Fire, I feel you, very enlightening post. :).
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^ agreed :)Added @ [time="1019928045"]
But you have to understand.. people dont like intelligent arguments.. they just like yelling non senseComment
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Edited by [user="3134"] @ [time="1019928660"]
The desert eagle is easy to use. 7 rounds of death, loses little accuracy whilst jumping (same with all other pistols) but will kill a lot faster in the hands of cirtain players who used to jump with it. The point of the jump is to a) Have more chance of a headshot b) attack from an angle more difficult to fend off (ie the guy being shot has to compensate more)
Players bouncing around a server jumping about, hopping up and down constantly with single shot ak's and fastswitching AWP's looks retarded and creats a huge bias to those players who neither wish to do it, or know how/why to do it. It's simply creating an exploit so more "experianced" (and i use that term loosely) players can gain more kills.
Obviously a skilled player doesnt need to exploit the game to do well, why should you have to bounce around like a jack in the box to win? surely you have the skill as you all proclaim to be "leet" and "not a n00b" so why rely on stupid bias's to gain the advantage?
Removing hopping from cs is levelling the playing field. It's keeping things fair. You don't NEED to jump a lot in CS. It's not like they took out strafing or crouching, you can still jump once but you'll lose momentum - big deal, in 2 months noone will really care.
The number of people i saw complaining about "these bunny hopping faggots" during 1.3 was incredible. The cs chat room, in my server, in pubs even in emails to me and the rest of the cs team clearly showed people disliked this. The saying you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time applies well here. I've seen a LOT of complaint for 1.4, naturally people complin more than complimenting something. It's far easier to shout lines of abusive unsubstantiated agression than it is to reason and give a compliment.
CS has always had a horribly critical and immature community and those shouting loudest tend to be those who exploit and ruin the game for everyone else.
The end of bunnyhopping is a great thing for cs, perhaps now people can rely on their own aim rather than a bug to win.
Also, in a side note i completly agree cs is not a realism game. That is true. However, it's not straight deathmatch either, you have to strike a balance between the two - thats what makes cs fun. No one can take 15 mp5 rounds to the chest and limbs, but noone complains you can't run with your kneecaps shot off. Yet in real life you don't jump about like zebidee on prozac firing a sub machine gun.
Realism is not the issue
Consistancy is not the issue.
Balance is. Keep it fair.Comment
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Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1019929778"]narby wrote..
So what is your view on the walk speed? You guys can't defend that because it was just a stupid move. Take it from me, jumping around getting headshots is just luck, there is no skill in that. But jumping is a very important dimension of the game. If you want to keep people from jumping around like morons, just half the height that you jump each time. That will still keep people moving and won't slow down the game like halving the speed does. If you think that this will give disadvantages to certain maps like cs_italy, it can be tweaked to be more effective and maps can be redesigned. It is much better than the jump system now.
The desert eagle is easy to use. 7 rounds of death, loses little accuracy whilst jumping (same with all other pistols) but will kill a lot faster in the hands of cirtain players who used to jump with it. The point of the jump is to a) Have more chance of a headshot b) attack from an angle more difficult to fend off (ie the guy being shot has to compensate more)
Players bouncing around a server jumping about, hopping up and down constantly with single shot ak's and fastswitching AWP's looks retarded and creats a huge bias to those players who neither wish to do it, or know how/why to do it. It's simply creating an exploit so more "experianced" (and i use that term loosely) players can gain more kills.
Obviously a skilled player doesnt need to exploit the game to do well, why should you have to bounce around like a jack in the box to win? surely you have the skill as you all proclaim to be "leet" and "not a n00b" so why rely on stupid bias's to gain the advantage?
Removing hopping from cs is levelling the playing field. It's keeping things fair. You don't NEED to jump a lot in CS. It's not like they took out strafing or crouching, you can still jump once but you'll lose momentum - big deal, in 2 months noone will really care.
The number of people i saw complaining about "these bunny hopping faggots" during 1.3 was incredible. The cs chat room, in my server, in pubs even in emails to me and the rest of the cs team clearly showed people disliked this. The saying you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time applies well here. I've seen a LOT of complaint for 1.4, naturally people complin more than complimenting something. It's far easier to shout lines of abusive unsubstantiated agression than it is to reason and give a compliment.
CS has always had a horribly critical and immature community and those shouting loudest tend to be those who exploit and ruin the game for everyone else.
The end of bunnyhopping is a great thing for cs, perhaps now people can rely on their own aim rather than a bug to win.
Also, in a side note i completly agree cs is not a realism game. That is true. However, it's not straight deathmatch either, you have to strike a balance between the two - thats what makes cs fun. No one can take 15 mp5 rounds to the chest and limbs, but noone complains you can't run with your kneecaps shot off. Yet in real life you don't jump about like zebidee on prozac firing a sub machine gun.
Realism is not the issue
Consistancy is not the issue.
Balance is. Keep it fair.Comment
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i see no problemwith people jumping around.. they are easyer to kill, since almost all their bullets miss, giving you time to aim.. 1.3 was perfect, and there was no reason for all these changes..,Comment
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Edited by [user="2825"] @ [time="1019930910"]
agreed with gonepostal...narby what can u say about changing the walk speed??
valve always said that they want to add to the realism of the game, so they did something to stop the bunny jumping..fair enough
but now having slowed down the walk speed, the element of stealth is totally destroyed. i was playing yesterday and i thought some1 was behind a corner so i tried to walk so as to not make any noise...but u walk as fast as a fish now!! ur actually more likely to get killed if used walking!
now i find myself not using walk at all and it really gets on my nerves knowing tht im giving away my position to nearby enemies. its pathetic really.
i have never complained about any changes in cs, i simply adapted for the better. However this change is just STUPID. wasnt there any other way to take out silent walking for gods sake?? this is simply unforgivable, doesnt everyone think?Comment
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Agreed on the walking, Jumping around isn't the biggest factor of the game, it really wouldnt have affected MY game much.... the only reason I hopped around wasn't A) to improve my aim, or B) to make it harder for people to shoot me.. The idea was that if I got shot WHILE I was in the air, I would still move a bit until I landed.... This wasn't a bug or anything, it wasn't an exploit.. it was just part of the game... you people whining about it sound like the same group that whines about the awp... stop whining, and learn how to use it yourself... the kind of whining your accusing us of isn't NEARLY as bad as the whining you were doing... Yeah, okay.. maybe this is a flame.. but jesus, I'm getting a little frusterated here, must have been almost 1/2 a week now since I got my last fix on CS-Crack (1.4 I don't find to be nearly as addictive, I'm considering uninstalling HL / CS, and playing 1.3 again.. theres probably a few servers out there still).. Hell, I even talked to my brother today, and he completely agrees with everything I said... most of the changes were uncalled for, and should have been removed in the beta when people were complaining then.... now of COURSE a TON more people are complaining, theres a TON more people playing... everyone just needs to get their gripes to the right people... http://www.valvesoftware.com/contact.htm Call, Fax, Email.... they allready said they would change things back if it screwed up enough people's game.... well, I think it has... But PLEASE don't just say "the new jumping is gay, and VALVe sux0rz" put some thought into the argument, explain WHY its bad, and possibly give them alternatives to get around the problems they were trying to fix before.
As for this thing about it being a matter of balance.... what? balance between newbies and skilled players? removed everything the skilled players used to become better (it shouldn't just be a matter of aim and reflex.. otherwise it WOULD be just deathmatch) and everyones of equal skill.... Why exactly is this a good thing? Did we start playing CS because we were good at it then? No.. we started because it was fun, whether or not we did well or not then, it was STILL fun.. we STAYED because as we became better, it STAYED fun.... Whats the point of playing a game that every time you rise above the rest they just knock you down again.
Don't compare this to bunny-hopping (I mean the REAL bunny-hopping.. not some idea of "woah, he's jumping over and over again.. thats bad" I'm talking abouit moving 2-3x faster than you should be.. thats exploiting a bug, and is as bad as cheating. (Many don't agree, but I've seen bug exploits that you wouldn't argue with me with in other games, I just don't see any difference between these). Bunny-hopping was removed because it was a bug exploit (again, REAL bunny-hopping) this was removed for balance? balance between newbies & skilled players? (okay, getting redundant). Okay, blew my steam. ciaoComment
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@ Narby...
you still haven't answered my question, why it was necessary to have people stop (because that's what it is, in effect) and not implement a stamina system. i find changes that either encourage players to use a different style of playing or that slightly pushes them in one direction always better than using the wooden-hammer method valve used with the jumping.
on of the very first things a friend told me about cs, way back when i was a total nubi, was to have "last-used-weapon" binded somewhere close (didn'T have a wheel mouse back then), switch to pistol once before going into battle, and then, when my primary magazin is empty pull out the pistol and finish the job. that was around beta4. and i have been handling it like that since. it has become one of the major part of cs, in my eyes, something that seperates it from other games. even with a weaker weapon, you still stood a chance against an automatic rifle.
that's gone now. first of all it takes to long to switch weapons. IF you manage to pull out your gun, you can't realy dodge the enemy's bullets (no jumping) so most of the time your dead. IF you survive that, you have to duck down and shoot, since moving decreases your accuracy to a degree that's not even funny any more. well, and even the most unskilled cs player can kill someone sitting down shooting with a pistol at you, especially with the new HUGH headshotzones. oh well, run, duck, shoot, die/surive, run, duck, shoot...and so on, that's the game now. or, even better. camp, wait, shoot, camp, wait, shoot...
still haven't heard anything about the walking issue...Comment
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Wow loads of mini essays here!!!Comment
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CrazyNewbieGuy wrote..
That is an clear indication how heated this topic is.
Wow loads of mini essays here!!!Comment
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If you could jump once with no loss of momentum, whats the point in restricting jumping at all? You can still deagle jumpComment
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the walk issue THE WALK ISSUE!!! STOP IT WITH THE JUMPING coz it doesnt matter and we gotta get used to it TELL ME EXPLAIN ME YELL ME WHY THE WALK MESS-UP...............Comment
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yeah, walking. i have mentioned that a few MILLION times. oh well, i don't think there can be an honest answer. but narby..
i fail to see why decreasing the jumping accuracy of the deagle to a ridiculous level (as it happend, btw) wouldn't have stoped deagle jumping as well. why make jumping alltogether impossible?
and I'm not even gonna start on how important the deagle was for the gameplay, especially in clanmatches for the offensive team. I'm just gonna pretend that it's a good idea to remove it because i whole lot of people couldn't handle it any more. so, why the jumping solution and not the accuracy solution. we all know you can't hit while jumping with any weapon except pistoles (talking bout 1.3), and no experienced player would jump and fire his ak, i don't know where you got that from.
walking, btw.Comment
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narby wrote..
You can still deagle jump with the current system. If you're so worried about jump kills, why don't they make the accuracies totally insane while jumping instead of stopping jumping?
If you could jump once with no loss of momentum, whats the point in restricting jumping at all? You can still deagle jumpComment
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