Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Imagine being some civilian businessman sitting there with your coffee and reading a magazine when a door burst open and bullets start flying [...]

Except that this is COD, its so scripted that the game will always play out the same way. It´ll quickly turn out into a puzzle and not immersive experience. You solve the puzzle and then the whole "agent with a parachute, on a mission" thing begins.

Honestly the whole GTA thing doesn't work. Sure you can kill civilians, but you have the option too, and its not very realistic. The people in GTA tend to be alone, stupid, etc. basically the opposite from what I've seen in the video.

Show me one person who doesnt blow up civillians in GTA and Ill show you a liar.

[The_Eliminator]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

^^^

Although i agree that every CoD has been scripted, you cant talk about things as fact when you havent even played the game yet.

[The_Eliminator]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Show me one person who doesnt blow up civillians in GTA and Ill show you a liar.

Your right everyone does, but you also have a choice whether you do or not. The principle here is the fact that these civilians are not stupid AI characters without a real sense of being like the ones in GTA. The civilians we are seeing are highly adaptive AI, helping each other, scripted or not, and you are out in the first person view with an aim to slaughter them.

Tell me, if there was a highly advanced robot with an increased and lifelike AI such as those from i.Robot, which is only scripted to provide stimulus feedback to certain environments and questions, much like a game, would you have a problem putting a gun to its head and killing it?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Your right everyone does, but you also have a choice whether you do or not. The principle here is the fact that these civilians are not stupid AI characters without a real sense of being like the ones in GTA. The civilians we are seeing are highly adaptive AI, helping each other, scripted or not, and you are out in the first person view with an aim to slaughter them.

Wrong. Remember, this is COD. That guy whos helping someone up is always going to try to help someone up COD is and always has been scripted for its specific purposes to deliver the maximum effect on the first playthrough. Whether its FPS or TPS matters little. Yes, GTA uses comic effect to make a Russian badass kill thousands of American civillians look trivial. If a comparison cannot be made, then you just fell for it.

Also, if your "principle" about them being "civillians" and not "stupid AI" is what I think it is, then its time for you to drop videogames, because the line between real and unreal has just blurred out for you, especially when youre using real life arguments to support your position on this matter.

Tell me, if there was a highly advanced robot with an increased and lifelike AI such as those from i.Robot, which is only scripted to provide stimulus feedback to certain environments and questions, much like a game, would you have a problem putting a gun to its head and killing it?

Tell me, if you shoot a robot in a game and you shoot one in real life, which one is going to have real consequences? Which one is part of entertainment and which one is really going to harm someone (money wise, you psyche wise, et cetera)?

Dont blur the line here, youre going Thompson on this subject. Its a videogame, its not going to create a new generation of terrorists. Its all about whether or not this imagery will be negative to you or not. And if it will, you can always choose not to play it.

[iQue]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

It's not the fact that you're actually shooting civilians that makes people angry, it's the way you do it. You walk slowly, calmly, simply shooting everyone in that mall because you can. Civilians are trying to save their family members, crawling on the floor trying to hide and you kill them anyway. That's pretty harsh even for a video game.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, if IW plays their cards right it could be a very important mission to set the mood for the rest of the game. It could just as easily turn out to not fit in with the story and seem very tasteless. We'll have to see.

[RangerXML]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

I think that the interview with some of the developers best sum it up when they talk about basing there game on real life events, then trying to take it a step further and then realizing that the events that they were writing started to happen and they realized that they were really getting into the mind set of terrorists. I mean what is going to get people the most is just how real that is. There was just a horrible attack in the middle east in a safe zone where a hotel was hit by missiles and then gunmen attacked.

EDIT: Kotaku is going to be doing a Podcast on this today, tune in.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

It's not the fact that you're actually shooting civilians that makes people angry, it's the way you do it. You walk slowly, calmly, simply shooting everyone in that mall because you can. Civilians are trying to save their family members, crawling on the floor trying to hide and you kill them anyway. That's pretty harsh even for a video game.

A) I dont understand why do you think that terrorists cant kill civillians while being calm and focused? You dont see them yelling "DA, BLYAT! UBIL ETU SUKU NAHHUY! NA! NA! NA! TY SVINJA AMERIKANSKAJA!". I think the whole idea that the only terrorists in the world are from the Mid-East and are always vocal and emotionally violent in what they do, is severely outdated and really smells like brainwashing.

B) Have you ever thought that they do this partially because they are ordered to? The first teaser video really set the mood up for this and you could hear how pressured the men in the elevator were. Stakes are high and this was all done for some higher purpose. Those civillians werent killed because its the terrorists wish to spill some blood, but rather done by soldiers or mercs to create a political fallout.

Either way, its a videogame and this is a method to create the mood for the next 6 hours, and from the looks of it, this methid is brilliant.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, if IW plays their cards right it could be a very important mission to set the mood for the rest of the game. It could just as easily turn out to not fit in with the story and seem very tasteless. We'll have to see.

Considering its IW and their games are way too overscripted, this will just work once. I dont see it being tasteless. GTA is tasteless. MW2 has a purpose.

[Vreki]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

In various games I have committed murder, genocide, piracy, destroyed nations and enslaved them. And that probably goes back to my first games on the Commodore 64.

Those were all games dedicated to that kind of thing, you always knew that this was a game about being The Bad Guy (TM).

But I do not like how it is casually inserted into a "standard" game.
That would be like having My Lai or Sant'Anna di Stazzema massacre as playable missions.
Or for that matter a Police game where you got to play as the Columbine losers.

Of course, if this is just a non-interactive intro like in COD4 then I am fine with it.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Someone posted on Gamefaqs that IW themselves said that this whole scene is to set the mood for the whole game and insert a level of "urgency" into the game. Seeing as its Gamefaqs, one can doubt the poster.

Also, there was an option mentioned, to skip the scene entirely.

[=)BiT(= Evant3k]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

I notice that if you choose not to shoot the civilians in the mission your fellow AI terrorist will do it for you. IMO it's personal choice to kill them IN MW2. The Airport Security and SWAT on the other hand are fair game.

Maybe one of the Co_op missions in MW2 will be to shoot as many civilians as you can in a given time limit. :P

[TaffyTuck]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

I can't see the vid...any different links?

[Kylee!]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Except that this is COD, its so scripted that the game will always play out the same way. It´ll quickly turn out into a puzzle and not immersive experience. You solve the puzzle and then the whole "agent with a parachute, on a mission" thing begins.

A puzzle? No it could just more scripted gameplay, like the rest of the game.

Show me one person who doesnt blow up civillians in GTA and Ill show you a liar.

Perhaps, but do you walk up to any of them (in 1st person) and mow them down as they beg for your mercy?

No they're just a bunch of stupid AI's that make an almost comical screeching noise. Sure CoD is scripted, but ... when you get to the bottom of it, you're still trying to justify the fact that a bunch of terrorists mowing down civilians as they attempt to crawl to safety is okay.

Sorry, maybe being an American I'm a bit more sensitive to something like this, but I know a multitude of friends and family who died on September 11th, and playing as a terrorist would not set the mood for the rest of the game, it would just make me hate the idiots who thought this was a good idea.

/myopinion

[Stev0esque]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Considering its IW and their games are way too overscripted, this will just work once. I dont see it being tasteless. GTA is tasteless. MW2 has a purpose.

Wow, Stalker has really spoiled you hasnt it :P (its kinda spoiled me too)

but anyways, this is bad because like eliminator said, how is this going to get past the OFLC? It will probably be taken out.

[Dr Random]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Perhaps, but do you walk up to any of them (in 1st person) and mow them down as they beg for your mercy?

No they're just a bunch of stupid AI's that make an almost comical screeching noise. Sure CoD is scripted, but ... when you get to the bottom of it, you're still trying to justify the fact that a bunch of terrorists mowing down civilians as they attempt to crawl to safety is okay.

Sorry, maybe being an American I'm a bit more sensitive to something like this, but I know a multitude of friends and family who died on September 11th, and playing as a terrorist would not set the mood for the rest of the game, it would just make me hate the idiots who thought this was a good idea.

/myopinion

And only victims of September the 11'th 2001 were affected by the Terrorist attacks?
America lives in a perpetual state of fear from Terrorist acts now because of it and so do many millions of other people world wide from all manners of cultures.

Christ get over yourselves.
If the terrorists were labeled as "Al'Queda" in MW:2 then by all means even I'd be pissed but they are not and so like many fictions stories this is no different and you can't seem to realise that.

If you really disliked terrorists that much in Call of Duty you wouldn't be playing OpFor in Multiplay MW:1 either infact you should be avoiding Video games all together if you cannot draw a line between reality and a video game.

As Chris_Redfield said:

Also, if your "principle" about them being "civillians" and not "stupid AI" is what I think it is, then its time for you to drop videogames, because the line between real and unreal has just blurred out for you, especially when youre using real life arguments to support your position on this matter.

He is 100% correct.

[Dangerdog]

Re: Here is How Modern Warfare 2 Will Spark Further Controversy

Well, now we know with 100% certainty that there won't be any mod tools released for the game.

Someone would make an entire campaign out of killing civilians.