Flynntargart wrote..How can you say CS is unplayable without a bunch of "extras"? I don't play with the extras and I can play fine. If you have to use HLamp that bad just put a CD in the drive, hl will play it as music during your game. Besides, I don't think anyone will join you because VAC stops most cheats, which is better than none.
I have to say that I agree with Valve working on stopping cheating... hell I'm for anyone stopping cheating. But it seems to me that cheating isn't as popular a problem as it used to be. The cheats are better, and the cheaters are better, but I haven't joined a server in a while that was stuck full of them. I think that VAC is simply over-reacting. With so many rapid fire updates, five year bans, cheat logging for non-cheat sub programs. They are doing more harm than good.
As I read over the old posts (and anything in reply to VAC for that matter) it becomes clear to me that the general public as represented by CS-nation and CS-central are very much in opposition to VAC. Most people, from what I gathered, are becoming so angry with it as to put down CS. No one here wants to give up the game because VAC has made it unplayable, least of all Valve. Given the tons of money that HL and CS have made for Valve, you would think that they would be more concerned with customer service...
I for one will be e-mailing VAC regularly from this date on, and I wonder how many of you will join with me. Surely Valve doesn't take these replies with more than a grain of salt, but if enough people e-mail them daily, we can force them to see what they are doing!!!
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Hey people I'm from ISRAEL and there are cheaters on every 3rd server that has no admin observation-(which means no one to kick the asshole) and this Vac crap just freaks me out how the **** they get passed it and why doesn't valve do anything???Comment
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its easier to make more hacks that get by vac > finding out about a hack and detect it, thats why valve has new modules every once in a whileappended @ [time="1058025684"]
anyway, i like the idea of cheating-death its just not that popular, i wish that cal, and all the other leagues would start using itComment
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i don't use cheats on servers, i have my own server that i log into i block the outgoing port to valve so if it ever does catch it i won't get G-Banned, the onyl good anti cheat is a good admin, either this may be true most admins have the maturity of a 13 year old boyComment
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vac doesnt tell the hackers about the updates, they figure it out when they get banned. only difference is unlike us they have 1000s of CD keys to spare. We just get f*cked and banned for 5 years for listenin to 50 cent while killin peopleComment
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xlokix wrote..
CAL has a supposed 'cheat proof' method of detecting hackers, and it works, even if some in the community think it has done false bans. This is the problem with VAC: It has started banning people for 5 years, people who are NOT using a cheat, and people like Paladin (with far more sinister intentions than him), who can go onto a secure server with a simple wallhack on, are not getting banned at all.
its easier to make more hacks that get by vac > finding out about a hack and detect it, thats why valve has new modules every once in a while
anyway, i like the idea of cheating-death its just not that popular, i wish that cal, and all the other leagues would start using it
This is my point; I would not have a problem with VAC accidentally banning some people if they could be unbanned, as long as VAC was catching MOST of the cheats. VAC is not meeting either of these standards. If you do a seach in the comments for 'false positives,' I'm sure my name will show up more than a few times. I myself have been kicked by VAC when I was not cheating, not even using any kind of plugin at all, and if my CD-Key was banned for 5 years simply because I wanted to see if that was a hacker or some CAL-I player playing as "mr.happy" going 37-1, I would be infuriated, as many of you people falsely banned have been.
Let me put it this way. If you were arrested on the street selling a bag of sugar to a friend, then imprisoned for 5 years, with no timely appeal system, and right next to you there is a drug dealer selling a big bag of cocaine and the cops do not arrest him, how would you feel? This is what VAC is doing. VAC needs to get people on some kind of "false-positive" team right now to exonerate the sugar-pushers and ramp up their "anti-cheat" team to catch the people selling the real thing. There is a very small margin of error that I can tolerate when I see people still cheating while people are banned for using a stupid little wonid searcher.Comment
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Chill out.
People screeeeamed for brutally strict anti-cheats. Now that we have them, people screeeeam because they can't use their useless third-party apps. You can't have effective anti-cheat measures without partially locking down client-side modification. It just won't work.
Besides, I really hate to tell you this, but no one really cares what music you're currently listening to in real-time. Seriously. It got on my nerves in IRC, and it gets on my nerves even more in CS. It ranks up there just below people who actually PLAY the music over the comm (which, I also hate to tell those people, is utterly indecipherable anyway, given that the voice compression codec used is optimised for VOICE, God forbid).Comment
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When most servers start using C-D instead of VAC, that will get hacked more often, and we can start allover again..
And now I want to stop talking about cheats.. Cheatmakers can burn in hell for not only ruining my CS gaming experience, but for ruining my gaming experience as a whole.. I hope I will never come accross one IRL..Comment
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I got out of CS for quite a while because of the cheaters -- then valve got involved and I got back into it. I applaud them for their efforts, not necessarily for the way they go about it, but for their efforts.Comment
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Edited by [user="25310"] @ [time="1058040422"]Gnu wrote..
I didn't scream for brutally strict anti-cheats. I screamed for anti-cheats that didn't give false positives and actually banned most cheaters. The fact that VAC bans people who use things that aren't cheats and doesn't ban people who use things that are cheats is what bothers me the most. I would be fine with false positives if there was a timely system for exonerating yourself, but there isn't, plus, it's not like there are just a small amount of cheats that work, there are a LOT of cheats that circumvent VAC completely.
People screeeeamed for brutally strict anti-cheats. Now that we have them, people screeeeam because they can't use their useless third-party apps. You can't have effective anti-cheat measures without partially locking down client-side modification. It just won't work.Gnu wrote..
1. Mute button.
Besides, I really hate to tell you this, but no one really cares what music you're currently listening to in real-time. Seriously. It got on my nerves in IRC, and it gets on my nerves even more in CS. It ranks up there just below people who actually PLAY the music over the comm (which, I also hate to tell those people, is utterly indecipherable anyway, given that the voice compression codec used is optimised for VOICE, God forbid).
2. That's not the point. The point is, it is banning people for using things that are not cheats and not banning people who are using things that are cheats. Why is this so hard to understand? Has anyone ever seen Minority Report? The reason they stop using the system is because it is fallible, and it has the possibility for false-positives.
I think, in order for VAC to work, what they need to do is straight up lie to everyone, and update the VAC modules really often with little to no changes added, just enough to scare the majority of idiots away from cheating, because the ones who know what they are doing continue to cheat regardless of valve implementing new modules.Comment
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entRo wrote..
Did the HL community make VAC? No, and that's my point.
Wait, but who made CS, Valve or the HL community?
Gnu shares my opinion.Comment
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Edited by [user="11229"] @ [time="1058049379"]
Without quoting anyone I would just like to say a few things in general reply.
When I said VAC makes things unplayable for some people, I didn't mean because of HLamp specifically. But VAC has started a bit of a trend of cutting off 3rd party tools, and that could at some point, really bring the game down. And in old news replies you'll note that there are people who have said they are going to give up CS until VAC fixs its junk.
Secondly, being as VAC is the front line when it comes to war on cheating, it also makes it a bigger target for cheaters to crack. Things like PB and CD are harder to get around simply because running cheats that dont get seen by CD may be seen by PB and the other way around ( let alone other things those programs have over VAC ). When VAC comes in and stops us from using them, and inforces its tools, you only have to get around one anti-cheat, and its always the same.
Lastly I would like to say, that even if VAC was to become a more powerful anti-cheat tool. Even if it didn't have all the problems it does, a 5 year ban is really too much. Even for cheaters I think it might be over-kill. (don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting cheating) I think perhaps a 'warning / short term ban' system should be inforced with it. More than anything that would help the wrongfuly banned fix whatever went wrong with CS.
But that might just be my two cents :PComment
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If you think PB is so much better you are naive. Q3 an a good portion of games based on the engine all include PB, and all have a good amount of cheats. PB has also had more then their fair share of failed catches and false positives.VAC is ran by a few guys, and despite what you say valve does not have to support you. Their game came out, and it worked. It was released as a working product, what the community does to it is not of their concern. Why do you think so many game companies avoid programming computer games like the plague, besides being pirated out the ass the community has an attitude of you owe me everything. Why on gos earth do they owe you 2+ years of free support to stop problems spawned by the community?Comment
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Sigh.
Everyone complaining about VAC seems to want two things: An anti-cheat that catches all cheats, and an anti-cheat that doesn't get false positives. That's not going to happen, folks. If VAC did not catch programs like HLIRC, n0kimod, etc, then the cheat developers would simply have their cheat hook HL like the third party mods do and have their cheat be undetected.
There seem to be some people praising C-D here, too. The only good thing about C-D is that it doesn't ban. It gets a shitload of false positives that if it globally banned someone, nobody would be playing on C-D servers. Cheats get past C-D as well as VAC, anyway.
"Let me put it this way. If you were arrested on the street selling a bag of sugar to a friend, then imprisoned for 5 years, with no timely appeal system, and right next to you there is a drug dealer selling a big bag of cocaine and the cops do not arrest him, how would you feel? This is what VAC is doing." -Lockhart
That's a pretty shitty analogy. If I was going along with your line of thinking, then I could bail myself out of jail with $8 for a cocaine dealing charge. Nobody forces you to play on VAC servers, btw.Comment
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Regardless of what people think, VAC is by far the most successful anti cheat in the history of gaming, period. We went from cheaters in almost every server, sometimes multiple cheaters per server, to maybe an obvious hacker every month or so if that. The hardcore hackers that hide it and hide it well are not a threat at all to public players, they are more of a threat to league play which most of you people will never have to worry about it.
People good at hiding cheats and keeping their use subtle are no more dangerous then a skilled CAL player. My ratio on pubs usually hangs around 20-4 or higher and i get banned about 25% of the time I play on them. How can a non obvious hacker that gets by a watchful admin's view be any worse? Like stated above the only illegitimate threat to pub players are the obvious aimbotters/speedhackers who run around at 500MPH heading 10 people in a row.
If it's so fucking easy for any joe smoe to hack to his hearts content like it was in CS 1.3 there would actually be people doing it, and there aren't
I have a challenge for you. Spend one evening trying to find an obvious hacker on a VAC secure pub, then upload or email his demo to me. Good luck.Comment
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