AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

The IGLA's lock delay is 0.7 sec
The range is 450m

A jet travels at about 300m/s without the afterburners

The jet moves x=300/0.7= 428m during those 0.7s

you definitly need a lot of luck to hit a jet. With the after burners it is almost uselsss with the current missiles settings.

That is wrong, and you clearly haven't tested it in game. The jets don't move anywhere near that quickly. Try putting your numbers to an actual ingame test before you start spewing misinformation. I already tried it last night and posted my results.

[Alcorr]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Yeah 300m/s isn't correct.

Im not 100% sure of the numbers but even with afterburners you don't get that fast unless you are at a high altitude coming down....

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Speed really depends on altitude. I just tested with the J-10 and cruising speed can be anywhere from just over 900 to 2000+ depending on altitude. At what I would consider "normal" game condition altitude my sustained cruising speed was about 950-970 in level flight. Turning or climbing drops this into the 800 range. Afterburners provided roughly a 10% gain in speed. Anyway, when flying level in the 950-970 range it took just over a second to cover 100 meters. Based on what I was seeing, average time to cover 300 meters is going to be about 3 seconds or slightly over. My best guess is that a speed of 1000 equates to 100m/s.

This gives AA a 6 second window, on average, in which the plane is in range, if the plane flies straight through the AA's coverage area. Most pilots will begin to turn once they hear the AA lock, so this will effect the amount of time they are in range. If they don't know where the AA lock is coming from they may even turn back into the AA's fire zone and end up increasing their exposure time.

I'll test AA lock time tomorrow, but I think it will be about 1 second, maybe 1.5 seconds.

Wow, nice post.

One slight mistake though. Theres definitely a speed limit. The only way you can reach above 1400-1500 speeds is by flying totally vertically upwards. I guess its a bug from DICEs part.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Yeah 300m/s isn't correct.

Im not 100% sure of the numbers but even with afterburners you don't get that fast unless you are at a high altitude coming down....

Thats correct and incorrect. You definitely get a speedboost while going down. But it reaches a limit. Going 90 degrees up does not have that "small" issue.

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Sounds like someone just needs to get a buddy in an AA, and fly right over them. Make it best-case scenario for the AA guy. If they can barely get a lock with a shot off, then *sigh* planes are back to being their old selves. We can talk about theoretical situations, but those hardly apply to in-game scenarios.

Personally, I played last night on a Wake Island map and couldn't finish because the planes were so overpowered. I really hope that they were just good pilots and the AA isn't too weak now...

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

So we are effectively back to 1.12 as far as S2A is concerned on a plane, sigh.

No, for the love of God, nothing changed in regards to plane speed, lock range, or lock time between 1.2 and 1.21. If you had enough time to lock and fire on a plane in 1.2, you can still do it now. The only difference now is you can't take shots at completely retarded angles like you could in 1.2. For example, in 1.2 lets say you had a plane flying over you from north to south, you could be looking north and fire just as it passed over you and the missle would fly north and then pull a 180 to chase the plane that was now behind you. Now, in 1.21 you have to either fire earlier or turn with the plane so you have a straight shot at it going away. In truth, the surface to air is more effective now because it won't go after friendlies half way across the map anymore.

Here's the bigger issue, most of you want the fixed AA to be insta win against planes, and thats just not going to happen. I don't think the fixed position AA is supposed to be much more than a deterent to jets, at least not one station on its own. Fixed AA is well suited to taking out choppers and can also reliably land at least one shot against a jet which is enough to put them into hiding for a while as they repair, and sometimes you will have the opportunity to land two shots and kill them. To effectively shut down jets with the fixed AA you need to control several of the launchers, creating a large AA shield so that even if you only land one shot, your teammate in the next launcher can put in the kill shot. It's similar to AT vs tanks, a skilled AT player can take out a tank on their own, but it is even more effective with two players working together; same is true for fixed AA. If you want more effective one man plane killing get in the mobile AA.

[Bastian]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

********.

The SR-71 only goes Mach 3.2 (2,000mph). And I don't think there are any fighter aircraft that go faster than Mach 1.7 or so.

Well, the F-15 goes Mach 2.25 while the lowly F-4 (entered service 1960) goes 2.23. F-14 (Tom Cruise stuff) is similar to F-15 (Mach 2.3).

According to the dis-information superhighway, the J-10 goes Mach 2+ at
optimal altitude and 1.2 at sea level.

[jakswan]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

No, for the love of God, nothing changed in regards to plane speed, lock range, or lock time between 1.2 and 1.21. If you had enough time to lock and fire on a plane in 1.2, you can still do it now. The only difference now is you can't take shots at completely retarded angles like you could in 1.2. For example, in 1.2 lets say you had a plane flying over you from north to south, you could be looking north and fire just as it passed over you and the missle would fly north and then pull a 180 to chase the plane that was now behind you. Now, in 1.21 you have to either fire earlier or turn with the plane so you have a straight shot at it going away. In truth, the surface to air is more effective now because it won't go after friendlies half way across the map anymore.

Here's the bigger issue, most of you want the fixed AA to be insta win against planes, and thats just not going to happen. I don't think the fixed position AA is supposed to be much more than a deterent to jets, at least not one station on its own. Fixed AA is well suited to taking out choppers and can also reliably land at least one shot against a jet which is enough to put them into hiding for a while as they repair, and sometimes you will have the opportunity to land two shots and kill them. To effectively shut down jets with the fixed AA you need to control several of the launchers, creating a large AA shield so that even if you only land one shot, your teammate in the next launcher can put in the kill shot. It's similar to AT vs tanks, a skilled AT player can take out a tank on their own, but it is even more effective with two players working together; same is true for fixed AA. If you want more effective one man plane killing get in the mobile AA.

I don't think you see where I'm coming from, in 1.2 I would be very nervous about flying over a potentially manned AA site, a) it would likely be manned b) it was deadly.

Now in 1.21 the perception is that ground AA is not effective so it's not being manned. If we are back to 1.12 then choppers have no cover at all, the J10 imbalance gets worse as you can't use the ground AA as a retreat.

It had the added effect that if your team took a critical AA site it would make your job a lot easier, just added a lot to the game.

I'm not saying change it back or anything it's too early for that, it's just an early impression from the few rounds I've played.

I'm not looking to make myself safer or my points or if it takes skill to have an instagib weapon, just make the game better.

[TheGhost]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

a) it would likely be manned b) it was deadly.

Ok, I think I misunderstood where you were coming from in your first post, it sounded more like you were part of the legion of whiners that want to be able to knock planes out of the sky with nothing more than a stern glare. But anyway as far as your points:

A) It still should be manned, if people are too stupid to use it... ummm... well... this game has already become much too idiot friendly, there's really nothing more that can or should be done.

B) It IS deadly.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Here's the bigger issue, most of you want the fixed AA to be insta win against planes, and thats just not going to happen. I don't think the fixed position AA is supposed to be much more than a deterent to jets, at least not one station on its own. Fixed AA is well suited to taking out choppers and can also reliably land at least one shot against a jet which is enough to put them into hiding for a while as they repair, and sometimes you will have the opportunity to land two shots and kill them. To effectively shut down jets with the fixed AA you need to control several of the launchers, creating a large AA shield so that even if you only land one shot, your teammate in the next launcher can put in the kill shot. It's similar to AT vs tanks, a skilled AT player can take out a tank on their own, but it is even more effective with two players working together; same is true for fixed AA. If you want more effective one man plane killing get in the mobile AA.

QTF

Also note, Ive seen and noticed that you cant plant 2 missiles into a jet if you shoot on lock-on. The first missile hit creates a somewhat strange "flare effect", that wont allow the second missile to hit. So a gap betweenshots is advised.

[imported_xRandoMx]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

I find myself more worried about the stream of slugs coming from the jet from beyond lock range. Its like, "hide somewhere nearby, listen for jet, jump in site once he is too close to retarget on you, pray you get lock and fire before he hits afterburners".

[Paas]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

If you want more effective one man plane killing get in the mobile AA.

Which is not always available on some Maps.

Although, I do agree, Static A.A. shoud in no way be a direct competition for Jets. Mobile should. Static A.A. is essentially the "Shoulder Fired" Anti-Air I asked for in numerous post.

Only it would have to be nerfed to an extreme degree so that it's effective against Jet's while not being entirely overwhelming. Especially is Dice/EA was to match my plan of adding mobile Anti-Air for every Jet on the map.

4 Jets = 4 Mobile Anti-Air. Static A.A. gets removed. Anti-Tank kit gets the options for Stingers that have an effective locking range of 200m, and do about 15% damage to a helo and a Jet. They should be tuned to be most effective when a Jet is Inbound and Outbound from a dive bombing run. Currently, Jets really don't have anything to fear on the ground during a Dive Bombing run if they are smart about their approach.

Being of a tactical mind should allow a "skilled" pilot a better chance at their assault. It shouldn't allow them a feeling of comfort though. There should always been a since of danger for a Jet pilot in relation to other units in the game besides Jets. Much like the Tank has about 80-Billion (Joke) threats going for it.

{WP}Paas

[Alcorr]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Thats correct and incorrect. You definitely get a speedboost while going down. But it reaches a limit. Going 90 degrees up does not have that "small" issue.

I didn't say that it was unlimited. I just said you can get a speed boost going down...

4 Jets = 4 Mobile Anti-Air. Static A.A. gets removed. Anti-Tank kit gets the options for Stingers that have an effective locking range of 200m, and do about 15% damage to a helo and a Jet. They should be tuned to be most effective when a Jet is Inbound and Outbound from a dive bombing run. Currently, Jets really don't have anything to fear on the ground during a Dive Bombing run if they are smart about their approach.

Good idea.

However, with the mobile AA, there would be balance issues.

Take wake for example.

Both sides get two mobile AA plus what they have now. (To get US AA to shore they can modify it so that it can swim in water I guess).

However, there are two big problems.

One is that as soon as US captures flags you have 2 jets 1 chopper, 2 tanks, and two Mobile AA attack that one site while all the ground support the US has is (like I said) the two mobile AA that swam in.

USMC would be massacred....Wake would be even worse than it is now.

On the flipside, if US captures the airfield, they would have FOUR AA and then whatever else...it would be very difficult to recapture.

[GSG9xSNIPER]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

Anybody get an average for AA LOCK yet(in game)?
Here is the problem also. Everybody knows where the implacements are for AA. So pilots have a definate advantaged already. The person at the AA site doesn't know where the plane is coming from. So this is not balanced IMO. The only way you can balance this is by having a CLASS that is ANTI- AIR troops that carry STINGERS. Just my opinion whatcha think. And NO everybody won't be ANTI-AIR because the rifle would be like engineer class.

[Snypynfool]

Re: AA LOCK TIMING vs JET TRAVEL

this was on the 1.20 patch...
playing wake... flying in the chinese attack chopper...

We are flying back towards south base, between the bridge and the flag and are killed by an ESSEX missle...

I thought that was a bit odd...

but ehh.. whatever