AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

[Alcorr]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

this was on the 1.20 patch...
playing wake... flying in the chinese attack chopper...

We are flying back towards south base, between the bridge and the flag and are killed by an ESSEX missle...

I thought that was a bit odd...

but ehh.. whatever

Yeah, what probably happened was the essex fired at a j-10 and the missiles missed and looped back around to hit you.

This doesn't happen very often in 1.21.

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Which is not always available on some Maps.{WP}Paas

Are there any jet maps besides Wake and Oman that don't have mobile? If I recall correctly all the others do right? Both of those have enough stinger sites placed close enough together that they can make an effective AA shield if people are actually working together. However, I wouldn't argue to hard against someone that wanted to get some mobile AA on those two either, although I would want a couple of the static sites removed from each if that was going to happen.

There are also a lot of options for completely removing the static sites and replacing them with other AA choices, I came up with a whole list of possible ideas when 1.2 came out.

[MrBenis]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Are there any jet maps besides Wake and Oman that don't have mobile? If I recall correctly all the others do right? Both of those have enough stinger sites placed close enough together that they can make an effective AA shield if people are actually working together.

That depends, on 32 man Clean Sweep the MEC get an MAA, at the airfield flag. On 64 man Clean Sweep, that MAA is missing (much to my disgust, its the only time it woulda been useful too.. theres no AA at airfield OR abandoned village thereby giving any helo-whores a massive advantage there.. no AA at the docks too)

Oman needs MAA aswell, for the number of aircraft the ratio of (useful, there are too many buildings in the way)aa to jet is low.. and plus, the walls restrict the effectiveness of an AA.. jets will come in and bomb you, and helos will circle you and theres nothing you can do.

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

No, for the love of God, nothing changed in regards to plane speed, lock range, or lock time between 1.2 and 1.21. If you had enough time to lock and fire on a plane in 1.2, you can still do it now. The only difference now is you can't take shots at completely retarded angles like you could in 1.2. For example, in 1.2 lets say you had a plane flying over you from north to south, you could be looking north and fire just as it passed over you and the missle would fly north and then pull a 180 to chase the plane that was now behind you. Now, in 1.21 you have to either fire earlier or turn with the plane so you have a straight shot at it going away. In truth, the surface to air is more effective now because it won't go after friendlies half way across the map anymore.

Here's the bigger issue, most of you want the fixed AA to be insta win against planes, and thats just not going to happen. I don't think the fixed position AA is supposed to be much more than a deterent to jets, at least not one station on its own. Fixed AA is well suited to taking out choppers and can also reliably land at least one shot against a jet which is enough to put them into hiding for a while as they repair, and sometimes you will have the opportunity to land two shots and kill them. To effectively shut down jets with the fixed AA you need to control several of the launchers, creating a large AA shield so that even if you only land one shot, your teammate in the next launcher can put in the kill shot. It's similar to AT vs tanks, a skilled AT player can take out a tank on their own, but it is even more effective with two players working together; same is true for fixed AA. If you want more effective one man plane killing get in the mobile AA.

Spoken like a true pilot.

I would like to see you test your claims on the ground against an effective pilot. Then you'll realize how bogus they really are. You got your flying tanks back, so don't be bitter over the short-lived pwnage fest called 1.2 that you had to live through.

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Spoken like a true pilot.

I would like to see you test your claims on the ground against an effective pilot. Then you'll realize how bogus they really are. You got your flying tanks back, so don't be bitter over the short-lived pwnage fest called 1.2 that you had to live through.

Spoken like a true whiner who sucks at all aspects of the game. Yes, I'm a good pilot, but guess what, being a good pilot is also exactly what makes me good at bringing down pilots when I'm on the ground. You ever hear the phrase "Know your enemy"? People who know both sides of the coin have a much better understanding of the dynamics involved than a one dimensional player who only flys or who only ground pounds. If you want to get better at bringing down planes, learn to fly. It will teach you their weaknesses and you will be able to exploit those from the ground. Same goes for pilots who want to learn to deal with AA; play AA on the ground and learn how to take advantage of their weaknesses. You can try to write me off by saying "Spoken like a pilot", but the difference between us is that when I speak, I am speaking from experience, experience from both sides of play.

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Spoken like a true whiner who sucks at all aspects of the game.

Good idea - instead of coming up with a valid claim, insult my BF2 skills. That'll make it all the more true.

As for "knowing your enemy," why not check my stats, and see that I can fly jets? Oh wait, you just want to berate well-rounded players who are opposed to jets being invincible. And I checked all of your posts. it seems as though your only interest in the game is piloting. I think it's time you went out and got a flight-sim instead of playing a game designed to have several facets other than just bombing runs.

The simple fact of the matter is it takes more damage than one AA implacement can give to take out a plane. In a perfect world, (or maybe even the real world), all of the AAs would be manned, like you said. But in-game? Please. People are trying to cap flags, fly helis, whatever. AA's are designed solely to destroy jets. Why not make them effective at doing so, and give ground troops a chance?

If you've got something constructive to say, then by all means say it. But please don't respond with a "you're just a whiner, if you don't like it leave" statement. We've seen enough of those on this forum.

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Good idea - instead of coming up with a valid claim, insult my BF2 skills. That'll make it all the more true.

You didn't make a valid claim you twit, you instead attacked my position by saying I am only a pilot. That was your only claim, and it was wrong. I'm quite proficient at taking out planes from the ground as well.

As for "knowing your enemy," why not check my stats, and see that I can fly jets? Oh wait, you just want to berate well-rounded players who are opposed to jets being invincible. And I checked all of your posts. it seems as though your only interest in the game is piloting. I think it's time you went out and got a flight-sim instead of playing a game designed to have several facets other than just bombing runs.

I did check your stats, your six hours in a plane don't impress me. You are a one dimensional Karkand noob, that's not well rounded chief. As far as "go play a flight sim", that's getting old, and it's completely retarded. I can just as easily tell you to go play a combat sim like Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six, since apparently you can't handle the jets in BF2 and your only response is to throw yourself on the floor and pound your fists on the ground in a temper tantrum. Also, thanks for being concerned with what I post about, but that's my business, not yours. There are plenty of other aspects of the game that interest me, they just don't come under the same relentless attacks from cry babies that jets do.

The simple fact of the matter is it takes more damage than one AA implacement can give to take out a plane. In a perfect world, (or maybe even the real world), all of the AAs would be manned, like you said. But in-game? Please. People are trying to cap flags, fly helis, whatever. AA's are designed solely to destroy jets. Why not make them effective at doing so, and give ground troops a chance?

This was already discussed above, apparently you missed it in your childish rush to start pointing fingers and making claims of "PlanewhorePlanewhorePlanewhore!!11!!11". Static AA is not supposed to be a insta killer against jets. Can it kill them? Yes. Is it supposed to be death to any 100% health jet that flies over it? No. Static AA is not "designed solely to destroy jets" as you put it, it is more of a deterrent to them and it gives ground troops a way to scare them off of flag points. Static AA is a direct threat to helos, not jets. Mobile AA is the designated jet killer, in the right hands it can easily go toe to toe with a jet and win.

But please don't respond with a "you're just a whiner, if you don't like it leave" statement. We've seen enough of those on this forum.

You mean like the post's that you've made attacking me?

[GSG9xSNIPER]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Well it seems like DICE made a major error while designing the game "STINGERS" have PASSIVE INFRA-RED seeeking abilities which means PLANES cannot detect a launch from from AA sites. STINGERS seek by heat and not by RADAR . Radar gives out warnings to the plane notifying it, that its being seeked by a missle (RADAR). DICE needs to fix this problem.

All the pilots in BF2 get a warning now as if the STINGER missle has radar capabilities which does NOT.

[Flares]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Here is the problem also. Everybody knows where the implacements are for AA. So pilots have a definate advantaged already. The person at the AA site doesn't know where the plane is coming from. So this is not balanced IMO.

I disagree. BF2 is a team game, if people worked as a team and manned all the available SAM sites, they're going to make life extremely difficult for any jet pilot. Unfortunately most people don't want to do a shift in an Igla/Stinger site because they lose points...
Since the release of the game, I've never had a problem hitting jets with at least one SAM, and often hit them with two. As TheGhost has already said, "know your enemy", understand how to lead targets, wait for them to drop flares, don't sit in an obvious emplacement if a jet is constantly attacking the same point, unless other people are manning the others.
DICE provided the tools already, but they failed to take into account the nature of the average twitch gamer (ie impatient and as thick as two short planks).

Well it seems like DICE made a major error while designing the game "STINGERS" have PASSIVE INFRA-RED seeeking abilities which means PLANES cannot detect a launch from from AA sites.

Some modern planes do have the ability to detect incoming heat seeking missiles and if not, they're not hard to spot if the pilot and wingman are scanning the area. Unfortunately there's another issue, the Ctrl-Mouse view system in BF2 is too clunky to be effective.

[jakswan]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

I've played a bit more now and a properly released AA from a plane is 95% effective against anything but a J10, ground AA is better (it's in a thread somewhere) but you can't just spam it out. Ground AA is deadly when used right it's not 1.12.

I see why people are not manning it as much, you can't just point at something and shoot but have to wait and lead.

I just played on Daqing two clan mates one on ground AA one in F18, every single time I got on him I had a choice get caught by ground AA or abort.

Still the proper solution to a plane is a plane though, my mate will not play any plane maps unless I'm with him. He says he does not get proper air cover from 90% of the other pilots, this is why a lot of grunts get p'd off.

If your getting battered by any air units have a look on the map and see where your pilots are and what the heck their doing.

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

You didn't make a valid claim you twit, you instead attacked my position by saying I am only a pilot. That was your only claim, and it was wrong. I'm quite proficient at taking out planes from the ground as well.

Well it seems as though you have some anger management issues. I never once made any sort of insult or attack on your character or skills other than saying you sound like someone who pilots more than anything else. But it seems as though you resent anyone who has anything but praise for you. Every single one of my posts were in response to yours, and if you think I made no valid claims, then they must be a little too complicated for you. Contructive criticism involves different phrases than "one dimensional Karkand noob" or "twit."

It appears that you will never listen to logic, rationality, or anything anyone else has to say about the AA (unless of course it's concurrent with your view), so I won't even bother any further.

p.s. Time in a plane is not the only determination of whether you can fly or not.

[GSG9xSNIPER]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

I disagree. BF2 is a team game, if people worked as a team and manned all the available SAM sites, they're going to make life extremely difficult for any jet pilot. Unfortunately most people don't want to do a shift in an Igla/Stinger site because they lose points...
Since the release of the game, I've never had a problem hitting jets with at least one SAM, and often hit them with two. As TheGhost has already said, "know your enemy", understand how to lead targets, wait for them to drop flares, don't sit in an obvious emplacement if a jet is constantly attacking the same point, unless other people are manning the others.
DICE provided the tools already, but they failed to take into account the nature of the average twitch gamer (ie impatient and as thick as two short planks).

Some modern planes do have the ability to detect incoming heat seeking missiles and if not, they're not hard to spot if the pilot and wingman are scanning the area. Unfortunately there's another issue, the Ctrl-Mouse view system in BF2 is too clunky to be effective.

Their are NO SAM SITES in BF2 just stinger sites. Planes shouldn't get any warning that a STINGER is pionted in their direction. Only SAM sites give off radar which BF2 doesn't have any.

[F-1]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

That is wrong, and you clearly haven't tested it in game. The jets don't move anywhere near that quickly. Try putting your numbers to an actual ingame test before you start spewing misinformation. I already tried it last night and posted my results.

That is the maximum speed according to the game's files. I do not think I am totaly wrong here.

also the speed of the jet with the afterburners goes more than just 10% if you consume the whole after burner's speed while flying flat.

1000mph~450m/s do you know that?

This still confirms that the numbers i provided are very close to the correct ones. Do you still belive that jets in bf2 do not go that fast?

hmmmm.... it seems that they even move faster than wat i expected.

[WarGimp]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Their are NO SAM SITES in BF2 just stinger sites. Planes shouldn't get any warning that a STINGER is pionted in their direction. Only SAM sites give off radar which BF2 doesn't have any.

SAM = Surface to Air Missile.

A dude on the ground with a shoulder launched stinger is a SAM site.

[DrJambo]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Static AA is not supposed to be a insta killer against jets. Can it kill them? Yes. Is it supposed to be death to any 100% health jet that flies over it? No. Static AA is not "designed solely to destroy jets" as you put it, it is more of a deterrent to them and it gives ground troops a way to scare them off of flag points. Static AA is a direct threat to helos, not jets. Mobile AA is the designated jet killer, in the right hands it can easily go toe to toe with a jet and win.

So, if static AA is only supposed to be a deterrant then why would anyone wish to spend their time in it so called "deterring" only? BF2 is an fps first and foremost and if you're aren't killing anything then where's the enjoyment. In effect someone's got to sacrifice enjoyment to spend their time "deterring" a pilot for the good of the team, blah blah blah. I don't think that's a plausible and satisfactory reason to be honest and I can't for the life of me see why anyone would wish to spend their freetime doing such a thing. Maybe in a clan match, maybe. Not in public servers which forms 99.9% of BF2 players playing at any one time.

Second, if mobile AA is supposed to be the jet killer then why are there so many maps without mobile AA? Gulf of Oman, Wake Island and as someone mentioned before, quite bizarrely the 64 player version of Operation Cleansweep, all have no mobile AA. If static AA are only to serve as a deterrant, then we're back to where we were with 1.12. It's no wonder Gulf of Oman has returned to the uncappable MEC baseraping that I witnessed all last night.

Unfortunately, the best and indeed only advice for those not wishing to partake in all that nonsense is to avoid those maps with impunity.