Best way to (re)balance support -

[cemmyz]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

How about simply increasing the assualt rifle accuracy a bit?
Why is it that weapons must always be made less powerful? yes the mgs are good, but they arnt perfect

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The only people complaining about the support guns are the ones that never play that kit. The fact is that support was (and somewhat still is) an extremely underplayed kit. Countless times I have found myself wandering the battlefield searching for ammo. And before 1.2, I really had no interest in playing the kit. Medics get med packs, snipers get longer sight, engineers are perfect for armor - the only kit that had no bonus before 1.2 was AT (which still doesn't). I say let the support guys spray. My G36E will still take them out. And I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[JDSENT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The pkm has most definitely been un-nerfed... it should become totally useless when moving, a close range gun when crouched, and the prone should not be a million times more accurate than all the other positions like it is now. No power should taken from the gun... just some accuracy.

[PHPT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

9 times out of 10 youll only notice a support domination on Urban CQC maps..
we dont have explosives, ability to have fire fights not in prone, long range sniping ability, repair ability..
No one ask for ammo on any map besides Urban CQC maps..luckily..no one plays support on these maps anyways hehe.

Considering half of the servers out there are on Karkand, I think it's fair to say a balance problem that concerns city maps is an important one.

- Should be a time delay from going prone to having a tight crosshair. This way they can't hit Prone and waste you immediately, but have to wait a second for their sights to settle. The Support class shouldn't be a run-and-gun class, they should be forced to lie down and give support.

They already aren't a run-and-gun kit because of that. Being forced to "lie down and give support" remains a ridiculous concept, there is no such thing as "cover fire" in BF2, there never has been. The only thing you are if you are standing still is target practice for snipers, or anyone else that's standing behind a ledge or corner that you can't quite see with their sights on you.

If you want to see how awesome being immobile support fire is, grab a mounted machine gun and fire away. See if you're lucky enough to get an actual kill before a sniper bullet finds its way to your forehead.


There is no problem with support wasting people at close range, it was happening all the time pre-1.2 and not only did no one complain about it, but hardly anyone even played the kit. Why? Because it was like playing DAO anti-tank with an ammo bag instead of a missile launcher.

Raising the minimum deviation to 0.3 to even it off with other kits (which, by the way, can still get long-range shots quite easily) is all it really needs at this point. Then it'll be about as effective as other kits long-range (less so while standing or crouched, which limits your versatility when taking long shots), and powerful up close like it's always been.

[DrJambo]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The only people complaining about the support guns are the ones that never play that kit. The fact is that support was (and somewhat still is) an extremely underplayed kit.

Well I don't know where you've been playing recently, but I've seen a plethora of support players in urban city maps post-1.2, including myself! Sure the support kit is now enjoyable, sure the guns are much better than before, sure you can open a can of whoopass on the rest of the server, but are the support unlocks balanced fun? Is it fair? And by that I mean in comparison with:

a) the regular support guns?
b) the other kits, and by that I'm particularly referring to assault?

That is the question being asked here.

After all, if it is balanced, why is it we're seeing PKM only and little use of the RPK, SAW and Type 95?

The other classes - medic, spec ops, engineer, sniper and AT - are much more role-defined and distinct from each other compared to how assault and support match up. All I see now in the city maps are plenty of support players where the assault players used to be. In fact the role for support in BF2 seems to be a bit of a misnomer as the kit seems best fitted to assaulting ...

[Robske007a]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Let's just keep it this way.

- Decrease max nades to 2.
- Zoom mode delay should take at least 3 times as long with support weapons.
- PKM damage NEEDS to be decreased. 150 drop in ROF does not justify 15 points increase in damage.

I'm against everything you say, but then again that's my opinion...

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Meh, I already wrote about this. Search for "PKM" in thread titles.

[Mystiqq]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The only people complaining about the support guns are the ones that never play that kit.

Thats nonsense and you know it.

[Hidus]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I voted Other..

My suggestion would be to make the Support class less mobile/flexible, like:
- Less accuracy when crouching/standing, this will force them to go prone over distance.
- Should be a time delay from going prone to having a tight crosshair. This way they can't hit Prone and waste you immediately, but have to wait a second for their sights to settle. The Support class shouldn't be a run-and-gun class, they should be forced to lie down and give support.

EXACTLY!

The crosshairs should behave like the crosshairs for the grappling hook does in SF. They start out very wide when you are moving then "settle down" to tight crosshairs after a few seconds.

This should not only impact support tho, it should be like this for all kits. Optionally they could have a weapon weight modifier so the bigger/more unwieldy the gun, the longer it takes for the crosshairs to settle when you hit the dirt.

[eDmunDo]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Increase the recoil of the pkm and mg36

[imported_xRandoMx]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I think it is just fine. If anything, lose the grenades and gas and let assault have those, so there is a reason to play assault besides noob tube.

Most of the "fixes" I see people recommending just turn support back into an ineffective class.

you should fear a light machinegun, not bunnyhop up to the guy and plug him with impugnity.

Just for the record, I played *more* assault before the PKM was fixed than I do now. I'm copter/AT most of the time nowadays.

[PHPT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The crosshairs should behave like the crosshairs for the grappling hook does in SF. They start out very wide when you are moving then "settle down" to tight crosshairs after a few seconds.

The PKM has a 1.8 second draw time, the AK-101 has a 0.7-sec draw and most other assault rifle has 1.2. It already has a "settling" time, it's called not being able to fire AT ALL.

Increase the recoil of the pkm and mg36

The MG36 is fine, it's ineffective for sniping because of the low bullet power and the fact that its high ROF ramps inaccuracy up so fast. The PKM's recoil is fine too, try firing that thing on automatic some time, it's not very accurate on the second shot, and it's very inaccurate on the third. The only problem is single-shot firing is EXTREMELY accurate, and no amount of recoil will fix that as long as you single-shot.

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The MG36 is fine, it's ineffective for sniping because of the low bullet power and the fact that its high ROF ramps inaccuracy up so fast. The PKM's recoil is fine too, try firing that thing on automatic some time, it's not very accurate on the second shot, and it's very inaccurate on the third. The only problem is single-shot firing is EXTREMELY accurate, and no amount of recoil will fix that as long as you single-shot.

Mmm, but part of the problem is how easy someone can take a single shot, reset the crosshairs, and take another accurate single shot. Recoil introduces more aiming time in between the shots.

At this point I just want them to add in a delay between going prone and shooting, and jack up the accuracy a little so it requires burst firing to get hits (like the MG36 is now).

[PBAsydney]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

They are fecked now, I liked them perfectly well in 1.12 (I stopped playing support after 1.2, no challenge anymore, now it's Anti-Tank instead)

[PHPT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

MAt this point I just want them to add in a delay between going prone and shooting, and jack up the accuracy a little so it requires burst firing to get hits (like the MG36 is now).

I'm still not convinced that'll solve anything, nor that that's a problem worth solving. Do you complain about getting blasted by the jackhammer or DAO close range? Should they have some sort of goofy delay before they're allowed to fire?

1.12, support was like playing with the DAO, extremely effective close range at the expense of long-range capability. No one complained about support being too good, ever. In fact, people complained about support being too weak, because you were basically an AT with an ammo bag and frags instead of a missile launcher.

So they buffed the accuracy, and now everyone's complaining that the PKM is godly, which it is. Simply put, if the kit has gone from underplayed to godly from JUST an accuracy change, then the problem is the accuracy. Not only that, but gimping their close-quarters ability won't even solve that problem. And best of all, the problem is ONLY with the PKM, no one is complaining that they get wasted by a rambo support with an RPK or SAW, or even MG36. It's all PKM, because the PKM is just MUCH better at range than the other support guns, and just as good at any range in between except point-blank.

Infinite frags is no more broken than having a grenade launcher which practically guarantees a hit, the kit needs SOMETHING to set it apart, aside from the least-useful teamwork ability. Oh noes, I don't have unlimited ammo, don't make me request a supply drop!