For all plane whores.

**Blak_Phoenix** · 03-08-2006, 05:00 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

I will still fly, i love flying, and no i am not a whore about it, i would not kill another to get the jet or stand in front of it. If another got it, i would just move aside and get a heli or boat or tank.. etc etc.. and get on with my game, but this to me is a challenge, and i will still inspire fear from the skies, and outmanouvre your rockets, dont you worry about that.

So i feel good, thanks for asking. :)

**awebberuk** · 03-08-2006, 05:05 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Just leave em to it.

They do make me laugh. They die,they spawn at the airfield, they all kill each other to get an air vehicle (which i think is hilarious) and then they fly around scoring big points until they get shot down and do it all again. Well done lads. Hope your stats are impressive enough for you.
I don't do flying - jumped in a plane and got kicked by some sorry ass admin who kicked me for jumping in his ride. Loser.
I spawn as whatever outfit I feel like, jump in a tank if I see one, run around get involved in fire fights, get killed and start again. Have a good laugh, relieve some stress at the end of a bad day.

In case some of you forgot - it is only a game. But then maybe this game is all that some of you have got.

Happy flying

**strikken** · 03-08-2006, 05:10 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

I feel like you would be doing the same kind of bitching if say ... you were really awesome at capping flags. So awesome in fact that people complained that you were capping too many flags. Then in the next patch DICE gave squad leaders the ability to zap and insta-kill you when you were capping a flag somewhere across the map, to balance it out. No skill required, just the press of a button. You'd be pretty p*ssed.

I think the game is more accessible to the masses now, which on a general level is good. But I do feel a bit sorry for those who were truly skilled in aircraft, and have had their skills essentially made meaningless next to the click of someone who can get a lock. For the record, PlaneWhore and other pilots with real skill are STILL very good, and I think most everybody is missing the point they're trying to make. It's not that they are suddenly not invincible, or that they aren't getting as many points - they still ARE getting a lot of points, and it's not like any of them NEED any points in the first place. Their complaint is that DICE removed the skill and experience portion of the game for them. A veteran squad leader, due to his experience on the field, is very unlikely to fall for a noobish trap, or even die often to a person who is not as skilled as he. The same applies for MBTs and APCs; their skill and experience translates into longer life and more kills against those with less skill. That disparity has been taken away from jet (and to an extent helo) pilots, and THAT is the issue that frustrates a lot of the pilots. DICE said, "We know you've spent hundreds of hours in the air honing your skills ... but we feel that somebody who just picked up the game should be able to shoot you down with no real effort." It's not the points the pilots are concerned with - it's DICE's stance concerning their legitimate skill in the game.

So shut the hell up with your ragging on PlaneWhore; you and most of those who are doing it sound like f*cking morons.

**Sir. Shpox** · 03-08-2006, 05:16 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

I like flying in this game, but to the point where to Tk for something is just stupid. I get bored after a while, but flying is a great aspect in this game and one that makes it good and bad. Anyway, I fly because it's fun, more than 10 minutes in a jet is boring though. Unless im doing stunts.

**Fayadi** · 03-08-2006, 05:23 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

What AK Kitty say is true.. I don't find flying in a jet enjoyable at all. I mean the feeling of being involved in the ground is not there. Helicopter is so much more fun to play , 2nd is APC .

For a chopper pilot, I have no problem pawning with my Apache. In fact my kill to death ratio is improving now despite the new AA as I am my flying skill improve. The real problem lies in the vanilla choppers.. Too low missile count..

Flying chopper now relies more on intelligence . Like having to prioritise which to aim first and force one to watch his back as in the past no pilots fear AA.

**Bungalow_Bill** · 03-08-2006, 05:32 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Warning: Long poorly structured post ahead

I can already tell you how this thread is going to go, call me Mr Cleo.

A bunch of newbies are going to chime in and say "Oh well MrBenis actually I love this patch! I love the new found danger with the AA missiles and I love that is actually takes skill to pilot now!".

You addressed this thread to "The Plane Whores", and really, I'm currently holding the belt on that title, so as both a pilot (or rather, the pilot) and a groundpounder let me tell you how I honestly feel about 1.2

Dogfighting is flat out easier. All of the skill has been taken out of it, and the only things that matter are flare status, type of plane you are flying, and a host of other random variables that may or may not swing in your favor.

Ground AA versus planes is far too easy to use. No player imput is required at all. Why not go one step further and man all of the AA post with mindless robots? AA used to work in 1.12, but it required experience and technique, which is something most BF2 players do not have. Now in 1.2, even the most mentally handicapped individual can destroy the most skilled pilots. Not cool.

Staying alive in a plane for a newbie is no different than it was in 1.12, they died a lot in 1.12 and still die a lot in 1.2. The one huge difference however, is now a newbie actually defend themselves versus a veteran pilot. All it takes is two clicks of the missile button and they've taken out a grizzled veteran with absolutely no imput or intelligent thought required.

The problem with most of your post MrBenis is you are buying in to the propoganda that every single server had a pilot doing 100:0 rounds every single game and unbalancing the entire flow of the game. That is flat our wrong. I can remember only a handful of games where I encountered another pilot who could get up to the top of the scoreboard in 1.12. Of course, they were always on my team because any enemy pilot against me would be shot down constantly if I considered them a threat and they'd eventually just stop bothering with the jet.

Contrary to what you've said MrBenis, I've done the research, and my results were very conclusive. Taking a sampling of players out of the top 100 aviators/medic/helicopter pilots/assault/armor users/Spec Ops I've concluded without a shadow of a doubt that while pilots on the average had a better average kill death ratio (7/1 average) than the other unit types they had the lowest kills per minute, and the lowest score per minute. Let that sink in for a minute. A vehicle, that can only kill, not only getting outscored on the average by all of these other vehicles and infantry, but getting out killed as well. This is a vehicle that can ONLY kill ( can't capture flags ect..), and is limited to 1 or 2 per team and isn't even available on half of the maps or ANY Special Forces maps. Of course my testing methods used a fairly small sample, but I'm still confident that my findings would hold up on a much larger scale.

Very, very few pilots have statistics like those on my two pilot profiles. Don't believe me? Just click on the top pilots tab in BF2HQ (to give you the most experienced pilots in the game), click through from 1 on down the list and count how many pilots you see with these "alleged" 50:1+ K/D ratios. I've already looked to compare myself to how other pilots are doing and I can count the number of pilots with a decent K/D ratio mine in the top thousand on one hand.

I have a theory why you see all of these infantry complaining about these so called "uber pilots":

First off, they might just be lying. Lets face it, most infantry don't like pilots (for some unknown reason). Theoretically, certain individuals can damage so much arse while piloting fighter plane, if a player happens to encounter said individual (which may or may not be me) on a server in 1.12, They will beat them and their team down so hard they'll never forget this encounter with said individual. Even if the average pilot fails bother them and perhaps up to this point never have, they'll forever feel that planes are overpowered because that one round getting slaughtered by said individual remains so memorable. Of course, I play exclusively on 64 player servers, and over many hundreds of games that is many thousands of peoples opinions I have either broken or biased. Me and the few other pilots that could manage to kick ass on this level could've easily gotten planes nerfed by ourselves, even though we represent only a small fraction of pilots, we influence tens of thousands of opinions. Because lets face it, are you going to remeber the round where you saw that pilot go 100:0 and defiled your team while you were trolling on the carrier, or will you remember those other hundred of uneventful games where the pilots just sort of ended up at the bottom or middile of the score board and failed to kill you even once?

The final nail in the coffin for the argument, is my obersevations post 1.2. Since the patch, I've seen at least THREE TIMES as many people heading for the jets at the beginning of a 64 player game. Nowhere had I ever encountered this sort of appeal for planes in 1.12. Fact is, planes while being much more vulnerable, are now much easier to use, and thus much more appealing to the average player. Or rather, they turned the plane in to another tank or APC.

**MrChris_CJ** · 03-08-2006, 05:43 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

plane whore just owned you all...

are you guys forgetting this is battlefield 2...go play AA(Americas army) if your to crap to use AA(as in missile shooting vehicle). but i guess now you dont need to really try with your instakill AA...

dogfighting also sucks now...and helis are nerfed to the point that they are useless and better used as a doorstop perhaps..

**Sir. Shpox** · 03-08-2006, 05:44 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

No flames at all, I 98 % agree with what you said, AA did require skill but it was far too ineffective, it was fine against choppers. I mentioned that if they Improve AA for jets, it will unbalance it for choppers, but what they did was reduce the hit points too.

Other than that, your are correct. You should have been one of the beta testers for 1.2.

**MrBenis** · 03-08-2006, 05:46 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Vagabond: I question YOUR experience in this game. As a person playing since release, I can say with confidence that AA was ****. Anyone who claims they were good before 1.2 was talking **** because frankly, **** AA vs jets at what their composition entailed was a crock of ****.

BH got nerfed because it was a flying death machine, with miniguns (NOTE MINIGUNS) capable of blowing up an APC, the BH was NOT. NOT NOT NOT a transport chopper. The MEC and PLA equivilants were pathetic by comparison.

I stand by my original comment, and I denounce yours on terms of bias. I suck at flying now, and I sucked worse back then, but I got more kills, and I never dropped flares back then. For good reasons: missles never kept a lock, even tanks weren't strong enough to pop me with their mains so why dive bomb? Why fly with co-pilot when I have un-contested ruling of the skies utilising my meagre piloting skill?

Jets havent changed MUCH, lower hp and thats it. It was the AA that was brought back up to speed.

And I want you to know something friend.. AA in real life acts the same way it does in BF2 v1.2

The only time the F-35b will ever fly in RL is either against un-armed targets, or against somewhere the stealth jet bombers have already plastered. Modern general-purpose jets ARE NOT MBJ, they come secondary to stealth fighters, they always have (blitzkreig was a good example) and always will.

If I ever see PlaneWhore on BF2 I'll send him my thoughts personally with a stinger up his tailpipe.

At least they hit now.

**MrChris_CJ** · 03-08-2006, 05:49 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

lol yeh they hit cos you can point and click...
i can remember numerous times i took down planes in mobile AA (usa aa ftw) or even the godam stinger its about timing and skill... but i guess some people dont have it...

**MrBenis** · 03-08-2006, 06:00 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Oh planewhore, here's a newsflash for you... this isnt a flight simulator.

Have you even tried using AA since 1.2? Or have you only been on the recieving end?

AA requires patience, timing and conservation of resources. Contact and lock times are minimal at best, aim is required to ensure they maintain a lock (firing from the edge of the lock circle results in more failures than successful locks FYI)

Don't question my integrity either: I was there when those 100 per round scores were happening. They happened often, and there was no defence. If it makes any difference to your 2-dimensional tunnel vision, for the first time in months I got a chance to use an aironautical vehicle a few nights ago, mainly because the people in them were DYING for once. 1+1 = 2 mate: my missle plus your jet = you die. Not my missle plus your jet = you fly a loop and then chuckle to yourself because you bombed my two friends in the boat, then swung around and prawned my MAA with your pea-shooter cannon, and then soar off home for more bombs without taking any damage at all.

But now I've got a functional weapon and you wanna remove it so you can continue to statpad the unfortunate other pilots who maybe missed out on a jet because they were too slow, mis-spawned or got tk'd in the process?

Infact, I'd like the AA lock range to be increased, its too low, however thats a discussion for a different thread.

**maranello** · 03-08-2006, 06:02 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Please don't turn this into a flame war. I don't want to lock it, but I will if it becomes a flame war.

Just warning everyone so they don't get ****ed off when I lock it

**MistenTH** · 03-08-2006, 06:12 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Yes, I consider myself a planewhore. I do like to fly as for me, it's therapeutic and relaxing, and you get a huge degree of freedom.

I'd consider myself an above average pilot, although I don't spend as much time as the top pilots in the leaderboard. For comparison, I have a aircraft kill rate of 80 / hour (the top in the leaderboard is about 130), and a ratio of 7.

Overall Thoughts
I enjoy the new patch overall. Easier to get access to a fighter, ground troops are an element of the game that a pilot has to contend with, and dogfights don't last ages against another good pilot.

Anti-Air Missiles
1.12, you could be very sloppy and just making a turn would evade most missiles. No flares needed. While I agree that missiles game-play wise are 'skill-less', the fact is, they are HOMING missiles. And considering that aircraft have the most mobility, I do not mind the fact that as a pilot, whether I get shot down or not depends on my decision of when to move in, from where. The ground troops simply don't have the mobility to keep up.

It just seems strange the way they operate now, but now it's simple, clean facts. You screw up, you die. You fail to observe your surroundings, you die. You ignore the AA, you die. You're not playing some single-player game where the player is God, you're playing an MP game where every unit has its role.

Face it, v1.12 AA was broken. There was some skill involved, but the effort and danger you put into it does not translate into results. Imagine tank combat with a shell drop that varies greatly every single time. V1.2 AA works, and despite it's near complete accuracy, is a great thing to even the playing field against pilots who get cocky.

Dogfighting
While I obtained some enjoyment from gunning down enemy fighters, it was a pure waste of time, and futile against the J-10. The game is a little fairer now since the J-10 can be knocked out, although it's mobility allows it to get the upper hand more often.

This is Battlefield 2, and I want to get back to supporting the ground troops, knocking out the Attack-Helis terrorising them, taking out the tank defending that flag. I derive more enjoyment from that.

Ground Attack
No major changes for me, except that I do dive bombing more often now, and go for Anti-Air units first. Simply put, a fast dive bomb will net you the kill just as easily as v1.12, and AA will NOT be able to lock onto you in time, and that's if they even SEE you coming in the first place.

Helicopters
Attack Helos are more vulnerable now, but they still devastate unprotected ground troops. Similarly, an unprotected Heli will die to a decent fighter. Thanks to the new AA, I cannot slow down and knock out helos with impunity, despite the improved missiles. Either gunning or missiling a heli needs time, and AA will prevent that. But without AA or terrain protecting the heli, it's dead.

Transport copters get the really short end of the stick though. They ought to have more health considering now they are mainly transports.

Evading Missiles
Yes, it is still possible. Missiles launched at a very high angle of attack will still miss. Missiles chasing after high-speed turning aircraft will miss. When going at 1400-1600 speed, and looking at the rear view, I've seen missiles catch up to me, detonate, and I take no damage.

Conclusions
I just can't slow down and gun as much now due to the improved AA. My bombs still kill as often as before, and there's little defence the ground troops have against a fast strike aircraft, even with the new AA.

Helicopters either die very easily or not, depending on whether they are protected by AA or terrain.

I fear other aircraft more than AA, and I will be discouraged from chasing enemy fighters if they lead me into AA sites. Without enemy fighter cover, even with AA, I can still attack the opposition with impunity.

AA works well only when the pilot is exposed to it. Which happens when the pilot gets stupid, cocky or led into it. As a pilot, I have extremely high mobility, and if I let myself get locked onto by AA, without flares, that's my own fault. Given the lengthy lock on time, AA will never be able to track you in time to kill you.

**DrJambo** · 03-08-2006, 06:17 AM

Re: For all plane whores.

Here we go again....

Hasn't this topic been debated to exhaustion by now?

Mods - close?

For all plane whores.

For all plane whores.

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