CS Changes

[Sublyme]

Lockhart, I never said the change wasn't needed, I just stated it sets a nasty precedent when someone can say "the game is dying" and get their way. It's akin to a child in a candy store, whining until he gets his favorite bar of chocolate. Sure, shag may have made some nice points as I said earlier, but the root of his thesis was "cs sux, it's boring and dying, gg valve".



Oh, and I am a competitive player; I hardly pub, Lockhart.

[lopinboy]

])3@6][_3-Saint wrote..

Well Guess what, Valve will probably never put bunnyhopping back in so you and your half can go sit in a hole have fun

Goodjob Capt. Obvious. Everyone knows that VALVe will never go back with their decision. They could make a decision that completely kills a game, but they will never go back.

[Spedmaster]

lopinboy, remember this?





yeah, good times... good times...

[ma_cherie]

24/7 dust pub player said..

OMG NOOOOOO NOW WE CAN'T WIN BY LETTING THE T'S CAMP IT OUT!!!!

I think it's nice to see some changes, but we'll just have to see how it goes. Although I do agree that, just because a "pro" player says something should be changed it automatically changes, is wrong.

[Gpig]

Sublyme wrote..

Lockhart, I never said the change wasn't needed, I just stated it sets a nasty precedent when someone can say "the game is dying" and get their way. It's akin to a child in a candy store, whining until he gets his favorite bar of chocolate. Sure, shag may have made some nice points as I said earlier, but the root of his thesis was "cs sux, it's boring and dying, gg valve".



Oh, and I am a competitive player; I hardly pub, Lockhart.

So by your logic, everytime someone argues for or against anything in any circumstance and makes a sound enough argument to sway the people who can make the decision they're a whiner?



You seem pretty dimwitted so instead of just letting you realize what's wrong I'll try to clarify more. Do you not see how your conclusion doesn't match up at all? You say his argument was sound and made good points and that you even agreed that the changes needed to be made. How then do you jump to your conclusion? Point it out to me. He states the problem, gives examples, then gives solutions to the problem. VALVe decided that he had a point and is going to change it. So you don't want VALVe to listen to the community? Just because they don't listen about the shield and some other things doesn't mean they still can't take suggestions on how to improve the game to heart. They're not hard changes and VALVe can implement them easily.

[Sublyme]

gpig - because he backs up his reasoning on the need for changes by saying "cs is dying. cs is boring".



WE'VE HEARD THE SAME ARGUMENTS SINCE 1999 WHEN THE GAME WAS FIRST CREATED. (caps lock means my point will definitely come across, huh?) I agree with the changes, don't get me wrong, but I don't agree with the way his arguments were presented. This game isn't built to be based around eSports; rather, eSports is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the cs playing population. So if he can sway things just by saying "cs is dying" and almost making it sound like esports will as well, then a precedent has been set. Now all pro players will think they can hold this game hostage if they, too, don't get what they want out of it, and it's going to create inflated egos and we'll wind up with scoped m4's and strafe jumping all over again.

[DchozN]

happy new year!

[abel]

yea it wasn't built around eSports, but eSports do get a lot of people interested in the game indirectly. how many competitive players have gotten their friends into the game do you think? how many people start playing as a result of these large tournaments hosted around the world where people can win actual money for playing a game. its not just a few hundred too, but thousands of dollars ALONG with the possibility of travelling around the world and being sponsored by a big name such as nVidia or Intel. if it makes the game more appealing, hey why not do it? the last thing valve wants is a game that may be fun to play, but boring as hell to watch.. this is because those people who are watching are potential players or most likely players who are already getting their friends to play.



don't really think the problem is that shag used the excuse that the game was dying to get his way.. problem was valve saw that by doing what the community said, in this instance, they could profit greatly by it :P

[demonkiller]

its about time they updated something worthwhile.. and on my birthday too!

[ph33r.hell_raiser]

OPIE wrote..

I like the idea with the money how T's will be discouraged to camping because the CT's will get more money.



But I dont like the idea of the c4 timing being changed. Its going to draw out rounds alot more now and slow the pace down way more then it is now.



I think the pace of the game is great now. But now T's could plant when theres 1 second left. Might add a little drama but I dont think its needed.



But again, its a change, adapt and play.

i like the money changes aswell, but the way i see it the T's have the option to camp until maybe 30 seconds, then rush a bomb site. not as bad as camping the whole round, especially considering they will have to buy to go into the bombsite. but i still dont like the bomb timer change.

[Gpig]

Sublyme wrote..

gpig - because he backs up his reasoning on the need for changes by saying "cs is dying. cs is boring".



WE'VE HEARD THE SAME ARGUMENTS SINCE 1999 WHEN THE GAME WAS FIRST CREATED. (caps lock means my point will definitely come across, huh?) I agree with the changes, don't get me wrong, but I don't agree with the way his arguments were presented. This game isn't built to be based around eSports; rather, eSports is just a tiny, tiny fraction of the cs playing population. So if he can sway things just by saying "cs is dying" and almost making it sound like esports will as well, then a precedent has been set. Now all pro players will think they can hold this game hostage if they, too, don't get what they want out of it, and it's going to create inflated egos and we'll wind up with scoped m4's and strafe jumping all over again.

He said why CS is boring if you notice. The money system. Hi.



If you watched this CPL. Teams didn't push at all. They sat back and let themselves be money screwed 90% of the time so for 3 minutes or more you'd see nothing. Not even the interest of them pushing. Then rdw vs SK nearly every round lasted the whole 3 minutes because of SK just camping(hey, wasn't that one of his examples?). The worst match I watched by far was definitely TAU vs tec if you want to see how horrible it can be I suggest you watch that if you want to continue arguing that CS isn't getting more boring at higher levels than it used to be. With the money system the way it is, watching CPL is far more boring. It is alot slower and sucks to watch for a large portion of the match time. Some teams are worse to watch than others but at high levels it can get ridiculous with the amount of time spent with both teams not even moving.



Of course we've heard the same arguments for a while. Most of the arguments have good points against them though. However you even agree with changing the money system. With bunny hopping you can argue the game still takes skill. Faster walkspeed you can argue no matter what speed it is people won't be happy. +3 frags for bomb defusion/explosion is great for pubs and it doesn't hurt match play so a variable isn't 100% needed. However for the money system it helps bring Counter-Strike back to the speed it was just a little over a year ago in match play. People always used to say Counter-Strike was supposed to be a balance of realism and action. By changing the money system it doesn't matter much in pubs anyways so you can't argue there. By changing the money system nearly everyone you ask supports it that plays competitively. Where then, is the point that people can raise against it besides, "VALVe hasn't listened before. They're only listening to him because he's a good pro player although I support the change because I'm a hypocrite!"?



Eh, not sure how much more we can squeeze out of this argument, lol.

[Mr. Poophead]

lopinboy wrote..

GJ on stereotyping. I wish 1.3 physics were back because people who hated them were generally those who couldn't aim. Now they get free kills because everyone is stuck sitting still when shooting. Good job on nerfing the game in skillless players favors. (oh wow, that stereotyping sounds just like you). Before calling people retards, look in the mirror and compare results. Just because one person wants it one way and you want it another, doesn't mean they are retarded.



BTW, half the community is still split on the bunnyhopping.

I think you missed the point there bub. I'm not saying they are retarded because their opinion differs from my own. I am saying they are retarded because jumping around like you are tweaking out on meth while still being able to shoot accurately is completely, utterly, and in all ways ridiculous. Go to a firing range and start jumping around and shooting and let me know if you are more likely to shoot yourself in the face or actually hit your target. You'll probably be taken away in a straightjacket or shot down by SWAT soon thereafter.



Skill? It takes a lot more skill (i.e. planning, tactics) to be able to be able to track and hit your target without being killed yourself than it doses run around like a chicken with its head cut off while being able to keep your crosshairs fixed on your target. That is the reason PodBot-style bots still aren't as good as average CS players. Don't wine about getting killed because you can't find a vantage point from which to shoot.



BTW, saying that "half the community is still split about bunny hopping" means that one half accepts it as it is now, and the other half can't agree with each other. Therefore, the majority don't care to have it back.

[Sublyme]

I don't understand how I'm a hypocrite. I support the change, but not the article that brought it about.



It's two separate issues, really. By calling me a hypocrite you're falling into logical fallacies.

[t`cido]

It was a good argument, no ones denying it.

But many people have made good arguments, and presented them quite well, without valve even giving them a second thought.

You can't say the change was made because of the support he got for his article either, because no doubt there are far, far more people who support no shield, and we all know that will never happen... maybe if shag wrote an article on that too ? :P

[Pharlap]

lopinboy wrote..

Nah, the idea I have is that you can always get a SMG, ammo, and armor. However, you should have to save to buy rifles, instead of getting so much money in just one round that even if you die, you can still buy a M4. They should drop the max money down to $8000, so people with $16000 just don't always dominate the game, because they have all the money in the world. The idea is to make money harder to get overall, but not make the game all pistol rounds. Instead of letting people buy ARs instantly on the 2nd round, they should decide if they want to just save again, or buy armor and smgs.



As it stands, there is still hardly any reason to buy a shotgun or a SMG, when you can easily get an AR. ARs should be earned, and when a person gets one, they should play more carefully, instead of rushing into a room of 4 people and spraying them done. This would make the game more fun, because it would make domination of one side much harder to accomplish. Right now, there is no chance that VALVe will ever balance the weapons so that all weapons have a purpose (as of right now, everyone knows only m4, ak, awp, and mp5 are worth anything), so why not do a money system that makes it just overall harder to get the better weapons and once you lose that weapon, you have to re-earn it from the bottom up. Right now, I've lost all interest in the game when all I see is 3/4 of the players running around with M4s and you know they'll just buy another one the next round, even if they lose the current round.

wow, me fully agrees :)

a rifle should definitely be earned, since they are so dominating now.