article: map-quest

[narby]

Half-Pint wrote..



narby wrote..

Maps are only biased to those teams who have a skill bias. If the T side is stronger, chances are they will win more.



``Aztec may bias the CT's, but the T's have the Ak-47''



It's just about the skill of the team



Considering you make maps for a living I'm surprise to hear you say that. Maps are biased, one only has to look at Assault, the CT have to be good players otherwise it's no contest. Aztec is a bad example as it is relatively even and for the record most of Narbys maps have been fairly even.



Skill has a lot to do with it but when I look at biased design I say "Given 2 teams of equal skill and co-ordination, who generally wins more often" Every map is biased its the nature of the design of real world maps.



Now I'm not saying bias is neccesarily bad. I really enjoy the challenge of being CT on assault or 747.

I've seen games on aztec and assault where the apparently ``easy'' team gets raped 99% of the time. Assault is an extreme example of bias, but it still relies on a skill set to win. A strong CT team and a Weak T side will give the T's a hard time regardless of the balance of the map.

Theres also a factor people often enjoy in a map which may lean towards on particular team, challenege.



People like stacked odd's sometimes (it's rare but does happen) It can be fun to play against a harder team because it really requires you to think and work as a team, obviously this isn't so true in real life but it does happen occasionally.

I'm not saying maps SHOULD be bias towards a team, map timings and tactics vary so much things are bound to get tough on one team at times but thats just part of the game.

I learnt a lot from the CPL maps, they were designed to be perfect for both teams, clan fire for example was loosely based on dust because it had such incredible balance but people still manage to out do the opposition not necessarily because the map is biased, but because they're just better.

[Drizz`]

I like dust cause of the teamplay. Thats what makes dust and other maps good. Its all about your team sticking together to win. It's alot more fun to play cs like that then to go on your own.

[realdespair]

i like the map that has a good enemy team in it

[garry]

i liek de_dust because its complicated to learn at first but once you learn all the tunnels and alley ways you can rool on it

[The Village Idiot]

garrynewman wrote..

i liek de_dust because its complicated to learn at first but once you learn all the tunnels and alley ways you can rool on it

Heh heh, spoken like a true pro, garry.



Anyways, I have to also agree with the others that said that all maps are good map (among the official maps at least), there's just bad players. I can't tell you how many awesome games I've played on de_survivor or de_torn. I love those maps. The "big shots" around here just don't take the time to actually learn how to play the maps and so they say "this map sux0rz". And when people like Rizzuh say "de_torn sux0rz!", everybody assumes that the whole community hates de_torn and that it's a complete failure. WRONG. Just the "popular" crowd around here seems to dislike it more than other maps. On the forums here, there seem to be an even amount of people who like/dislike that map and you can say that for a lot of maps here. (A lot of people dislike de_dust, OMG!!!)

de_torn, de_survivor, I love you!!

[B423]

lol i aint even played havana and chateau not once yet. strange but they seem to go thru the map cycle too quickly.

i checked out the maps myself tho. chateau seems like a blast, but havana is just way too complicated.

[David Johnston]

garrynewman wrote..

rock2 is just half a map mirrored over, like most of tfcs maps.. crap.

Not crap. Rock2 is one of my favourite TFC maps, if not my favourite. I've been with it since QWTF and it provides the most unique experience in TFC. It's an excellent map that I get engaged in like no other.



Don't forget that mirrored maps guarantee even opportunity for both sides. TFC is a VERY difficult game to map for. Getting the balance perfect is impossible if you go for unsymmetric layout. You should have seen Casbah before Valve took over and made it good.

The good maps (in my opinon) in cs are the ``realistic'' ones where they arent just set in a desert or aztec (god knows where thats meant to be set). The best maps are the ones like backalley and prodigy, where theres no one place looks the same as the other, its completely seamless.

Agree with that. I love Backalley because it's so involving and atmospheric. A unique map.

[RockSteady]

garrynewman wrote..

ARABSTREETS

This is the most sane thing I've read from you ever. I was pissed when it was taken out of the official list.

[garry]

you weirdo

[realdespair]

what do u fink about dust dave (ö(

[David Johnston]

It's ok.

[[CG]TheHitman]

B423 wrote..

lol i aint even played havana and chateau not once yet. strange but they seem to go thru the map cycle too quickly.

i checked out the maps myself tho. chateau seems like a blast, but havana is just way too complicated.

Chateau is an awesome map, with great textures, but Havana (which, surprisingly, is made by MacMan and Ido Magal also) has a horrible layout, with decent lighitng and textures; the worst thing about it though, by far, are the ramps in the map. If you look at them, they're supposed to be stairs (the texes have dirt spots where the steps should be).

[oblivion is at hand]

theweirdgingerone wrote..



Exo wrote..

Aztec is also a very good map. It's as close to perfect as I think you can get with mapping.



IMO Aztec will always favour the team that can afford ARs. It's not a SMG map in the slightest. And I always found it a little CT biased as well, but I think that's just me.



The only update I really think Prodigy would need is something to tempt the Ts into planting at the OTHER bomb site (IE non-ct spawn). It just seems that 85% of all the bomb plants on that map are at CT spawn, and the other site is only planted at when there's a handful off players left alive.

I've found that the P90 can be very effective in aztec, even more so than the carbine. The P90 can effectivly kill all the T's that end up camping in near the doors in Aztec. The 50 round clip allows you to take out many T's before they kill you. Since every second counts, the huge magazine is a must. The gun works on the T team as well.



SMG's are always effective.

[p!ge0n]

rock2 is alright, but 2fort and well are classics...2fort may be overplayed, but i can always find something new to do on it (i.e. piss off snipers as a soldier, piss off soldiers as a sniper, plant sg's in their base)....i relly think tfc is more fun than cs, but cs i good for playing with friends and for the community n' stuff.



on a cs note, aztec is a grand map, with all the snipin' you can eat.

oh, chateau also must have one of the best layouts ever put into a cs map.



on another tfc note, casbah is really weird. its nice and even wth varied sections, but its just odd i think....oh, that was the map where i learned to bounce spy grenades and roll pyro grenades :-D

[Jsunu]

I love being assasin in tfc in 2fort and knifing all the snipers :)