Info about AA in 1.21

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Bottom line is the AA is better in 1.21, but it still has a long way to go till it could be considered perfect.

Air superiority is something that was effectively broken with the 1,2 patch, but up until that point it was a very important dynamic and something all pilots should've been striving to achieve through superior dogfighting ability.

I understand DICE wants the planes to be "different", but when something as important as a teams air superiority hinges on a variable as simple (maxturnspeed=X) being higher in one plane than another (rather than pilot skill), then we've got issues. They need to balance all airplanes with exact flight profiles when it comes to turning and whatnot. Then give the J-10 for example more afterburner fuel, while the F-35B has double the cannon ammo, and the other planes have an extra 2 bars of armor, or something. But give them all the exact same handling, that will solve all of the balance issues between the various planes.

[bjack]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Planewhore, what a balanced and even-handed post that was... bravo.

Perhaps its best for the game. Usually carbon copy stuff is so boring and bland to me though.

BTW I just took a .10 chunk out of my plane K/D ratio in the course of 1 hour tonight BLEH!!!!!

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Then give the J-10 for example more afterburner fuel, while the F-35B has double the cannon ammo, and the other planes have an extra 2 bars of armor, or something. But give them all the exact same handling, that will solve all of the balance issues between the various planes.

I disagree with that. I already posted a number of ideas how to balance F35B against J-10 while keeping it even with the MiG.

Dumbing them all down to one level will take away the intelligent approach to maneuvering each plane and keeps pilots doing the same stupid mistake- fly all planes as if they were the same.

[WWW.CHUTE.NL]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

nice 1

[DrJambo]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

The J-10 is a horribly unbalanced plane compared to the rest and this has only been exacerbated by the new changes to A2A and AA in 1.21. Even though dogfighting, etc was poorer in 1.20, at least one could take down a J-10. Having equally skilled pilots in the J-10 and any other plane will always result in a win for the J-10.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

The J-10 is a horribly unbalanced plane compared to the rest and this has only been exacerbated by the new changes to A2A and AA in 1.21. Even though dogfighting, etc was poorer in 1.20, at least one could take down a J-10. Having equally skilled pilots in the J-10 and any other plane will always result in a win for the J-10.

This is nothing new Jambo, the J-10 has always been this way, and was really no worse in 1.2. As long as the J-10 had half a brain in 1.2 he'd never get shoot down by any other plane. Discounting rogue missiles, I was never shot down during 1.2 while in a J-10 by another plane, and I'd guesstimate roughly 95% of the time an F-35B/F-18 locked on to me I'd be able to break the lock before they could even fire missiles with a solid lock, which left the other 5% easily delt with by flaring, at which point I'd out turn them every single time and kill them with ease. Even in 1.12 it was still a very big advantage, but far from being the combat winner it is now.

I'm glad more people are paying attention to the J-10 issue now though, because I've been talking about it for a long time and nobody seemed to be paying any attention. All I want is evenly balanced planes with exact handling to give all pilots a fair chance to win a dogfight, but until then I'll continue to select China when the option presents itself. Nothing is appealing to me about getting smoked by a newbie simply because he has a better plane.

People don't understand the "ripple" effect a balancing of the planes would have. For example on maps that almost always favor of China such as Dalian Plant and Wake 2007, the U.S. side planes would be able to defend themselves versus the J-10s which would stop the boat/helicopter massacre that often times happens, and give the U.S. team a fighting chance.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

As much as I believe in "equal terms to make skills matter 100%". I am also a strong believer in variety, and I believe that if you THINK, you can WIN. So if one plane has an advantage over the other in one area, and has a disadvantage in the other, its all good for me. The problem with J-10 is that its ONLY disadvantage is lower max afterburner speed, which is only lower by 100 KPH, and it has 3 extra seconds of AB span to make up for it. I see what you mean by balance, but dumbing all of them down to one level is madness.

[Piddy]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

I've just had my first taste of the planes in 1.21 and yeah, the J-10 has a very easy advantage, I went 25-1 and I'm not quite the seasoned expert either because the 1 was me hitting a tower.

The ground AA to planes worked well, they had no problem locking and hitting me when venturing too close.

The missiles still have no problem hitting friendlies either!

[jakswan]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Well so far it seems like a decent compromise, have to wait till much later to try it out. The last few days I've been having huge probs with teamkills not so much me tk but my teamates, I know they don't mean it, last night I couldn't shake a MIG so I pulled him over to the carrier thankful that the Essex was manned only to see my self go down. I died five times in that round, four tk's and once by ground AA/MIG, followed the Bomber into their base, with a MIG behind me and manned AA, not a good plan

I really can't see Dice getting the resources to do much more to the game, all their resources will be BF2142 in the next month, so I think we'd only see a minor tweak. The J10 is a big issue, a good team can help on Dalian if the ground AA is still deadly but on Wake against a good J10 pilot it's total carnage, as that vid that PW did showed.

I'd much prefer an improvement to the other planes rather than a downgrade to the J10, I really enjoy flying it.

[jakswan]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Has anyone got any more thoughts on this new AA, cos it's seems ok to me, I fired off a few (although my crappy joystick Logitech Extreme 3d pro has decided rudder right is not happening) and was surprised at the hit rate. Had to time it a bit more so the other plane was flying directly away from you, but it's not 1.12.

Did try Dalian, not right for J10

Only tried ground AA for a bit, don't seem to be that many people manning it as before is it defo still deadly?

[zipp0r]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

well its "just" about ok and ive been having alot more fun flying planes. but flares dont seem to be doing their job very well and missiles are still able to outturn the planes. the bombers have it VERY hard when being chased by fighters.

there could be several ways to finish off now, improve flares distracting missiles, shorter flare reload, more flares are released and missiles turning while a plane is in full lock with burners on could be adjusted.

anyone noticed pilots still spamming 6 missiles then pulling away expecting a kill? couldnt stop laughing

[[3SA]D|Sgt.Colinloves]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Ground AA's. Useless on jets.

Played last night. Got lock-on. Shot and they just fire in a straight line. Didn't even try to follow the jet's rough direction. Tried all different ways of shooting the AA, but none seemed to work. Downed one jet (I must of been cheating)
Even had a jet circling my AA gun, didn't bother with me at all, no shots, bombs or flares. Just took the pi$$ outta me really. Quite funny.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Ground AA's. Useless on jets.

Played last night. Got lock-on. Shot and they just fire in a straight line. Didn't even try to follow the jet's rough direction. Tried all different ways of shooting the AA, but none seemed to work. Downed one jet (I must of been cheating)
Even had a jet circling my AA gun, didn't bother with me at all, no shots, bombs or flares. Just took the pi$$ outta me really. Quite funny.

I dont like the sound of this.

[zipp0r]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Ground AA's. Useless on jets.

Played last night. Got lock-on. Shot and they just fire in a straight line. Didn't even try to follow the jet's rough direction. Tried all different ways of shooting the AA, but none seemed to work. Downed one jet (I must of been cheating)
Even had a jet circling my AA gun, didn't bother with me at all, no shots, bombs or flares. Just took the pi$$ outta me really. Quite funny.

hm ive shot down several jets with stingers/igla, plenty of choppers too. ive also seen many other people killing planes and choppers.
and ive been on the recieving end of them a few times, a stinger goes for you, you do the flares and a missile ignores them and still hits you.

[viper1431]

Re: Info about AA in 1.21

Ground AA's. Useless on jets.

Played last night. Got lock-on. Shot and they just fire in a straight line. Didn't even try to follow the jet's rough direction. .

Yep i've had the exact same experiance since the patch, the missiles don't even try anymore to track the jets.
I've hit once or twice but it's always been weird flukes.
This pic i took sums it up nicely

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jkaufman/BF2%202006-03-10%2015-30-20-76.jpg

The missiles just go off straight without trying to go for the jet, and he hadn't even released any flares, all they had to do its turn and the missile misses. Even hitting them when they come straight at you is a chore now. This is just one example of many that i've seen since the patch.

Just to add, i also tried it form the jet side, i grabbed one and just kept flying around their carrier, they always had a lock on, and missiles flew everywhere around me, but i didn't drop any flares, just kept turning and yep you guessed it, they couldn't shoot me down.
The missiles are back to only hitting out of a complete fluke more than anything.