Best way to (re)balance support -

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Talk talk talk

LMGs should be effective at all but the most extreme ranges.

[[TBF2] Antioch93]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

They overdid the Accuracy for the LMGs... actually overdid a lot...

EA cant get it right though... its either too crappy and misses or too good and can blow snipers away from like 100m+...

[Paas]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

LMGs should be effective at all but the most extreme ranges.

Ok. Scale it back so that it's effective at Medic ranges.

Since a Medic has a longer engagement range than assault most of the time (L85a1, G36E).

Yet, make it less accurate than a sniper rifle all around.

{WP}Paas

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I recommend you go to hell, I'll play how I want, with what I want

I'll be the one driving the bus.

But you're right - you can play however you want. What you cannot do is expect people to take you seriously when you demand that a kit be changed to match your own wonky, personal, not-shared-by-the-majority preference for how to play said kit, especially when such changes will inevitably reduce the kit to a 1.12 level of pointlessness and/or completely negate other kits in the game - namely Assault.

You know what Support was good for in 1.12? Vending ammo. I could do better "Support" work with almost any other gun in the game. You're cannibalizing your own cause.

Ok. Scale it back so that it's effective at Medic ranges.

Since a Medic has a longer engagement range than assault most of the time (L85a1, G36E).

Yet, make it less accurate than a sniper rifle all around.

{WP}Paas

I assumed that "extreme ranges" would be synonymous with "sniper ranges" but I'm glad you clarified before someone freaked out.

[Paas]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I'll be the one driving the bus.

You're right - you can play however you want. What you cannot do is expect people to take you seriously when you demand that a kit be changed to match your own wonky, personal, not-shared-by-the-majority preference for how to play it.

Wow. Harsh... yet a point is made.

{WP}Paas

[canadacow]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I think I should get a special unlock that is a PKM with a 10x sniper scope that is completely accurate within the first three shots and then blows the rest of the clip insanely fast and everywhere, btw it would always be osok. If people killed me and picked up my kit they would turn into a giant d!ldo and roll around for the rest of the round. imho...

[Six.]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I kinda think it's fine the way it is... boost the other weapons accuracies.

[PHPT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

You're right - you can play however you want. What you cannot do is expect people to take you seriously when you demand that a kit be changed to match your own wonky, personal, not-shared-by-the-majority preference for how to play it.

Not shared by the majority? How do you think most people tried playing support? I'd say it's a safe bet to say more people played it as a modified G3 assault than a stationary grenade-bait turret. Especially considering you could rambo with any of the other kits except sniper.

If the majority of people just wanted to camp alleyways with support, why was there a call for an accuracy buff in the first place?

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Wow. Harsh... yet a point is made.

{WP}Paas

I thought I was being relatively nice. I didn't even tell him he was wrong - just that he shouldn't expect anyone else to think he's right. :)

Not shared by the majority? How do you think most people tried playing support? I'd say it's a safe bet to say more people played it as a modified G3 assault than a stationary grenade-bait turret. Especially considering you could rambo with any of the other kits except sniper.

This doesn't make much sense. But no, I don't think people ought to be running around playing Support like Assault - that's the point of the recommendations.

And why are you so afraid of grenades? There has to be some way to silence the stationary hail of bullets that Support ought to be. I think a grenade is a fine solution. Besides, you should be moving locations every half dozen kills anyway - and that's good advice for any kit.

If the majority of people just wanted to camp alleyways with support, why was there a call for an accuracy buff in the first place?

Because the Support weapons weren't very good at doing even that. The AK-101, to name one, was always a better choice.

Look -

We're obviously not going to agree, so let's just see if DICE changes anything. I expect that they'll probably increase the minimum deviation a little, and hopefully add a delay between prone and able to fire (which they had in BFV).

[PHPT]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

This doesn't make much sense. But no, I don't think people ought to be running around playing Support like Assault - that's the point of the recommendations.

What doesn't make sense? The fact that more than one kit's good at cutting down infantry? People run around playing medics like assault. People run around playing spec ops like assault. People run around playing AT like assault sometimes, and it actually works.

So once again I pose the question, what's support supposed to do? Especially as a squad-level combat kit.

And why are you so afraid of grenades? There has to be some way to silence the stationary hail of bullets that Support ought to be. I think a grenade is a fine solution.

?

Because the Support weapons weren't very good at doing even that. An AK-101, to name one, was always a better choice.

They've always been accurate enough to land every bullet on a close-range target in a narrow alleyway.

[vbl]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

They've always been accurate enough to land every bullet on a close-range target in a narrow alleyway.

Most of the people who used the PKM in 1.12 disagree with you. So do DICE's designers.

(EDIT: Change 95% to "most" so people didn't get b1tchy about obviously hyperbolic statistics that are obviously impossible for me to have)

[shiremct]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

I think you misunderstand me. When I say medium range, I mean assualt rifle range. Long range is sniper rifle range. I think the best way to illustrate what I mean is the example of the Type 95 as it is now at 1.21. It is flexible, it is accurate, it is powerful both offensively and defensively, it is NOT a single-shot sniper rifle.

The PKM pre 1.2 was not overpowered... just ... different... in comparison to other LMGs. That would not be bad if it got proper balance treatment to reflect its individual style, but unfortunetly, it gets the same accuracy boost, only better, coupled with its higher damage. Different is fine, but only if you realize how its different and adjust accordingly...

[Krring]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

The only thing I'd like to see is that supports wouldn't be able to shoot accurately at all while standing or crouching(prone was lying down, right?). Supports fire power as it is, is just good. Is the most lethal infantry squads weapon when compared to rifles and carbines.

I, for some reason, can take out supports from short distances as easily as earlier. I don't expect to be able to kill a guy with PKM or any other MG with my medic weapon if there's 200 meters between us. I dive for cover, try to flank or put snipers to do the job, if I have one in my squad. I just don't see the point of whining about supports, unless it's about shooting too accurately while not proning.

[L3adcannon]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

Change the accuarcy of all the guns. So that even the crappiest gun has a chance to pwn unlocks n s*it long-range.

[royaljewellz]

Re: Best way to (re)balance support -

What doesn't make sense? The fact that more than one kit's good at cutting down infantry? People run around playing medics like assault. People run around playing spec ops like assault. People run around playing AT like assault sometimes, and it actually works.

what is your point? you want to play assault, so no other kit should compare? why shouldn't a medic be able to run around like assault...their basic kits carry the same weapon minus the noobtube. should a support guy only lay around in allyways? maybe you'd be happy if everybody had knives, and you had your assault weapon...

So once again I pose the question, what's support supposed to do? Especially as a squad-level combat kit.

what is any kit "supposed" to do? i mean, the ultimate goal is to cap flags right and win right? as long as there is good teamwork, the only thing i think the kits are "supposed" to do is support their team/squad.

They've always been accurate enough to land every bullet on a close-range target in a narrow alleyway.

maybe with an aimbot...the support guns really sucked before 1.2. your statement is quite wrong, and i'm absolutely sure most will agree. now they are deadly in close quarter combat as they should be. and if you fire in quick bursts, they are accurate at distance. that statement is true to every gun in bf2, and in real life. now, they shouldn't be more accurate then a sniper rifle, but as accuate and deadly as the sniper rifles are post 1.2, i don't have a problem with the support guns.

Change the accuarcy of all the guns. So that even the crappiest gun has a chance to pwn unlocks n s*it long-range.

yeah, and then what would be the point in having unlocks?