CPL uses CS 1.4

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1021945922"]

JewToTheRescue wrote..

Yeah GonePostal, I don't use stealth when im playing, and I don't aim either. I just sit in a dark corner and wait for someone to walk past my crosshair. But since everyone is camping (according to you) the rounds just run out of time. gg Postal.

You have this canny ability to miss the point even though it's right in front of you and exaggerate it so much it makes you look stupid. Do you have Attention Deficit Disorder or something? Take some Ritalin or something crack baby.

[Mach5]

Let's see....although I loathe the sad shell of gaming glory which CS has become since it was molested by the bastard hand of Valve and doomed to damnation once Goose's ego was left unchecked by Cliffe's yes-manism, last I checked, camping has been a legitimate strategy since the initial creation of the game.



Hostage mission - Terrorists camp. Last I checked, in real life, terrorists don't take hostages then play a reverse-siege on the elite forces sent in to resolve the situation.



Bombing mission - Since the CTs KNOW where the bomb spot IS, the only logical task is to assume defensive positions at the bomb sites. That's called....uh, let's see.....camping?



Assassination mission - Once again, terrorist intel KNOWS where the target is heading. The only effective strategy would be to either ambush the enemy before they get moving, or take up stealthy hidden positions along possible escape routes....and once again, that's known as camping.



The problem is there are too many newbies (read - Lamers) in the community that have migrated over from deathmatch games where camping is an effective but dishonorable strategy. In CS, that isn't the case - Sometimes camping is the ONLY strategy, and with good reason - BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT REALLY IS.



You wanna deathmatch? Stop bringing the collective IQ of the CS community down and leave and go play Tribes or QIII. The world will be a better place if you do.



The real Mach5

The E-Journal

[GonePostal]

Mach5 wrote..

Let's see....although I loathe the sad shell of gaming glory which CS has become since it was molested by the bastard hand of Valve and doomed to damnation once Goose's ego was left unchecked by Cliffe's yes-manism, last I checked, camping has been a legitimate strategy since the initial creation of the game.



Hostage mission - Terrorists camp. Last I checked, in real life, terrorists don't take hostages then play a reverse-siege on the elite forces sent in to resolve the situation.



Bombing mission - Since the CTs KNOW where the bomb spot IS, the only logical task is to assume defensive positions at the bomb sites. That's called....uh, let's see.....camping?



Assassination mission - Once again, terrorist intel KNOWS where the target is heading. The only effective strategy would be to either ambush the enemy before they get moving, or take up stealthy hidden positions along possible escape routes....and once again, that's known as camping.



The problem is there are too many newbies (read - Lamers) in the community that have migrated over from deathmatch games where camping is an effective but dishonorable strategy. In CS, that isn't the case - Sometimes camping is the ONLY strategy, and with good reason - BECAUSE THAT'S HOW IT REALLY IS.



You wanna deathmatch? Stop bringing the collective IQ of the CS community down and leave and go play Tribes or QIII. The world will be a better place if you do.



The real Mach5

The E-Journal

The point is to reward the people with the most skill. People with little skill will camp to give them a leverage for their small amount of skill. CS 1.4 makes this technique very effective even though it requires little skill, and discourages other techniques that take more skill. Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's about making the game more fair and more fun. Why don't you play rainbow 6 and camp your candy ass all you want?

[Mach5]

Silly you. Skill hasn't been a factor since the netcode was changed before you teenyboppers bought this game in a store. So I understand your lack of knowledge on the subject.



The fact remains, skill can be defined in many key areas - Skill of marksmanship, skill of battle tactics, skill of seek and destroy, et al. Camping still requires the skill of marksmanship. And if camping is the best strategy for a given situation, then it is a skill of battle tactics. And IF your mission objective does NOT involve seek and destroy, camping does not violate that tenent.



You're a sad little man for thinking otherwise. Please, shut your pie hole, and listen to your wiser elders. It'd do you some good.

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1021955419"]

Mach5 wrote..

Silly you. Skill hasn't been a factor since the netcode was changed before you teenyboppers bought this game in a store. So I understand your lack of knowledge on the subject.



The fact remains, skill can be defined in many key areas - Skill of marksmanship, skill of battle tactics, skill of seek and destroy, et al. Camping still requires the skill of marksmanship. And if camping is the best strategy for a given situation, then it is a skill of battle tactics. And IF your mission objective does NOT involve seek and destroy, camping does not violate that tenent.



You're a sad little man for thinking otherwise. Please, shut your pie hole, and listen to your wiser elders. It'd do you some good.

You sir, are a midget fucker. There was more skill in 1.3 than sperm in your semen. You contradict yourself when you say,

Mach5 wrote..

Silly you. Skill hasn't been a factor since the netcode was changed

but yet you say,

Mach5 wrote..

The fact remains, skill can be defined in many key areas - Skill of marksmanship, skill of battle tactics, skill of seek and destroy, et al. Camping still requires the skill of marksmanship.

How can camping require skill if skill hasn't been a factor since the net code was changed? You sire are a clown pot.

[Mach5]

I wouldn't know 1.3. I stopped playing shortly after Goose refused to follow my input as alpha tester for Beta 7.0, and 7.0 turned out to be the bomb I'd predicted it to be. And by bomb, I mean a devastatingly destructive concoction made from the excrement of farm animals mixed with refined fossil fuels.



The first statement of mine you quoted is what is known as "hyperbole," whereby I exaggerate something to make a point. The point was that since the netcode didn't accurately report where shots were being fired and since it made latency a joke, pure luck became more important than skill.



The second part was to explain the reality, which was that skill itself is a subjective term which is often abused, and that camping in no way constituted "skill-less" play. But since your IQ is scarcely equal to the square root of your shoe size, I should have realized both would have gone over your head.



So, listen up, you hog-fornicating fucktared assjack - Do some research on me and find out who I was and what I did for this community in its heyday before you go slinging unnecessary verbiage at me. You may be surprised what you find.

[GonePostal]

Mach5 wrote..

I wouldn't know 1.3. I stopped playing shortly after Goose refused to follow my input as alpha tester for Beta 7.0, and 7.0 turned out to be the bomb I'd predicted it to be. And by bomb, I mean a devastatingly destructive concoction made from the excrement of farm animals mixed with refined fossil fuels.



The first statement of mine you quoted is what is known as "hyperbole," whereby I exaggerate something to make a point. The point was that since the netcode didn't accurately report where shots were being fired and since it made latency a joke, pure luck became more important than skill.



The second part was to explain the reality, which was that skill itself is a subjective term which is often abused, and that camping in no way constituted "skill-less" play. But since your IQ is scarcely equal to the square root of your shoe size, I should have realized both would have gone over your head.



So, listen up, you hog-fornicating fucktared assjack - Do some research on me and find out who I was and what I did for this community in its heyday before you go slinging unnecessary verbiage at me. You may be surprised what you find.

If you didn't play it, how can you compare the amount of skill in 1.4 to 1.3 dip shit? I played CS betas just like you, but unlike you, I continued to play. So I know what I'm talking about unlike you.



As for the net code not accurately reporting, that was when it was 1st introduced, everyone complained about it. Again, you left so you don't know what you're talking about. The net code got better, and it sure helped out a lot more for high pingers than the old net code. CS 1.4 net code seems a bit suspicious however.



If you see why it's important that the skill player is rewarded, can't you see the relation in 1.4? Accuracy has decreased, so no matter what, the less accurate weapons are, and the more random they are, the less skill is involved, and the more luck it is.



You should also be able to draw the conclusion that walking using stealth in any form takes more skill than camping. I never said camping was "skilless" as you put it. So using stealth should be rewarded right? Well 1.4 does the opposite. It lowers the walk speed, giving a distinct advantage to camping.



And jumping. In order to appreciated jumping, you have to be able to appreciate rushing. The fastest route is always a straight line. But a CS map is not a straight line right? Well, in order to make it more of a straight line, you jump over obstacles rather than running around them. This is a skill. It takes skill to rush. 1.4 punishes those who jump with a 50% decrease in speed. This forces players to run the same coarse, making CS less dynamic and more predictable. Although their intentions may have been good to remove bunnyhopping, there are better ways that accomplish the same thing.



This was put in baby language for you because you couldn't understand it when I said it multiple other times on this topic.

[mouth]

GonePostal wrote..

The point is to reward the people with the most skill. People with little skill will camp to give them a leverage for their small amount of skill. CS 1.4 makes this technique very effective even though it requires little skill, and discourages other techniques that take more skill. Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's about making the game more fair and more fun. Why don't you play rainbow 6 and camp your candy ass all you want?

As opposed to what? People with little intelligence BHing through a defense to give them a leverage for their ineptness at forming valid tactics?



"People with little skill camp"? Gee, i'll be sure to remember that the next time i win a 5 on 1 round by "camping" while my victims get themselves killed by constantly running around in broad daylight.



If there's ANY reason for us to believe you know what the fucking hell you're talking about, now would be the time to share it with the rest of us.

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1021958000"]

mouth wrote..



GonePostal wrote..

The point is to reward the people with the most skill. People with little skill will camp to give them a leverage for their small amount of skill. CS 1.4 makes this technique very effective even though it requires little skill, and discourages other techniques that take more skill. Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's about making the game more fair and more fun. Why don't you play rainbow 6 and camp your candy ass all you want?



As opposed to what? People with little intelligence BHing through a defense to give them a leverage for their ineptness at forming valid tactics?



"People with little skill camp"? Gee, i'll be sure to remember that the next time i win a 5 on 1 round by "camping" while my victims get themselves killed by constantly running around in broad daylight.



If there's ANY reason for us to believe you know what the fucking hell you're talking about, now would be the time to share it with the rest of us.

Let's agree on something. What takes more skill, camping or using stealth? This will prove my point. If you can't see that, I'm sorry you can't understand simple concepts.

[mouth]

The "simple concept", numbnuts, is that both are equally acceptable. Both have everything to do with pure strategy. What, are you honestly stupid enough to expect the Ts to constantly come to the CT spawn on militia? Are you so fucktarded that you expect every map to be constantly fought in the exact middle of the map? Everyone is supposed to toss away their strategic advantages like MORONS and do what, bunnyhop point-blank in a wide open field and see who can press the mouse button the fastest? That's your idea of skill?



When a "camper" kills you in CS, it's the same as someone who's using "stealth"; It's YOUR goddamned fault for dying. That's the nature of camping in CS, and it's been that way since beta fucking 1.

[JewToTheRescue]

You have this canny ability to miss the point even though it's right in front of you and exaggerate it so much it makes you look stupid. Do you have Attention Deficit Disorder or something? Take some Ritalin or something crack baby.

My exaggeration was merely to point out the idiocy of your statement. Why don't you do us ALL a favor and stop posting in the comments with your perception of what CS is. You have supplied us with plenty of info, but not a single fact to prove your point. If you wanted to have a decent conversation that would be different, but don't come in here posting about how godlike you are. Know one gives a shit.



PS: its "uncanny"

[OverkillTBP]

Yes but before CT's could win vs. T's rushing the house if they camped.



Even A lone gun man could win.



Not anymore. Not vs. crappy snipers and/or good rushers. And I used to win rushing that CT spawn point if they camped. But certain maps suck now since 1.4 came out. Italy, office, any map that requires you to jump somewhere to get into position quick enough, sucks.



And let's get one damn thing straight. Bunny Hopping was a skill "YES SKILL" Everyone had the opportunity to learn. Just because you didn't is your own damn fault.



Half the people I know that play CS have left it, and you notice more people complaining about the changes are the long time players.



I don't like 1.4 period. Everything about it is messed up. Even the player's attitudes, even in here, don't make the game fun anymore. Yeah I just got off a server where a teammate was flashing his teammates on dust on a rush. Is that fun?



Yes matches, scrims, all those are still alright to play, you're playing with your team, vs. another team. However public servers SUCK. There is no damn teamwork in public servers, and guess what people play most? Public servers. So that lone gun man shit don't work anymore. You got low pingers always having the best scores. The lag in 1.4 is horrible, and the bugs in it, wtf, has anyone been paying attention to the CS help forums? My dad's computer takes so fucking long to exit out of CS it locks up. BUT GUESS WHAT!!! It never did that with 1.3 or previous versions. And then headshots are all fucked up. You people say they're better, better what, better to get them? WTF? I've done it, and had it done on me so many times it's stupid, you say you can't run around like crazy anymore spray and pray, wrong... I've taking out and seen others take out 4+ people in a row, going full auto on the run. With any gun!



They say they're trying to make is realistic, well it never will be, so stop trying. Realism would be more like a guy sticking his arm out the corner of a wall and firing down the hallway hitting people. Or rolling along with ducking. Or one shot one kill like it should be. Like when they changed the AWP, that doesn't kill people in the foot, I still think that's a dumb fucking idea. How would you feel if you had a .50cal bullet in your foot, or no more foot? You'd be on the ground, Crying or dead. Every since valve got a hold of this game it's been going down hill. Anyone visit CS Central lately? They have statistics on the amount of people playing before and after the CS1.4 patches came out, and it has dropped by a lot.



Oh and about that hostage thing. You're right, not many people rescue hostages anymore. There is no objective anymore. Besides planting the bomb. No one likes to play as_ maps anymore. I love those maps. VIP owns you all. And yes people camp more now. Even in matches. Camping isn't very fun and guess what my best gun is the AWP, but I hardly camp with it. I loved it back in 7.0. And yes I've still nailed people close range with it no zoom, even in 1.3 or 1.4. Camping is for pussies that don't want to do anything to earn to kills. CS Central has a flash section, the very top the file is called 5 things I hate about CS, you guys should take a look at it because its hella right.



But I'll play objectively and not do that run around killing shit. Just the other day, on Italy, it was 4 vs. me I was the last one on my team, the round after pistol round, we had lost the pistol round. Anyways I had the hostages, vs. 4 people, I got jammed up on them a few times in that round, but I ran to the window, they had it covered, I ran back to their spawn, and stupid them came through the window after me, so I headed through the market and rescued the hostages and won the round. I slipped them up real good. But if I were to actually try and kill them all I would have died. But in 1.3 I could have killed them all and rescued the hostages with one hand tied behind my back.



Anyways, 1.4 sucks. I haven't done so good as I used to in 1.3. Always catching a ghey random headshot with my teeth, or the lag fucking everything up. Since when do all the guns have stopping power? I don't know about that.



And the Para is a n00b's wet dream come true.



You 1.4 supporters are n00b's or players that sucked in 1.3 or previous versions. Just because you can get more kills now don't make you a better player. 1.4 ruined what used to be skill, and now everyone gets 10 times more headshots, just doing random shit. So fuck it. I'm going to play Tribes. That's a team based game.

[-=cw=-/i/oIr]

Edited by [user="24953"] @ [time="1021987669"]

I totally agree Overkill. Noone I have met who supports 1.4 has ever had the skill to take out an entire team or atleast 5 players with some level of reliability. In cs 1.3 you could be james bond, some l33t badass terrorist leader, a swat team veteran lol even jimmy the kid...If you had enough experience you could charge multiple enemies with just a pistol....Today I just played 1.3 on aztec. I was a ct and i knew there would be a awper and a m4er over the bridge...SO then what would you do 1.4 supporters? Probably buy an m4 and try and snipe them right - maybe a get a kill b4 you get awpd...fair enough....this is what I did though:



1) bought a GLOCK - yes you heard it...threw away my usp for a so called shitty glock...

2) bought a mac10

3) charged the bridge (along the ropes so I could get away and my team could lend fire support if they were there) firing my glock single fire at both guys one shot each....that messed up their shots and allowed me to get close

4) moved to get them in a line as they panicked and reloaded

5) pulled out my mac10 and straffed 3 times at head level...



SO 1.4 supporters what was left after that of the ts? I dont even have to tell you because you guys ARE the ts that got raped there...thats why you support 1.4 because you can just spray and pray at me...no more heros just the following:



reaction time X ping X strength of defensive position = score



wont that be nice then you can THINK your better than me...good for you



overkill here are some flashes of what 1.4 is like now (in fact its worse if your against a disciplined team):



http://www.cscentral.com/fun/flash/campers_on_cobble.php

http://www.cscentral.com/fun/flash/camper-fight.php



these are basically the guys that support 1.4 as far as I have seen:



http://www.cscentral.com/fun/flash/stfun00b.php



and this is the attitude of the players:



http://www.cscentral.com/fun/flash/cover_me.php



and this is what most guys have to do to beat the top players and thats why you hate 1.4 cos it makes you a loser:



http://www.cscentral.com/fun/flash/punk.php



lol even with all the hacks most peeps cant beat the top players

mouth wrote..



GonePostal wrote..

The point is to reward the people with the most skill. People with little skill will camp to give them a leverage for their small amount of skill. CS 1.4 makes this technique very effective even though it requires little skill, and discourages other techniques that take more skill. Shouldn't it be the other way around? It's about making the game more fair and more fun. Why don't you play rainbow 6 and camp your candy ass all you want?



As opposed to what? People with little intelligence BHing through a defense to give them a leverage for their ineptness at forming valid tactics?



"People with little skill camp"? Gee, i'll be sure to remember that the next time i win a 5 on 1 round by "camping" while my victims get themselves killed by constantly running around in broad daylight.



If there's ANY reason for us to believe you know what the fucking hell you're talking about, now would be the time to share it with the rest of us.

mate you have no idea....camping works fine against a disorganised team of variable skill and little cooperation - in a skilled clan match or even a server with skilled players you will not get 1 single kill camping.....



You know an age ago I used to camp....I used to be a VERY good camper and I would get 7:1 easy...unfortuantely every time I was faced with a good player I knew I was dead....Eventually I moved on and became a very fast rusher who never stops for any enemy and always takes a position despite overwhelming odds - that is skill and its also a lot more fun...I think newbies should camp - its prt of the learning process and if I hadnt camped all that itme ago I wouldnt have learned how to retreat and hold a stronger position nor how to stay alive or indeed where the campers like to hide....often nowadays I kill campers through walls because I just instinctively know that if I was camping thats where I would be....



There are only 2 situations where camping is a tactic used by a pro:



1) team camping...yes we will see a LOT more of this very boring tactic particularily for the ts

2) one man camping in a conclealed position to cover a bomb...plant the bomb then hide and when you hear your enemies coming DONT come out - wait for them to relax an one guy to get half way through defusing...then you can come out of nowhere and win a clanmatch...that is a valid tactic but not going around every round looking for somewhere to pitch a tent...



Doesnt make camping the well ard skill your talking about....try and camp vs me man and ill get 50-0 against you...

[GonePostal]

mouth wrote..

The "simple concept", numbnuts, is that both are equally acceptable. Both have everything to do with pure strategy. What, are you honestly stupid enough to expect the Ts to constantly come to the CT spawn on militia? Are you so fucktarded that you expect every map to be constantly fought in the exact middle of the map? Everyone is supposed to toss away their strategic advantages like MORONS and do what, bunnyhop point-blank in a wide open field and see who can press the mouse button the fastest? That's your idea of skill?



When a "camper" kills you in CS, it's the same as someone who's using "stealth"; It's YOUR goddamned fault for dying. That's the nature of camping in CS, and it's been that way since beta fucking 1.

We are talking about the amount of skill it takes, not the acceptability. I don't expect people to play stupid, but there has to be more balance between camping and defending. CS after all is a game of balance. If there are 2 equally skilled teams, defenders are camping, and the attackers are trying to complete their objective, every round should not be decided by who was camping and had the best position. This is where stealth used to be very useful. You could sneak up on the enemy and surprise them. This used to balance out the difference between attacking and defending so rounds were decided by skill rather than your position.



Common fucking sense, if you lower the walk speed, you are hurting the attacking side and making the deciding factor of round position. The balance is thrown off. You are making it easier for people that camp. Thus if you camp, you don't need more skill than another person to kill them, just a better position. That's why camping and using stealth are not equal. Common sense, you have it dumb shit?

Added @ [time="1022014224"]

JewToTheRescue wrote..



You have this canny ability to miss the point even though it's right in front of you and exaggerate it so much it makes you look stupid. Do you have Attention Deficit Disorder or something? Take some Ritalin or something crack baby.



My exaggeration was merely to point out the idiocy of your statement. Why don't you do us ALL a favor and stop posting in the comments with your perception of what CS is. You have supplied us with plenty of info, but not a single fact to prove your point. If you wanted to have a decent conversation that would be different, but don't come in here posting about how godlike you are. Know one gives a shit.



PS: its "uncanny"

The idiocy of my statement? You can't seem to understand common sense even though it's right in front of you. That seems more idiotic than my statements. I have provided plenty of facts. You fail to see them because they disagree with your perception of what CS is. This is called being closed minded. I never started the flaming here. If you read, I post flame for flame. I never flame unless I am flamed. So it's more like if you want to have a decent conversation, stop flaming me. When did I post about how god like I am. Read my posts. I never said anywhere that I was "God like." Maybe you have a superiority problem that any person that disagrees with you think's he's God. No one gives a shit because they are closed minded just like you. They don't want to give a shit. If you opened up your mind, then you might "give a shit."

[JewToTheRescue]

I realize that no one here gives a shit about me. That makes one of us.