A Possible Pro-Mode?

[foff]

a pro mode basketball would only be needed if they changed the basic laws of physics which is the equivalent of what they hav done in cs. stop making bad comparisons



he has said a updated version is to be posted on sogamed

[Smittins]

I didn't read the article and I didn't read most of the comments, though Spoonman and Nighthawk (as always) had something useful to say, and even narby showed up to put in his two cents, which was also worth reading.

If you're not gonna even bother reading the article, don't bother commenting.

[Del`]

SDSU being from the UK I would consider tactics as being the same thing as tactics in football (or sahhccer as you Americans call it).



Ie 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 5-3-1-1 - The team's formation (attacking, defensive, relative positions).



And movement, ie "wing backs making forward runs" "second striker cutting inside to recieve the through ball" "Campbell to mark Hasselbaink" - instructions for how the players should move and play.



Applying only to proper organsied games. You don't have tactics in a kickabout down the park, jumpers for goalposts as the saying goes - and the same thing goes for CS. Tactics is not a part of public play, at the largest extent you might have some friends playing together on external voicecom and co-ordinating to rush the same bombsite.



But for an individual player tactics, as my understanding of what the word means do not come into it.

[Spoonman]

Del` wrote..

Good clans will still win games, but in the old days a good player in a game vs a worse clan could go the whole game without dieing.

Last I checked the number of rounds won in a match determines the victor in most leagues, not the K ratio.

When did you "transition from pub play to league play"? If it was after 1.3 I don't see how you can offer a qualified opinion.

I started playing CS at BETA 7~7.1 I was in a clan during the 1.3 to 1.4 transition. I was also in the 1.4 BETA test (first version of Steam.) Frankly, I didn't like the change in jumping from 1.3 to 1.4 at first, but now I've gotten used to it. Taking jumping out of CS really hasn't "ruined" CS for me, although you get that impression from some people.

I don't even play public anymore because the game has got so random and slow.

Doesn't seem too much slower to me, and like I said, other than some Deagle curiosities, I can still get good two-shot burst head shots. And I suck.

Stop manipulating what people say and come up with some points that actually make sense in their own right.

I'm sorry if making a cohesive and persuasive argument is manipulative.

Oh and would people stop going on about bunny-hopping. The point is not to bring back bunnyhopping, this would be avoided, it's just to increase the pace of the game.

I was talking about jumping around like an idiot, not bunny hopping, sorry for the confusion.

[Ghengis]

Whilst trying to grass up some cheating gits, and giving info to UA i have ntoiced, that a lot of the changes expounded here seem to be just a little bit like what using hax gives to the cehat now, less recoil, dumb jumping accuracy, ridicuous fragfest pace. It all makes sense now. All the 7337 player ARE haxing, and weve been fooled all along! :p

[azz0r]

[BruiserY5K]

Thortok2000 : "Nah, the problem isn't the recoil, the problem's the hitboxes and stuff. It's almost impossible to shoot someone in the back of the head and get a headshot. Even an AFK."



Dude, this is what is annoying. You dont know what youre talking about, you havnet read the arguements, youve just come in and mouthed off because you want the game to stay as it is - thats fine, but theres no need to put in arguements that just make you look stupid.



Read my comment before about recoil - ive given you clear examples. Why are you talking about recoil on full spray? Noones talking about that. Do a 2 bullet burst with ak till ure clip is empty, and ull see how random it becomes. Read the arguements before you comment.



Thortok2000 : "And stuff like the jumping hitboxes. I begin shooting an awper from two feet away with my M4, he jumps, and awps me, and takes about 25-50 damage, total, whereas I of course die, because my arm got shot by an awp.



It's the kind of stuff like that that annoys me. Where the run and gunners get completely outwitted, do some fancy shenanigans and come out winning anyway. Like how people will just run all around the map killing anyone they see without giving a split second for thinking about stealth at all, just because they can kill the enemies better than they can kill him."



Yeh - youre a noob - "i cant kill him, hes jumping around, valve removing jumping please, oh and slow it down so i can get more kills when camping" - yep, and what is most annoying is you dont know what youre talking about, havent read the arguements, yet made a massive comment slating off pro-mode with bad examples.



The game has got boring compared to how it used to be because its been designed/changed to suit campers (again, read my previous comments, its still a good game). You want everyone to play stealth - why? It might be more realistic, but it sucks, and isnt fun - now a game where you have the option of doing either stealth or rambo style rushing in, and allows you to use ure SKILL, thats definately better.



Valve and Cliffe have said that these changes were because cs is always in testing mode, and that they are testing different things (this was his reply to the issue of gamers being unhappy about the move from 1.3, ie lag jumping). Most of those that have played the game alot in wars in 1.3 and before will know how much more fun it is - I can guarantee that *most* of those who are arguing against these changes (not pro mode, but the actual changes) are newer players who dont know what they are talking about and are just flaming because they are scared of change. People like Thortok2000.



I still havent heard a single good point for not removing the lag jump. All ive seen is "i dislike it" or "its stupid" whereras the arguements for 1.3 jumping are solid and backed by most pros.



Its a shame that so many players have quit after 1.5 and 1.6, because it seems that alot of the current commnuity are players who have never played 1.3 or earlier, but yet feel the need to voice their opinions, which is understandable - but look at the facts, it seems that most of the beta and pre-1.3 players want these changes because they know that the game was better, faster, more fun, and it was just as tactical as it ever was - of course there will always be people who prefer different things and some will prefer a slower gameplay, but theres no doubt from my experience as well as many others and esp the pro's from their comments (again go read Shaguar's "show me the money") that the game is dying because its just not as fun and gotten immensely frustrating because of the randomness *as compered to* previous versions where you could actually use ure skill.

[Del`]

Exactly - I don't see how someone who only started playing matches at the very end of 1.3 is qualified to comment.



I've been playing matches since beta 6, back in 1.0 ages before you started matches etc I was a cupadmin for the CS Eurocup, I watched demos and followed all the pro-level clans and tournaments of the time, ie NiP, TAMM, X3. Did you back then? Basically you don't have the experience where it counts mate.

appended @ [time="1081271748"]

If you never really played matches 1.4, how can you comment on how they were then?

[Supersonic^]

Smittins wrote..

Wow...that's just retarded.



Firstly, there's no such thing as an SAS "agent".



My main point is, you can out Joe Six Pack at one end of a field, and your "Agent" at the other end and hand each other a rifle, and the SAS man will kill the other EVERY time.



Ultimately, either viewpoint is mute though, since CS is a game, where fun should prevail over realism.

It's still possible for the Joe Six Pack to kill the SAS agent if he gets lucky.



Same in CS. BUT, if you follow a similar analogy, a CS vet vs. a CS nub in 1v1, the CS vet would win every round.



Your post is, mostly, bullshit. But, yes, there is no such thing as a "SAS Agent".

[K-16]

Edited by [user="5650"] @ [time="1081278188"]

F13ND wrote..

The hitboxes and randomness need to be fixed more than anything. Shooting someone in the head only to have the bullet go through their head is not fun. Neither is aiming a foot away from a head and getting a headshot. The spray is almost useless after spraying anything past 7-8 bullets. People HAVE learned to compensate for this though. But why take away skill and replace it with, at times, random luck.

Ok so I'm not the only one noticing this? Can someone clarify this and provide proof that F13ND and I are blind? I mean no offense to F13ND, but it's hard to believe this even though I have seen something similar. Granted I didn't see any bullets go through someone's head model-wise and have it count as a miss (I don't really see any bullet-tracers, but that's probably because I don't pay attention), but I have been seeing half an inch off shots register as a headshot. Even occasional (OCCASIONAL, NOT ALWAYS) shoulder shots count as a headshot mysteriously (the majority of these cases took place while I was crouching and burst-firing).



As for the jumping to avoid AWM fire, I must admit I do find it very aggravating to be killed by a sniper simply because I was temporarily paralyzed after jumping, but the problem to begin with, is that nobody really thought of a solution for bunny-hopping. Most people are thinking in one direction without any compensation for the other. I mean sure, having more mobility feels great and seems to make the game faster-paced, but what about the sillyness and embarassment of people hopping around with knives in their hands? Doesn't the word, "bunny-hopping" sound pretty stupid? There has been some suggestions about using the DoD stamina system, but if I recall correctly, there were numerous arguments as to why that won't work. Unfortunately I can't think of a method to counter bunny-hopping. NS had the right idea, but I suspect people managed to work-around it and hop like people with no pride once again.



Back on topic (sorry for side-tracking), I find that the pro-mode seems quite unnecessary since it merely reflects that people play the game so much that they can see very small issues as serious problems. I mean, I'm sure other tactical FPS have bigger problems that nobody noticed.

[{Sose}]

Smittins wrote..

Wow...that's just retarded.



Firstly, there's no such thing as an SAS "agent".



My main point is, you can out Joe Six Pack at one end of a field, and your "Agent" at the other end and hand each other a rifle, and the SAS man will kill the other EVERY time.



Ultimately, either viewpoint is mute though, since CS is a game, where fun should prevail over realism.

Firstly, Thats what they want you to think! [/joke]



Mainly, the point isn't about "aim" (besides, most CS players never have actually shot a gun, or so I believe), the point is that a gun is a gun, whether in the hands of a trained professional, or in the hands of Ned, the pizza boy.



Oh, and he won't kill him "EVERY time", good 'ol law of probability. (Or whatever the hell it's called)

[ZackMorris]

The whole "CS is getting old and sux now" complaints are getting old. Think of it as a girlfriend (for some of you guys it might not be possible, so think of it as watching porn) ....



At first sight you loved being with this game/girl/porn ... Then as time went on, the little things that didn't matter as a whole started to bug you (losing your precious bunny-hop/smell of vagina in the morning/the way that porn stars nipples looked) and you loose contact with the real reason you love this game/girl/porn.



So we as a community need to stop fretting and complaining about the little things and get back to the place in time where we just had fun fragging/spanking and pulling hair/imaging actually boning that porn star)

[Del`]

The funniest people on the internet?



1. AOL users



2. People who think army or shooting experience in real life actually counts for something in games, and go on endlessly about the realism of guns. You know the ones, they always type in a brusque manner and have an avatar that's something to do with the army. They join clans called things like [101st] or [46th Rifles], where they put ranks into their tags like *MAJ* *CPL* *GNL*.

[BruiserY5K]

K-16 wrote..

Ok so I'm not the only one noticing this? Can someone clarify this and provide proof that F13ND and I are blind? I mean no offense to F13ND, but it's hard to believe this even though I have seen something similar. Granted I didn't see any bullets go through someone's head model-wise and have it count as a miss (I don't really see any bullet-tracers, but that's probably because I don't pay attention), but I have been seeing half an inch off shots register as a headshot. Even occasional (OCCASIONAL, NOT ALWAYS) shoulder shots count as a headshot mysteriously (the majority of these cases took place while I was crouching and burst-firing).

Dunno, its most likely that the crosshair is not on the head but stray, random bullets have hit the head. If anything, there is probably something wrong with the bullet decals client side, though again, dont really know.

As for the jumping to avoid AWM fire, I must admit I do find it very aggravating to be killed by a sniper simply because I was temporarily paralyzed after jumping, but the problem to begin with, is that nobody really thought of a solution for bunny-hopping. Most people are thinking in one direction without any compensation for the other. I mean sure, having more mobility feels great and seems to make the game faster-paced, but what about the sillyness and embarassment of people hopping around with knives in their hands? Doesn't the word, "bunny-hopping" sound pretty stupid? There has been some suggestions about using the DoD stamina system, but if I recall correctly, there were numerous arguments as to why that won't work. Unfortunately I can't think of a method to counter bunny-hopping. NS had the right idea, but I suspect people managed to work-around it and hop like people with no pride once again.

There seem to be a small minority of players who dislike people jumping constantly because they think its silly or unrealistic. Why? Whenever I spawn people are always jumping up and down, who cares. The game isnt 100% realistic, thats why you can do other things you wouldnt be able to do in real life, for example have 3 people standing on top of each other - jumping around a map is nothing like as silly as that in comparison, yet both are part of the game. In the pre 1.3 days it was never an issue, bunnyhoppping certainly was as people would gain so much speed that often they were jumping at triple+ the running speed. 1.3 did remove bunnyhopping but didnt have the slowdown in jumping that you have now.



There are alot of small things in the game that people could complain about, but they are totally irrelevant. These changes that have been made after 1.3 seriously did slow the gameplay down and shifted the game in favour of camper-strike, in their heads some people have think this is fine because they have become good or played it alot in 1.5/1.6, and thus get annoyed when players whove been playing longer then them come on and say its more boring than it used to be and less skilled. What is the reason for telling us to shuttup or go away when even the very best players of the current version who would certainly know what they are talking about (seeing as most have been playing since pre 1.3) are also telling you this?

[F13ND]

First off

2. People who think army or shooting experience in real life actually counts for something in games, and go on endlessly about the realism of guns. You know the ones, they always type in a brusque manner and have an avatar that's something to do with the army. They join clans called things like [101st] or [46th Rifles], where they put ranks into their tags like *MAJ* *CPL* *GNL*.

ROFL



Secondly

Thortok it sounds to me like you have not even played a year of cs. Your one of those kids that hide around the corner in cs pubs and think that you are cool when you gay someone. Then... when someone checks the spot again and comes around the corner shooting to kill you and it happens, you whine. why would the NOT be able to get a hs on you if they are that close and with an ak... oh and



I actually prefer smarter, more intelligent, tactics-required

gameplay. I like to out-think my enemy, and be 180 degrees from

where he thinks I will be. It's always a compliment when someone

on a pub says "I find Thortok in the most unusual places"...they

check the normal camping spots and there I am, somewhere else,

shooting them while they're not even looking at me



are you actually saying that because someone can jump more that there will be no more tactics involved in cs? that just proves to me how "new'' you are to cs. Go watch some old demos and tell me there is no tactics involved. (as long as they dont include people in pubs...)



AND



Mainly, the point isn't about "aim" (besides, most CS players

never have actually shot a gun, or so I believe), the point is that

a gun is a gun, whether in the hands of a trained professional, or

in the hands of Ned, the pizza boy.



Oh, and he won't kill him "EVERY time", good 'ol law of

probability. (Or whatever the hell it's called)



Aim is almost everything. How are you going to shoot someone when you arent aiming at them? (unless the random hitboxes count it as a hs) And what do cs players have to do with shooting real guns?? I myself have shot many but i have no idea what point you are trying to make. And a gun is a gun... but if you dont know how to shoot its pretty much useless when going against a highly trained soldier... or am i wrong? Yah anyways ur good old law of probability probably wouldnt have any meaning whatsoever because in real life... unlike counter strike... mr pizza boy would only live once...



and yes btw i have shot THROUGH peoples heads and seen the bullet hit on the other side... it's fun.. believe me...



Whilst trying to grass up some cheating gits, and giving info to

UA i have ntoiced, that a lot of the changes expounded here

seem to be just a little bit like what using hax gives to the cehat

now, less recoil, dumb jumping accuracy, ridicuous fragfest pace.

It all makes sense now. All the 7337 player ARE haxing, and weve

been fooled all along! :p



Ghengis... just wow... none of those are hacks... but nt. Theres such thing as NO recoil... or at least there was. But jumping and getting a hs = no hacks. sorry bud that you cant take getting killed by someone better.



Del` wrote..

Good clans will still win games, but in the old days a good player

in a game vs a worse clan could go the whole game without

dieing.



Spoonman wrote..

Last I checked the number of rounds won in a match determines

the victor in most leagues, not the K ratio.



Last i heard killing the whole team = a round won? maybe im wrong but if you dont die at all its kinda hard to loose too. But thats just my experience.



It sounds to me like the only people who dont want this are those who play mainly in pubs and who have probably never really played in "comptetitive" cs.