Poll Update!

[lockhart]

Edited by [user="25310"] @ [time="1081454559"]

Can you guys make the poll options be NOT retarded? Have some level of seriousness in a poll PLEASE?



Also, people don't want bunnyhopping back, they want that dumb stutter-step removed. That isn't even the main issue; they want pro mode to be more about reducing the randomness of recoil than anything else.



I've said this time and time again: make the stutter step apply on the second consecutive jump and it's no problem. I don't want bunny hopping back, I want jumping to be sane.

appended @ [time="1081454749"]

{Sose} wrote..

I hope you can clarify what you're saying, because as I see it, you think there's a problem with one player being able to kill an expert player... In a game where the goal is to kill the other team's players...



Or you're trying to say that the game should switch to a skills/stats system that increases with use like most MMORPG's...



I don't want a pro-mode. Truth is, people in CAL and the CPL and what have you, started playing professionally because they like CS and they like to play it.



What could be really cool would be an Advanced CS Mod, where it's harder to aim, recoil is way higher, etc.. That way, after playing it until you're at the "Intermediate" level, and go and play regular CS 1.6 in a pub.. you could possibly be at an "Expert" level.



Like a sort of hardcore Counter-Strike training mod...

His point is, the game is random enough to mitigate skill. I want the game to be the best team winning every time, like every sport is. The team that plays the best wins, not the team that plays slightly worse gets a lucky 1v1 kill because the random number generator picked his enemy's bullets to miss.

[Buddah]

David Johnston wrote..

Sod the thunder and lightning, I want a rainbow.

I want a waterfall so I can camp behind it.

[sam_rca]

and take a shower in the water fall

[GeOTek]

probably one of the most untrue things ive seen people say about cs is the difference between the noob and the expert is small.wth?compared to any game,cs has more different levels of skill than any other game by far,sure randomness can happen,but that doesnt mean the game is skill-less like ut where its just strafing and timing,and you cant get much better at strafing,since everyone strafes the same speed.For instance if youve ever been in a clan that scrims,youll know this.Theres so many different levels of cs,and the difference from the first levels to last(sk) is paramount.

[ziggie216]

whats with all these recent "I want this to change". Is it just so everyone can make some easy kill? Might as well put a portable nuke launcher then.

[thor2488]

If you want to change the map by getting rid of some entities, use Botman's Stripper2. If that has ceased to work because of Steam, use ZHLT's ripent to rip the entities from the map, edit them, then stick them back in. It's recommended you rename the map to something like de_aztec_nothunder or something, so it isn't mistaken for the masterpiece itself.

[GeOTek]

"His point is, the game is random enough to mitigate skill. I want the game to be the best team winning every time, like every sport is."



quoted from comment 18 ,youve got to be kidding me?do you know anything about sports? lol

appended @ [time="1081460925"]

many sports have somewhat of a bit of randomness in it,makes it more exciting,cuz you never are SURE which way itll go.

[David Johnston]

GeOTek wrote..

many sports have somewhat of a bit of randomness in it,makes it more exciting,cuz you never are SURE which way itll go.

GeOTek is correct: It has been shown in recent studies that randomness of a sport/game is DIRECTLY related to how enjoyable it is to play and watch, particularly with relation to football (English football - 'soccer'), although it transfers to other games too.



Too random or too predictable, both reduce the enjoyment. It has to be random enough to leave the outcome open to chance, yet not random enough to hide skill.

[alpha_crusis]

David Johnston wrote..

GeOTek is correct: It has been shown in recent studies that randomness of a sport/game is DIRECTLY related to how enjoyable it is to play and watch, particularly with relation to football (English football - 'soccer'), although it transfers to other games too.

That's how Arsenal got kicked out of the Champions League by Chelsea.

[cboyce]

Boomstick wrote..

Wait, what's 4725 divided by 2?...

Well if you want to be technical according to the results its 4275. But it does not matter the end result is 2137.5, On the other hand it could be 4752 in which the results would be an even 2376. And even if 10% voted twice (thats 47.52) 2376 - 47.52 = 2328.48 ppl really voted. So as you can see the poll does'nt really matter. Cause if you take the number of ppl playing de_aztec at any given time according to http://w00t.phxx.net/ right now

Total Servers Queried: 52072 as of 4/8/2004 6:37:24 PM



Total Players Queried: 123073 as of 4/8/2004 6:37:24 PM



de_aztec 7259 13.9% 13718 11.1%



So really nobody cares as long as ppl can frag each other. I hope you have enjoyed this worthless tidbit.

[GeOTek]

thats cool,however i dont know how you got the 47.52,i guess thats 10 percent of the total,but if 10 percent voted twice,a person cant be a percent,so therefor 10 percent coulndt of voted twice.

[Mr Bond]

Boomstick wrote..

Wait, what's 4725 divided by 2?...

The percentages are rounded by the poll script, that's all. One option had to have had more votes but we'll never know which (unless rizzuh or someone looks at the raw figures). The drama!

[lockhart]

Edited by [user="25310"] @ [time="1081473447"]

GeOTek wrote..

probably one of the most untrue things ive seen people say about cs is the difference between the noob and the expert is small.wth?compared to any game,cs has more different levels of skill than any other game by far,sure randomness can happen,but that doesnt mean the game is skill-less like ut where its just strafing and timing,and you cant get much better at strafing,since everyone strafes the same speed.For instance if youve ever been in a clan that scrims,youll know this.Theres so many different levels of cs,and the difference from the first levels to last(sk) is paramount.

You're an idiot.

UT is pure skill because the guns are 100% accurate. The skill gap between the best players and the average players is incredible. A player than has been playing for a month cannot kill fatal1ty. It's literally impossible. (Hell, I don't think I could kill fatal1ty and I consider myself a very solid UT player. But I can kill fatal1ty in CS) A CS player who has been playing for a month can kill heaton because he can get LUCKY. The skill gap between the best teams and the average teams is much much smaller in CS. Is it still a big gap? Yes. But suppose we changed the guns to be perfectly accurate every time... what would happen with no random recoil? I believe it would increase the skill factor exponentially.

I don't want CS to be UT. I don't mind an element of randomness at all. But I'd prefer it to be more around 1.3 levels, where the best players were so much better than they are now.

GeOTek wrote..

"His point is, the game is random enough to mitigate skill. I want the game to be the best team winning every time, like every sport is."



quoted from comment 18 ,youve got to be kidding me?do you know anything about sports? lol



many sports have somewhat of a bit of randomness in it,makes it more exciting,cuz you never are SURE which way itll go.

I'm not talking about being sure that a certain team will win every time. I'm talking about being sure that the team that plays best will win every time. I also like the way you took my quote out of context by removing the next sentence. There's a quote button that you can use under a message that formats what you want to talk about very nicely, and ensures that you don't change the meaning of the quote.

David Johnston wrote..

GeOTek is correct: It has been shown in recent studies that randomness of a sport/game is DIRECTLY related to how enjoyable it is to play and watch, particularly with relation to football (English football - 'soccer'), although it transfers to other games too.



Too random or too predictable, both reduce the enjoyment. It has to be random enough to leave the outcome open to chance, yet not random enough to hide skill.

I think right now CS is just too random. Other sports are NOT random beyond the actual performance of the players. All the other factors are constant, or have minimal effects on the game. I'd say about 99% of the time the team that plays the best wins in EVERY sport. The 1% would be crappy officiating getting in the way of the game, or maybe wind or field condition. Show me a sport that's truly random, or even has a real, noticable level of randomness in it.



I don't know much about soccer (european football) but would you say Dave that Real Madrid is the best team in the world right now? But if Man. U played them (I don't even know if they ever play) who would win? Predictability and randomness aren't the same thing. Whichever of those two teams plays better on that day will win the game.

[entRo]

Edited by [user="134563"] @ [time="1081476371"]

lockhart wrote..

A player than has been playing for a month cannot kill fatal1ty. It's literally impossible.

Literally impossible? That would mean he had godmode. No, it's not impossible, and further, not literally impossible to kill him but I know what you mean.



CS does have a big randomness factor compared to other games. Quake, UT, T2 (yea I'm a fan), and a few other well made FPS are much more skill based. Like Lockhart said, CS used to be very skill based but VALVe decided to go with the whining idiots who like to play iceworld, disable awp, ignore the walk key, and cant grasp the concept of aiming at the head. Slowly, they've reduced the gap in skill to suit the lower end. Now it's easier for crappy players to do well. Instead of learning a game that really isnt that complicated, they are saved by randomness and luck.



While the "lucky shot" will always exist, in any game, it'd be nice to have the frequency of it reduced in CS. I'm hoping for a pro-mod.

GeOTek wrote..

probably one of the most untrue things ive seen people say about cs is the difference between the noob and the expert is small.wth?compared to any game,cs has more different levels of skill than any other game by far,

Look at how many people play the other competitive non-random FPS (UT2K4, Q3, etc.) compared to how many people play CS and you'll see why so many more skill levels exist in CS. Other games have people that actually know what they're doing, or atleast learn quickly. In all the games I've played, I've havn't seen as many morons as I have in CS. After 1.0 everything went downhill with the rush of idiots to the game, not saying everyone that started after 1.0 is an idiot but anyone who was playing competitively (in the few leagues we had) will know what I'm talking about.

[cboyce]

Did I mention I like pizza?