn't like touching the ground, you'll die just the same with anyone who can aim.



Another idea...while jumping, your accuracy can be as sucky as on a ladder. And for a whole second after you land, to adjust to the 'shock' of landing. You shouldn't be able to hit anything. After all, jumping like you're on a pogo stick is to dodge bullets, right? NOT TO FIRE BACK? It's completely unrealistic for people wearing all this gear to jump around when they're under fire.



I also feel recoil and such should be lessened while you're crouching, instead of being almost exactly the same crouching as standing. There's your better accuracy...AT THE COST OF MOVEMENT.



Get this through your head...faster movement and better accuracy = quake. You either move fast or you shoot well...the two together will ruin the point of Counter Strike.

Last i heard killing the whole team = a round won? maybe im wrong but if you dont die at all its kinda hard to loose too. But thats just my experience.

Unless you're the last person on the T's with only a glock, plant the bomb, and the other 5, awesome at killing people, are over at T spawn because they thought you were AFK and came hunting you, and your team gets the win without any deaths on CT side. You outwitted them and won the round, without any conflict.



Objectives. They're a part of CS. Know them. Learn them. PLAY THEM. The game is NOT about how many people you can kill.

[Del`]

lol Thortok, I just lol IRL at your tone.



1st. You are a retailer!!



2nd. Even worse you didn't even play CS before 1.4 - so how the hell do you know what it was like? Stop commenting on things you know nothing about.



Also as for the realism aspect. CS was never meant to be reallistic. It's still nowhere close to reallistic and never will be. It would spoil the game. IRL if you get hit by anything more than an air rifle, even in the foot, (let alone 20 rounds from a tmp as you see in CS) you won't be firing back. It's not like films.



If you want a reallistic "Terrorist - Counter Terrorist" game, go and play Raven Shield. Everything you want. I think you'd enjoy it. Perhaps Ghost Recon too. Anyway, you'd stop moaning and wanting to change CS into what it isn't, and shouldn't be.

[WiLD^CarD]

Edited by [user="120077"] @ [time="1081356701"]

I'm all for pro-mode and I hope it gets implemented as soon as possible.

[Thortok2000]

It's not meant to be as realistic as it can be, of course not, I never said that.



But I'd like to see it a bit more realistic than "let's see who can touch the ground the least!"

[F13ND]

Throtok you make me laugh....



Besides, recoil doesn't jump the SAME way EVERY time. That's why it's recoil. Full Auto recoil is the same every time, however the first two bullets of it aren't. Big whoop. The AK is overpowered enough as it is without making it even MORE accurate.



Ak isnt overpowered... and with its spray it is one of the least accurate guns in the game. And cs spray is pretty much the same every time you spray a whole clip... up and to the right. But the way you said it, your saying that the first two bullets arent accurate? In my experience, the first two bullets are and should be the most accurate. so... ur whole point you tried to make.. moot.



I'm saying here I am, two inches from his skin, blasting my gun at him, and I can't hit him because when he's jumping, his legs don't count anymore, and I'm too close to shoot his chest because his legs are between his chest and me. Try to shoot someone in the leg after they've jumped.



Have you every used an awp? Whenever they jump, you usually hit them in the leg... so dont go around whining about jumping leg hitboxes.



The thing that gets me is when they come bursting out of the hallway, I start shooting them, they turn around and pop a headshot on me. I out-thought them, if I hadn't started shooting, they'd never have known I was there. They were stupid, idiot morons for announcing their presence and not being careful. THEY SHOULD DIE.



Skill > pub tactics... that is why this is called a "first person shooter". Want tactics? again... go play an mmorpg.



It may be more 'fun' to you, perhaps, to scramble around doing cartwheels while landing headshots...but for me, I want the game to be just a wee bit more realistic than that.



here... help yourself out and play a REAL real game

http://www.computer-games-station.com/v...ames/5852.htm



PEOPLE DO NOT JUMP LIKE MANIACS IN REAL GUNFIGHTS. In fact, in most other first-person shooters, there's rarely any jumping. Some don't even have a jump function.



ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THIS? or are you just exxagerating... because i dont believe you.



Another idea...while jumping, your accuracy can be as sucky as on a ladder. And for a whole second after you land, to adjust to the 'shock' of landing. You shouldn't be able to hit anything.



Since when is it not like this?? Maybe im playing the wrong cs can someone point me to cs 1.6?



Unless you're the last person on the T's with only a glock, plant the bomb, and the other 5, awesome at killing people, are over at T spawn because they thought you were AFK and came hunting you, and your team gets the win without any deaths on CT side. You outwitted them and won the round, without any conflict.



Yah in which case everyone on the ct team should quit competitive (or pub... rofl) cs for the rest of their lives. That is why you guard the bomb and the bombsite... but maybe you would call that camping... which cs has become a haven for...



AND last but certainly not least



Objectives. They're a part of CS. Know them. Learn them. PLAY THEM. The game is NOT about how many people you can kill.



Dont talk to me about objectives... unlike you i have experience outside of the good old pub... I know all of them... Ive learned all of them... and i play them all the time every day. But guess what, you cant complete these objectives if your dead. Hence... killing people and being good at it

[Thortok2000]

Edited by [user="152360"] @ [time="1081397762"]

F13ND wrote..

Throtok you make me laugh....

Good. I'm glad you can laugh at how silly you sound. ^_^

Ak isnt overpowered... and with its spray it is one of the least accurate guns in the game. And cs spray is pretty much the same every time you spray a whole clip... up and to the right. But the way you said it, your saying that the first two bullets arent accurate? In my experience, the first two bullets are and should be the most accurate. so... ur whole point you tried to make.. moot.

I actually went and tested it in an empty server today. The first bullet of two bullet burts were pretty accurate, the second weren't. Half the bullets were in a little cloud where I was aiming, half of them were in a big semi-heart shaped thing above and to the right and above and to the left.



This was at 'midrange', I'd guess about 30 meters or so. Close range, such as 10-15 meters, had 100% accuracy. Long range had a little bit of recoil, but with only 1-2 bullet bursts this was reduced and the long range accuracy was better than the midrange.



You can see these symptoms more clearly when you shoot at players as opposed to walls, however. Because (as I've said before), the hitboxes are the problem. Maybe the second bullet of your 2 bullet burst went 15 feet above his head....but he died to a headshot, instantly killed by this 2 bullet burst (at long distance), so who cares where the bullet hole on the wall is?



As I've said before, recoil and such is NOT the problem. Hitboxes and interp are.



And please, if the AK wasn't overpowered, then everyone would be using the gun that WAS overpowered. "AK isn't overpowered" arguements simply don't fly.

Have you every used an awp? Whenever they jump, you usually hit them in the leg... so dont go around whining about jumping leg hitboxes.

And whenever you shoot them in the leg, they're usually 60 meters away from you or thereabouts. Not two inches. Maybe you haven't actually looked at the game at all, but hitboxes vary with distance.

Skill > pub tactics... that is why this is called a "first person shooter". Want tactics? again... go play an mmorpg.

Say this again in english? If I'm playing a 1v1, and I'm thinking and he's not, I should win. If I'm playing a 2v2, and I'm thinking and nobody else is, we should come out ahead most of the time, especially if my partner follows my lead.



Define what 'pub tactics' are, and why 'skill' (which you also need to define) should be, in your opinion, greater.

here... help yourself out and play a REAL real game

http://www.computer-games-station.com/v...ames/5852.htm

I didn't even bother to check the link. I don't really care what it is. The point is that Counter-Strike is semi-realistic. It doesn't have a rocket-launcher in it, for instance. And this doesn't address the idea that jumping around is just pointless, ludicrous, and adds another level of 'skill' that IS NOT NECESSARY. And isn't even fun, to most.

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THIS? or are you just exxagerating... because i dont believe you.

People may dive for cover, but they don't whip out their pogo stick and go "you can't hit me you can't hit me!" The only 'jumping' people do when they start getting shot it may be out of being startled, and that's only an inch or so unless they're made of rubber.

Since when is it not like this?? Maybe im playing the wrong cs can someone point me to cs 1.6?

The instant you touch ground again you have exactly the same amount of accuracy you have at any other time you're touching the ground. There's no 'shock delay'. Ever played awp_map? People leap out from cover to dodge the bullet and land a shot the instant they land...with 100% accuracy. They can even do this while still in scoped vision.

Yah in which case everyone on the ct team should quit competitive (or pub... rofl) cs for the rest of their lives. That is why you guard the bomb and the bombsite... but maybe you would call that camping... which cs has become a haven for...

Wow...so you're advocating a slow paced game where the CT's stay at the bombsite and don't go hunt down the person who's staying alive only so they can keep their awp or whatever? Wow...slow paced...smart thinking...camping....



....wait a sec, weren't you saying this was BAD earlier, and that you wanted to go out leapfrogging like some sort of Neo Bullet-Dodger and go kill the guy, because you wanted to have a 'fun, fast-paced game'?



So which do you want, intelligent tactics, even if they're 'slow' in your opinion, or run-and-gunning?

Dont talk to me about objectives... unlike you i have experience outside of the good old pub... I know all of them... Ive learned all of them... and i play them all the time every day. But guess what, you cant complete these objectives if your dead. Hence... killing people and being good at it

I've scrimmed a bit within the past month or so. The game doesn't seem that different except for a bit higher level of skill expected (not much), and about infinitely better teamwork.



And by 'all of them'...you mean DE, right? Because I'm sure you've never played an ES map, much less scrimmed one. AS maps you play once in a blue moon, and the CS maps you play ONLY when you get tired of DE maps.



Not quite sure, but I also think most leagues only allow DE and maybe CS. That's not 'all' of the objectives.



As far as the pro mode, which is what this entire thread is about, it won't happen because nobody would play anything except pro mode. It's pointless to have a 'mode' for it at all.



As for the changes, they involve more 'skill' that isn't really necessary.



Suggest what you like, but I stand by my equation that you either move fast (which includes such things as jumping, strafing, and running), or you have better accuracy (which includes such thing as camping, crouching, and scopes).



To combine the two to closely makes to a 'run-and-gun' where everyone that can't shoot well will quit because they'll keep dying. THEN CS will die, because there won't be any new players and all the old ones will reach their glass ceiling in terms of skill, get bored of the game after a few months, and quit as well. There'll also be EVEN MORE hacks that'll automatically jump for you when they detect someone's crosshairs on you or whatever.



There's also been arguements before about how the changes make 'newbies able to kill elites'. No...they only allow SMART newbies to kill STUPID elites. So that Intelligent Skilled > Intelligent Unskilled > Unintelligent Skilled > Unintelligent Unskilled. This works, this is fine, and makes for a good game. Changes that continue in this thread are fine.



You're suggesting that Unintelligent Skilled = Intelligent Skilled > Unintelligent Unskilled = Intelligent Unskilled, with the only variety being who's more skilled, not who's more intelligent. And that's a very sucky equation for a game.

[plogo]

Thortok2000:



You are missing the point. It is not a matter of suggesting that Unintelligent Skilled = Intelligent Skilled > Unintelligent Unskilled = Intelligent Unskilled. That would mean that in 1.3 we just ran like chickens without heads.



Nope.



There was simply more of a focus on individual skill than there is now.

I guess you feel that the game is better without quick switch and jumping, but honestly I think that if you are actually scrimming and learning how to play the game, as you improve you will see how the game could use a faster pace with a greater focus on individual skill.



By your comments it is very obvious that you have only taken the first steps in competitive play, so I can excuse you're ignorence, but please... if you are going to comment on this you can at least try getting a scrim in #1.3 (not totally sure how much of that actually goes on, but its worth a shot) on gamesurge to have a taste of scrimming with a greater focus on individual skill. For me, its just sad that you are so set against these changes despite the fact you haven't given them a shot. I've given this type of cs a couple of years, I just ask you give the previous type of cs a chance as well.

[Pharlap]

Thortok2000 wrote..

No...they only allow SMART newbies to kill STUPID elites. So that Intelligent Skilled > Intelligent Unskilled > Unintelligent Skilled > Unintelligent Unskilled. This works, this is fine, and makes for a good game.

possibly the best argument yet put forth.

[F13ND]

Thortok you just admitted that you have almost no experience in competitive cs. How can you say how bad this mode will be when youve never played in the way that this mode would be played. If this is just a "mode" it will never touch your precious pubs where you can hide around a different corner every round and, in a very popular cs term, "gay" people.



And by 'all of them'...you mean DE, right? Because I'm sure you've never played an ES map, much less scrimmed one. AS maps you play once in a blue moon, and the CS maps you play ONLY when you get tired of DE maps.



Ive played cs for over two years... id like for you to find almost any map that i havent played... and now i almost only play de_maps because i dont pub much...



Not quite sure, but I also think most leagues only allow DE and maybe CS. That's not 'all' of the objectives.



Again you show what you are talking about... all leagues only use de maps... except for maybe ogl, which you should REALLY think about joining.



Wow...so you're advocating a slow paced game where the CT's stay at the bombsite and don't go hunt down the person who's staying alive only so they can keep their awp or whatever? Wow...slow paced...smart thinking...camping....



HELLO? that is competitive cs smarts... theres a difference between fast paced cs and stupid cs.... again go dl some 1.3 demos. Tactics arent much different just the skill.



No...they only allow SMART newbies to kill STUPID elites. So that Intelligent Skilled > Intelligent Unskilled > Unintelligent Skilled > Unintelligent Unskilled



that is the random factor or maybe you neglected to read this whole thread? its not that the better people are stupid... that would actually not make them good at all...



The only 'jumping' people do when they start getting shot it may be out of being startled, and that's only an inch or so unless they're made of rubber.



OK obviously you didnt get the first thing i said where you were telling people that cs was the only fps with jumping involved... gg on that. But with this... PEOPLE DO YOU JUMPING TO TRY AND DODGE BULLETS, that same way you can you crouching. you jump to try to dodge an awp... but maybe in your YeARS of experience you havent figured this out?



To combine the two to closely makes to a 'run-and-gun' where everyone that can't shoot well will quit because they'll keep dying. THEN CS will die, because there won't be any new players and all the old ones will reach their glass ceiling in terms of skill, get bored of the game after a few months, and quit as well. There'll also be EVEN MORE hacks that'll automatically jump for you when they detect someone's crosshairs on you or whatever



ROFL at this whole comment... how do you think it was when people started playing cs in 1.3 and before?? I played in this environment and it seems like the best people playing cs right now did too. I guess it kinda weeded out the people who couldnt take it and so those that stayed got better. And cs players now dont get bored of it and quit.. they get tired of the bad changes that keep getting made to cs. ANd jumping hacks rofl.

[Smittins]

No experience in competitive cs? Then this mod doesn't concern you, move along please.

[Spoonman]

Smittins wrote..

No experience in competitive cs? Then this mod doesn't concern you, move along please.

I would imagine it concerns everyone in the CS community. For example, what if a pubber wanted to go into league play? Then he would have to deal with this "pro mod" even before joining a clan.



This brings up another good point that introducing a "pro mod" into the community will have the effect of stifling clan creation and new players joining clans since everyone will have to "re-learn" and become skilled again in this new mode. Imagine if CAL started enforcing the WarCraft 3 mod in all their matches. This is why I'm confident the major leagues (pardon the pun) will not support this "pro mod" in any fashion.



It's just a bad idea no matter what angle you look from it. There are no redeeming qualities at all, except for these:

» Radar transparency

» Removal of shield

» Flashbang bugs

The CS team is already working on radar transparency.



They forgot to include this one as well:

» Regular updates to VAC every week or at other regular time intervals

[Thortok2000]

Edited by [user="152360"] @ [time="1081449315"]

plogo wrote..

There was simply more of a focus on individual skill than there is now.

Which is the entire reason I disagree with it. I think of competitive CS as a team game. One super-ubergod who can play 100% perfectly, and 4 newbies, should not beat a team of 5 people who are slightly less than the super-ubergod.



The only reason individual skill should really shine is in PUBS because there, they don't play as a team. Raising individual skill will only DECREASE the amount of teamwork in teams, as newbie clans will just try to get the five best players they can, and screw how well their teamwork is.



Of course, clans with 5 good members AND good teamwork would still win, but clans with good teamwork, yet not as much individual skill, will completely lose to clans without any teamwork at all, that can just frag anything that comes near them.



Again I say, if you increase the skill level, all it does is make it easier for stupid people to kill intelligent people.

F13ND wrote..

Thortok you just admitted that you have almost no experience in competitive cs. How can you say how bad this mode will be when youve never played in the way that this mode would be played. If this is just a "mode" it will never touch your precious pubs where you can hide around a different corner every round and, in a very popular cs term, "gay" people.

Because pubs aren't where I want to play. I enjoy playing on pubs, but scrims are much more fun, because then there's actually teamwork. (Which again, individual skill would remove the need for, at least with low-level clans.)



Also, if this increases the amount of skill required...and ISN'T USED BY PUBS...then whoever pubs but wants to start scrimming will have to learn this new, more-skilled required mode...and will suck at it, at least at first, until he gets some practice.



But no clan will want to take him for practice, because he's a newbie at this 'mode' and with the individual skill counting for more, the clan will want 5 good players, not 4 good ones and a smart newbie.



So what will happen when this pubber wants to become a scrimmer? He'll join pubs that have the pro mode activated. And eventually everyone will.



The major aspect of the leagues is that they play THE SAME GAME that is in the pubs. I've made that point before (and narby made it first) but apparently it's been ignored.



So it effects the entire community, regardless. Pubs will do whatever the leagues do, with a little bit of variety for the personal preference of the server's owner, such as custom maps or warcraft 3 mod or +hook or scoutzknives or whatever.

that is the random factor or maybe you neglected to read this whole thread? its not that the better people are stupid... that would actually not make them good at all...

Say again in English?

OK obviously you didnt get the first thing i said where you were telling people that cs was the only fps with jumping involved... gg on that. But with this... PEOPLE DO YOU JUMPING TO TRY AND DODGE BULLETS, that same way you can you crouching. you jump to try to dodge an awp... but maybe in your YeARS of experience you havent figured this out?

The reason people dodge awps by jumping is because the jumping hitboxes and interp is harder to hit than the strafing ones, at the moment, where an awp with bad aim or slower reflexes will shoot behind you but hit you anyway.



Heck, I wouldn't mind the jumping if it only dodged awp bullets (I don't like awp's one-hit-kill but that's another topic entirely). But for any other gun, you shouldn't be dodging bullets that way.



Again, I say, the interp and hitboxes are the major problem here. Fixing those will give you back the 'skill' and reduce the 'randomness' quite enough. That's what you're complaining about, whether you know it or not. Adding things like more mobility or better accuracy aren't important unless you completely ignore the hitboxes and such.



In a side note, I agree with everything Spoonman just said, except perhaps the removal of the shield. That's debatable, but I can see it not being allowed in scrims and matches, that's fine with me. Nobody uses it much (or well) anyway.

[F13ND]

You give interp and hitboxes too much credit thor. Thers is no proof at all that jumping hitboxes are easier to hit than strafing ones. In fact common sense would say the opposite.



I dont think that you understand cs whatsoever. You seem to think that just because someon has skill and can kill people, that they arent smart and cant use teamwork. When you do finally get some experience in scrimming and leagues i think that you WILL change your mind. There are just some things that pubbers cannot understand about cs obviously.



I think of competitive CS as a team game. One super-ubergod who can play 100% perfectly, and 4 newbies, should not beat a team of 5 people who are slightly less than the super-ubergod.



and they dont... i can think of a couple cal o clans this season that had one cal p /i player on them and did not do as well as teams that were more balances. Reducing recoil and speeding up the game will not hurt the teamplay at all. You seem to think that if you kill people, thats all you will do. I really still do think that you NEED to watch a 1.3 demo and see what im talking about.



The only reason individual skill should really shine is in PUBS because there, they don't play as a team. Raising individual skill will only DECREASE the amount of teamwork in teams, as newbie clans will just try to get the five best players they can, and screw how well their teamwork is.



Newbie clans will be newbies... if they are only good at killing people you dont want them. Its even like that now. BUT where do you think that the good clans come from. They get good players but ones who are smart as well. And they WORK on their teamwork. Getting this mode would change none of that. And who cares about individual skills in pubs? Look at some of the cal i players who are praised for their skills. How do you think they are cal i? That whole statement is completely wrong. Teamwork will remain as it always has but skill will be more important.



Leagues do not play the same games as pubs either. Cal.cfg? It is in essence the same game but it is played in a completely different way. You probably wouldnt understand as you have just begun to scrim yourself. But, people who understand me know where im coming from.



Im sorry but individual skill will always count for more. That is how life is. It doesnt matter how well you play in your team. If you cant kill a thing then ur basically worthless.

[BlueCold]

this point hasnt been brought up for a bit but this is my first point.

If everyone liked the old version of cs better, why is there only 4 servers right now playing cs-classic, and all of them are empty?