n0kiMOD Gets VAC'd

[Flynntargart]

I have to say that I agree with Valve working on stopping cheating... hell I'm for anyone stopping cheating. But it seems to me that cheating isn't as popular a problem as it used to be. The cheats are better, and the cheaters are better, but I haven't joined a server in a while that was stuck full of them. I think that VAC is simply over-reacting. With so many rapid fire updates, five year bans, cheat logging for non-cheat sub programs. They are doing more harm than good.



As I read over the old posts (and anything in reply to VAC for that matter) it becomes clear to me that the general public as represented by CS-nation and CS-central are very much in opposition to VAC. Most people, from what I gathered, are becoming so angry with it as to put down CS. No one here wants to give up the game because VAC has made it unplayable, least of all Valve. Given the tons of money that HL and CS have made for Valve, you would think that they would be more concerned with customer service...



I for one will be e-mailing VAC regularly from this date on, and I wonder how many of you will join with me. Surely Valve doesn't take these replies with more than a grain of salt, but if enough people e-mail them daily, we can force them to see what they are doing!!!

[[GH]-Paladin]

#44 Trust me i'm not BSing you i sponsor Counter-Hack and even they'll tell you that most of the cheats out there aren't even caught by VAC so it's just really pointless.

[MikeJ]

VAC sucks thats why public servers are over run with cheaters. Oh wait they aren't. I see an obvious hacker on pubs MAYBE once a month, if that. Before VAC there were 2-3 hackers PER pub during the cheating prime of CS 1.3.

[omnirage]

Edited by [user="9748"] @ [time="1057981671"]

Originally posted by FlynnTargart

... hell I'm for anyone stopping cheating. But it seems to me that cheating isn't as popular a problem as it used to be. The cheats are better, and the cheaters are better, but I haven't joined a server in a while that was stuck full of them.

Better cheats and better cheaters is reason enough for constant updates of VAC. Giving more time for cheaters to code new cheats is not the goal, neither is false banning, but keep reading...

Originally posted by FlynnTargart

I think that VAC is simply over-reacting. With so many rapid fire updates, five year bans, cheat logging for non-cheat sub programs. They are doing more harm than good.

More harm than good? You said yourself that you haven't joined a server with cheaters in some time...I'm sure many will agree that out-weighs any problems with a few people getting banned because of a 3rd party app Valve didn't even make.

Originally posted by FlynnTargart

No one here wants to give up the game because VAC has made it unplayable, least of all Valve. Given the tons of money that HL and CS have made for Valve, you would think that they would be more concerned with customer service...

How is counter-strike unplayable, and why is it because of VAC? You should be more concerned with the use of 3rd party apps that should be expected to cause bans because it isn't an official application.

Originally posted by FlynnTargart

...you would think that they would be more concerned with customer service...

Not concerned with customer service? Name some other development teams that have dedicated themselves to clearing up cheat problems for their games. In my opinion, Valve has put customer satisfaction first here. They even attempt to fix problems with 3rd party apps after they have been discovered.



ty Valve

[[CyW]-=BigBear=-]

Totally agree with #48..



And #46 Paladin, don't turn things arround.. I think *most* cheats are detected, some might (still) work, but I think *most* are detected.. Otherwise I would spot alot more cheaters then I do atm (I'm admin @ Demon NL CS servers), there are nowhere near as many cheaters as there used to be in CS.. But still, any cheater is 1 to much.. The reason why I think Valve can't stop all cheats now is because the HL engine is so old, and not designed to be cheatproof.. Lets all pray the new HL2 source engine is..

[[GH]-Paladin]

actually 49 the reason why it's not cheat proof is because they declined to implement punkbuster, personally i think if they implemented punkbuster we wouldn't have these problems. Oh and btw just because you don't see obvious cheaters as much anymore doesn't mean that there isn't the same amount of cheaters there were 6 months ago. I think they just got smarter (looks at the ever growing list of cal-main players being caught by CAL)

[MikeJ]

ahaha punkbuster.



good one mang.

[Serious Sam]

Totally agree with #788



The only solution to real cheat free gaming is a non-byoc lan with no loading device except for a locked cd rom.



And isn't it quite the charm, that paladin uses hacks O_O

[Hawk|FaNaTiC|]

I admin on 2 of the most popular CS servers(64.156.2.140:27015 64.156.2.137:27015), 1.5 and 1.6beta. We have VAC on both of these servers. You see the thing is VAC works for like 2 days, and then new cheats come out. Then it is useless, the only people we catch are the ones who don't know what they're doing, and would probably be worse with cheats anyways.

I remember once I was watching the console when VAC updated on a map change, and 4 people were disconnected because of it.

For a good time when VAC first came out we had a very small amount of hackers, which I presume they were figuring out how to get through VAC, now that they have I have seen a steady progress in the number of cheaters caught in our servers.

All I can say is that VAC is doing something. If VAC wasn't here our servers would be over run, and I would have shot myself by now. So don't say "VAC sucks" unless you know a better way or have a better program to prevent cheats.

[Cascador]

I think that VAC is good, and it really helps to get cs rid of the cheaters, but isn't a life-time ban (face it, 5 years is a life-time ban) a bit too much. I thought they used the system like: the first time a ban for a week, second time a ban for a month, ... Wouldn't this be better, because they know there can be false positives?

[entRo]

Edited by [user="134563"] @ [time="1058000859"]

Antinous-ODY wrote..

Maybe valve wants wonid's to be private...

Or at least given out at the consent of the people using them.

You just showed everyone you don't know what you're talking about, so I'm not going to regard the rest of what you said as relevant. Try typing "status" in console while in a game, and see what happens.

omnirage wrote..

VAC stops cheats. That's it's job,

The sad thing is, that's its job, people are getting payed for it, and it's doing more harm than good. It doesn't stop the majority of cheats, and even if it does new ones come out within a day after the update. Don't lie to yourself.

and just because it ruins some little 'woohoo' fun toys, doesn't mean Valve should burn. The community made these tools, and some are good...but the fact is the community made them - not Valve.

Wait, but who made CS, Valve or the HL community?

Everyone should just cool off, play the game how it was meant to be played, and thank Valve for working day after day to provide constant cheat protection for you, the end user. What other team even tries to do this?

1. If everyone played the game how it was meant to be played, we wouldn't need anti-cheat.

2. Day after day? Doubtful, the cheat programmers work harder than VAC does.

3. The issue isn't comparison, I don't give a shit if another game has better anti-cheat than CS does because I play CS, not the other game. If you're talking about other teams for CS hacking, cheating-death catches more with less false positives, Octinium provides a next-to-foolproof method of detecting hacks, but VAC catches cheats that are months old, bans on false positives, doesn't catch new cheats for weeks/months, and even announces when it's updating to the cheaters.

Hawk|FaNaTiC| wrote..

All I can say is that VAC is doing something. If VAC wasn't here our servers would be over run, and I would have shot myself by now. So don't say "VAC sucks" unless you know a better way or have a better program to prevent cheats.

If you admin the servers, what does VAC do besides allow you to be lazier? If a hacker gets caught by VAC, they must be pretty stupid so catching them just by watching wouldn't be very hard. I'm sure you have cheaters that play on your server, don't get caught by VAC, and you don't consider them cheaters. They're the smart ones.



Oh, and to respond to the last part of your statement: Cheating-Death, or more experienced admins that know a cheater when they see one. Try not to get admins who have no idea what CAL is, they'll ban if they see a headshot.



Damn I had to edit this shit like 3 times, my quote went down syndrome, dunno if it's fixed.

[Hawk|FaNaTiC|]

wow are you calling me a bad admin without even knowing me? I don't know if you took my post the wrong way or something, because I'm a horrible writer.



You think I'm getting lazier because of VAC??? I watch people all the time, I know what hacks look like. I have tried them myself I know what they do and what to look for. want me to give you a crash course in it?? I have been an admin on THE most popular CS server for more than a year now. So don't talk about me being lazy, the server has 32 people in it non-stop.

I'm sure you have cheaters that play on your server, don't get caught by VAC, and you don't consider them cheaters. They're the smart ones.

Yes I am sure we have people on our server that hack and I have no idea, but as long as they aren't 50-1 in 10 minutes I could care less. If they fit in with the rest of the players and I can't tell, who gives a f'? i mean, if they are hacking, and they aren't #1 on the list then I could care less.

What I care about is catching the ones who go full out aim bot, auto shoot, wallhack, ESP. Those are the ones that make everyone elses gameplay horrible. I don't get emails saying "hey I think someone was hacking, I'm not sure though, you couldn't tell. I just had this hunch that someone was hacking at the time, and It was horrible. it made me want to quit cs" blah blah blah.



BUT. I don't get emails about "omg!!! theres was a guy in the server that was 82-6 in 20 minutes, it was f'ing horrible and there was no admin around. I'm gonna quit cs because people like this!!!"



So you sir are not a server admin. oh no, but you are going to sit their and try and diss me? my job as an admin isn't easy, I'm not paid to do this.



Now so this doesn't get deleted,



VAC does help in catching the hackers that are too stupid to find hacks that are VAC proof. But VAC will never replace an admins job of catching hackers.



btw I still remember when admin wasnt about catching hackers, hacks hardly existed then. All we did was kick jerks and little things. I don't think I ever perm. banned someone untill late 1.3



also, you commented about how VAC is doing nothing::: yeah new hacks are coming out, but they arent all as good. remember the respawn hack? that could be possible if it werent for VAC.and I mean the new aimbots are really pretty bad, not like they used to be.



man I felt like I just wrote a book... time for bed

[pasta_man]

I hate VAC!!! They G-banned twice before because they were testing their systems!!!!! Luckily, they gave me a brand new CD Key back..

[Disk2]

I just spent a few minutes reading all of these replies, and I have noticed one thing that most of the pro-VAC people would agree with:



"The VAC stops stupid cheaters."



Great. Stupid cheaters that use three-month-old cheats are caught.



The fact is, most cheating groups openly mock the VAC on their forums. What do they fear most? Cheating-Death. That's about all they worry about from what I can tell.



As I have said many times before, I think it's nice that Valve tried making a good anti-cheat. I was excited for a while, too. Then I started hearing about all of the false bans, how people could not get unbanned if they were falsely banned more than once and how blatant cheaters could play freely on VAC servers.



I think it's funny that people on here have said things like, "Well at least Valve is trying to stop cheats." Whether they try or not is irrelevant. Is the VAC effective and accurate? No. If someone here answers otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to call you a liar.



I'm not trying to push Cheating-Death down your throats, but I am saying it does a much better job than the VAC does. I feel perfectly safe in a C-D server.

[sniv]

pasta_man wrote..

I hate VAC!!! They G-banned twice before because they were testing their systems!!!!! Luckily, they gave me a brand new CD Key back..

does this sound weird to anyone else?