CS Changes

[lopinboy]

Mr. Poophead wrote..

I think you missed the point there bub. I'm not saying they are retarded because their opinion differs from my own. I am saying they are retarded because jumping around like you are tweaking out on meth while still being able to shoot accurately is completely, utterly, and in all ways ridiculous. Go to a firing range and start jumping around and shooting and let me know if you are more likely to shoot yourself in the face or actually hit your target. You'll probably be taken away in a straightjacket or shot down by SWAT soon thereafter.



Skill? It takes a lot more skill (i.e. planning, tactics) to be able to be able to track and hit your target without being killed yourself than it doses run around like a chicken with its head cut off while being able to keep your crosshairs fixed on your target. That is the reason PodBot-style bots still aren't as good as average CS players. Don't wine about getting killed because you can't find a vantage point from which to shoot.



BTW, saying that "half the community is still split about bunny hopping" means that one half accepts it as it is now, and the other half can't agree with each other. Therefore, the majority don't care to have it back.

Well, how about when people run left and rifle strafe firing. Thats just as unrealistic as bunnyhopping. Also, as of right now, jumping makes for inaccuracy, so now bunnyhopping is only useful for dodging and getting into the window on italy, just like it should be for more competitive play.



Your skill idea just proved my point. It's a lot harder to track and kill a person when they are moving. Now however, most players have to stop dead in their tracks when firing, so it's simple to kill a person. Players should have to constantly aim, but as of right now, you just aim at one spot and fire. Wow, lots of skill there, wouldn't you say?



My last part was a bit confusing, what I meant to say is half the community likes bunnyhopping and the other half don't. This has been showed in constant polls.



Finally, this is suppose to be about the money system, not bunnyhopping and it wasn't the best idea to generalize and say the only people against it are people who support bunnyhopping. As with everything VALVe does, everyone has to wait and see how they manage to change the money system. As for me, I have a good feeling it'll get royally screwed up the first time they try it, and then we'll need another patch.

[Magzify]

Sublyme: Why are you annoyed that a professional gamer can write an article on the true problems with the game, and valve responds.. The points he made in the article were spot on, the changes made are good for the game and are whats needed to further CS if it is to become a sport. I would understand your point of view if a gamer wrote about changes he would like, that were not backed and supported immensly by the community but this is a different case. A in touch gamer who knows his stuff has pinpointed the problem with CS being an un-spectator friendly sport, valve in all their wisdom have even obviously agree'd so there is NOTHING to complain about. Most of the people in here only play pub, you can tell from some of the comments, CS is not only about pub, of course it seemed all that valve was interested in was public, finally when they listen to the actual people who are making money out of the gaming and promoting it, the allmight pub only players get sour?

[rizzuh]

The point sublyme is making is that it is dangerous precedent to change CS on the whims of an esports community. Speaking to a CS team member, he himself noted how boring many CPL matches were this time around. So, in my opinion, I don't know if we can say that the article is the only thing causing the change.

[ioCS,undertaker]

Games like CS are estimated to be electronic sports activities of the future. Every year, bigger organizations are getting done, more and more people are spectating the matches or watching demos. What does a sport need? It needs players and spectators. Competitive game play of CS were going to a point where neither players enjoy playing nor the spectators enjoy watching. So those were not the whines of a "pro-gamer". Those were the thoughts of thousands of people that are seriously interested in this game. The reason why shaguar wrote and Valve has done it is, Shaguar has a huge amount of popularity and respect over the competitive CS gaming community. So if someone like me had written that article it may not have been even published on gotfrag. People interested in it because shaguar had written it. That's not so abnormal.



While CS evolves in time, people requested lots of changes. Like returning to 1.3 style jumping, changing the scoring system or simply removing the shield. But why did Valve get interested this time but not before? Maybe this time it seem logical in some way, maybe this time they faced with a real serious pressure.



I don't get the point why you think this changes will screw the public game play. I think, there will be no difference at all for public play. But could Valve make public play better? Definetely yes! Maybe they could have changed the scoring system, make it like in DoD or flf. Giving 3 extra frags for planting the bomb or defusing it is so simple and has no effect at all. Most of the competitive gamers are the old-school players who, at some point, had seen public CS not worth playing. Cause, public play turned into sth. like team-dm in time. I personaly can feel the real CS experience only in scrims and mathes.



I think we should not divide into groups like pros and pubbers. We are all CS gamers. But in this case, there is a reality that people you call "pro"s could explain their thoughts in a more effective way. Majority of them supported each other instead of writing comments like "CS x.x sux, now i will quit" or "xxx you stupid noob get your a** outta here". So, they got what they wanted to.

[Mr. T]

I think that freezing the round timer when the bomb is planted is a good idea; even now the round ends when the bomb goes off, so what's the difference? (I remember once when the bomb was planted and the round ended before it could explode, gah)



I think that penalizing terrorists for camping is a bad idea, especially on cs_ maps. The whole idea of the game is that terrorists camp; CTs assault. I can see one CT hiding (dust skywalk?) and letting the time expire so he will get more money.

[RaptorRage]

People seem to have no problem in 1.6 running around without stopping and getting instant AK headshots, or jump crouching into an instant AWP kill...

[Magzify]

" Giving 3 extra frags for planting the bomb or defusing it is so simple and has no effect at all."



I belive it means people will actually go and plant the bomb and try to defuse in public. I dont really care about THAT change, it has made NO difference to the war side of things, only public.

[Agent 00Shoe]

[lockhart]

Sublyme wrote..

Lockhart, I never said the change wasn't needed, I just stated it sets a nasty precedent when someone can say "the game is dying" and get their way. It's akin to a child in a candy store, whining until he gets his favorite bar of chocolate. Sure, shag may have made some nice points as I said earlier, but the root of his thesis was "cs sux, it's boring and dying, gg valve".



Oh, and I am a competitive player; I hardly pub, Lockhart.

Ok. I'm sorry for assuming that you were a pubber; it's most of the CSNation community (or is that just an assumption?)

Just because there are idiots who use a lot of x's and 0's in their arguments, doesn't mean that the argument itself is wrong.

CS, as a spectator sport, was dying.

I can't say it any better than Shag: like he said, you just need to compare X3 vs NiP to this year's CPL finals to see it. Even if you don't like this change, it's one that the great majority of the competitive community does.

[Mikemike 2.0]

I'm glad to see the bomb planting update, I was waiting for it since I started playing CS. I'm surprised VALVe didn't fix it sooner. Now, about that spec_menu bug...

[Splatula]

Didn't even hear of Shaguar until this article, so I doubt Valve would change something based SOLELY on his article... especially since people have been asking for a $ change for awhile at the steampowered forums.



The bomb idea is wicked, it won't draw out matches any longer than the bomb timer, which is usually 30 to 120 secs, depending on the server you're on. I wouldn't sweat it in the least.



As for the "real CS experience," I think the only place that exists is in your head. CS is what you make of it, just like life. There will be changes, and you either grow with them, or die. The real death of CS is the sheer AGE of it. Only noobs and people who enjoy the game for its strategy/competition really play anymore. Plus the whole CTvsT thing has always been cool. When CS2 arrives, CS servers will be filled with digital tumbleweeds and a handful of players that don't like the way the new one plays. Those guys are funny, the ones who play duke3d and tell you quake is shit because duke can flush the toilet and who needs REAL 3d anyway. Ooops, sorry... some of you aren't old enough to remember that... LOL

[ioCS,undertaker]

Well i think people working at Valve are mature enough that they just don't say "hey look! Shaguar wrote an article! omg i like this guy! we have to change those settings on cs". Yes, shaguar (the CS player maybe some of you have not even heard of) posted an article on gotfrag. It was pointing some important issues not only about competitive playing but also basics of CS. (Why does the game punish cts for their objective, protecting the bombsites). More than 500 comments has been posted to this article. All them was supporting his ideas. People not only readed or commented this article with their improvements on the ideas but also they pointed those issues in various steampowered forum threads. They also sent lots of emails to valve software about this. So the reason making Valve to make changes is not the article itself, the community's support and insistence on it.



There were 4 suggestions on the article. Two of them were about changing the money system. The others are, making a pro-only mod for CS just like OSP for quake or switching to CO ruleset instead of MR. C4 timer thing was not even his idea. It was in some of the comments written for this article.



Well lets check out the news entry on csnation about that.

The news from Greg brings diminished hopes from gamers backing a movement to change the money system of Counter-Strike, some of whom were hoping would be changed as a Christmas gift from VALVe. Proposed is a more spectator-friendly alternative that gives the Counter-Terrorists more money after a round where Terrorists let the timer run out.

This is the best answer. It is a movement by the competitive CS community to make valve change those issues. It's not so important whether x or y had started it.



Do not blame Valve for llistening to the thoughts of the community. Blame them for not doing this earlier.

[WiLLtHeTHriLL-cOc]

The changes make sense... I don't care what anyone said to get Valve to act. If you plant a bomb, then it should go off unless it's defused.

[rizzuh]

RaptorRage wrote..

People seem to have no problem in 1.6 running around without stopping and getting instant AK headshots, or jump crouching into an instant AWP kill...

What game are you playing?

[Spike Spiegel]

Edited by [user="2325"] @ [time="1073041842"]

Who wants Counter-Strike realistic to the point where it isn't fun anymore? We want the Ts to be able to plant at the last moment yet we still have to shoot each other 10+ times with certain weapons to get a kill? How is that for realism?



The way the betas were set up worked fine until suddenly Counter-Strike being fun wasn't as important as Counter-Strike being "professional" or "more realistic". Making it so that you couldn't see if people were dead on the scoreboard was also just as useless: If it is such a big problem why wait roughly three years to address it? Why are they completely changing so much lately? Doesn't anyone remember Jeepathon2k when it was released in beta 7? Even with tons of bugs it was more enjoyable than getting on a dust or aztec server today.



Anyway, I hope the changes make most of the community happy.