Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[munky99999]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

- There are ways to avoid missiles, you just can't expect to do it over and over.

enlighten us? im quite sure that once you drop flares and i relock. ur dead. no question.

unless your talking about real life air2air.

which is the worst comparison to bf2. because of how unrealistic bf2 is.

but lets look at it. a2a missles have a specific length of time until there is no more thrust. and thusly will likely miss the target. so basically any plane which gain speed by boosting downwards at a turn. the missle is very unlikely to hit. or when they are firing from a distance. go up so the missle has to fight gravity. then drop straight down. the missle wont hit.

you also have ECM, flares, IR jamming,smoke.

ive also heard of pilots killing speed to slow as possible. dropping the assend with air break on, and spin as much as u can. with all the countermeasures. which makes the missle go dumb and simply fly straight.thusly missing.

Thats the problem I see. Its all very complex. and we cant expect that much in the game. but one thing ull find out. there is definately no chance that its whoever sees who first. Hell pilots can see each other for 10 mins before either can truely do anything.

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

So, if you don't think my arguments are worth anything because I don't whore on 64 player servers, than I would like to hear what you think I'm wrong with.

K/D has nothing to do with playernumbers. 32-player maps has a higher survivability that 64-maps.

[*] Do you think AA was good in v1.12?

It was good enough for helos but needed consistency. It was terrible that non flaring and hovering helicopters would be missed. I would be quite satisfied with the current AA if it didn't ignore flares and wasn't as bugged.

EDIT: The same also applies to planes i.e. non flaring and non evading jets would be missed. I would be satisfied with a mix of pre and post 1.2 AA.

I would however prefer a skill based AA. There have been a number of suggestions about that in various threads. My suggestion would be a really powerful cannon on the tunguska/linebacker/chinesethingy and that it would be placed on more maps. It won't be implemented though.

[*] Do you think A2A combat was exciting and worth its efforts in v1.12?

Yes. I just wanted a slightly more powerful cannon and that smokepuffs would register with the server.

[*] Do you think jets have become easy pickings with v1.2 and/or jets have become inferior?

Air to air combat is a joke and it's way to easy to shoot down jets without exerting any effort on the AA.

My beef is not with plane/helo vulnerability its with the autoaim nature of the AA. Combined with the buggy behaviour ATM it makes me want to scream.

[QUOTE=Mandos_2k][*] Anything else I'm messing up so wrongfully here?[/LIST]
Your questions are quite good and I'm hoping that you'll agree with most of my answers.

I know PlaneWhore's opinion on this which I don't share, but I'm curious what you would point out where my arguments can't stand because of my K/D ratio.

The part about the dogfights got me.

Also "lying" about your survivability doesn't help much. I've had it with people who paint a better picture of themselves on the forum. I've grown tired of people who say they're so good and when you look at their stats they have jack sh!t. I'm not saying you can't have a good round but K/D, SPM and KPM are pretty good indicators of skill and saying you kick ass when your values are subpar doesn't hold much water.

You said planes was more or less invulnerable and judging from your stats that isn't the case by far. Really skilled planes were more or less invulnerable from SAM's and that isn't acceptable but I don't think an autoaim weapon where you have more or less zero input on the hit percentage is acceptable.

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

enlighten us? im quite sure that once you drop flares and i relock. ur dead. no question.

Sorry, I miss typed and edited my post.

There is A way to avoid missiles.

Flare 'n break. That's it.

It might not present the most varried mechanics, but how you break is what counts. You simply can't afford to let your opponent relock after you've dropped flares. If he does, well... he out flew ya.

I can think of a couple more ways that could modify the system to allow for more flexible defencive maneuvers, but none of them will ever be used in BF2 simply because they would involve completely re-coding the logic. Since Air to air is such a small element in a large game, it's not worth it to either Dice or EA. Things are likely to remain the same as they are now... best to just adapt or move on.

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

If two pilots are chasing each other around the whole time only killing each other, how is it helping the team?

That is helping the team by letting the helos rip. They are arguably better killing machines than planes.

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Sorry, I miss typed and edited my post.

There is A way to avoid missiles.

Flare 'n break. That's it.

He's talking post launch without flares wargimp.

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

He's talking post launch without flares wargimp.

Yup, I dig. That's why I clairified.

After lastnight's round, I became more convinced that ever that there's no great need for being able to shake missiles post launch without flares.

It would be nice, but if you simply accept it as a mechanic of the game it's really not bad the way things are now.

[DrunkPikachu]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

My only real complaint about the missiles is that they have a 360 degree FOV and the newfound ability to seek out the targets it shouldn't be able to detect. I see it constantly work both ways while playing. I shoot a missile, and not 5 feet away from my target it decides to shoot off straight left or right from its origional path to hit a friendly that was nowhere near us. Or, I'm fairly close to the carrier in Oman when a missile fired at a helo over land manages to re-aquire me. If they could tone the missiles down a bit, possible somewhere between what it was and what it is now (or maybe leaning a bit toward the new mechanics), it would be perfect. Hell, it would be so much better if when it reaquires a new target, it will point to it, but then lose the ability to turn so that it would travel straight (meaning it would hit stationary heat sources like a hovering helo, but not go bat@#^& crazy and hit a moving target way the hell out of range)

As unrealistic as it might be (as BF2 already is), it would be fun if we could get a Behind Enemy Lines moment and have a chase between a missile and plane.

[Gamerguy X]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

its so frustrating - Bf2 was great (except for a few things like noob-toobers, etc.) but now Dice has almost outraged everyone but changing everything. Its just nuts! Why didnt they just do the minimum amount of changes, and not make this soooo damn drastic! The A2G missles go from good to incredible and same with the A2A. Now I cant jump and shoot a freaking pistol anymore! I used to be able to jump so my gun was over a wall and shoot - not anymore

*sigh*....its all in vein, though, becuase Dice isnt reading this anyway...

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

i am getting tired of people killing me with their guns, that needs to be nerfed

[Alcorr]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Flare 'n break. That's it.

It might not present the most varried mechanics, but how you break is what counts. You simply can't afford to let your opponent relock after you've dropped flares. If he does, well... he out flew ya.

But thats the thing.

If the guy thats locked onto you has a plane that is just as manuverable as yours or even more so....your doomed....

I just played for the past 6 hours using jets....and I never got over 10 kills in a round in jets....until today.

It was insane, with these missles it was a joke. I fly using the mouse, and I really suck at flying jets, but because hitting people with the cannon was unncecsary (altho useful) it was so easy to down people.

I killed twice as many choppers/jets than I did people on the ground....

Every time a guy did what you said..."flare n break" I just followed him and watched as he ejected flares and did all sorts of crazy manuvers but I just waited until I got a semi good position, shot two missiles...and he died.

And there were many skilled pilots too.

I sucked, they had skill.

I killed them.

How does that make sense?

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

But thats the thing.

If the guy thats locked onto you has a plane that is just as manuverable as yours or even more so....your doomed....

Aye, there's some truth their. All things being equal, one plane shouldn't be able to shake another. But this is true reguardless of missile tracking. Even if you are just using guns, logic dictates that two planes with the same characteristics should not be able to lose eachother.

In practice, we know this isn't the way it works out.
Gun fights lasted longer and allowed the defender more oportunity to get away. Missile fights are short and you don't get the same lenght of time to clear your tail.

I just played for the past 6 hours using jets....and I never got over 10 kills in a round in jets....until today.

It was insane, with these missles it was a joke. I fly using the mouse, and I really suck at flying jets, but because hitting people with the cannon was unncecsary (altho useful) it was so easy to down people.

I killed twice as many choppers/jets than I did people on the ground....

I do believe that is exactly the intended mechanic. Fighter kill things in the sky. That's what they're FOR! The adition of bombs on fighters was no doubt included just to make them a bit more flexible (and thus make players happier).

Every time a guy did what you said..."flare n break" I just followed him and watched as he ejected flares and did all sorts of crazy manuvers but I just waited until I got a semi good position, shot two missiles...and he died.

And there were many skilled pilots too.

I sucked, they had skill.

I killed them.

How does that make sense?

Did you magicly just appear on their tails?
No?
Well... what did you do that allowed you to get on 'em?
Ya maneuvered... prolly thinking about how you could work the angle to get into that position, right?

That's half the fight right there.
If they were unable to shake 'em after you go on their tail, then you dun good.

Thing is, I'm a mouse flyer too... and it feels totally unnatural to me. I don't consiter myself a good pilot while I'm using this interface. However, I was able to shake people off and get away.

How do you explain that?

[inf4my]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Thing is, I'm a mouse flyer too... and it feels totally unnatural to me. I don't consiter myself a good pilot while I'm using this interface. However, I was able to shake people off and get away.

How do you explain that?

Such a typical comment of this forum. I'll tell you how I explain it, you're full of SH*T.

Let me catch you on a server, I will shoot you down 50x in a row. I would bet MONEY on the fact that there is no possible way you could stay alive with me in the air.

[[GU]LIZARD{GEN}]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Actually it is intended to be like that. BF2 is arcade but atleast before hand a noob couldn't just jump in a plane. Its the same concept for the new AA. Jump into the AA and your gurnated kills. Get behind a jet pilot fire every missile and your guranted a kill. EA's own personal super aim bot. Manuvers and losing planes has nothing anymore. I can lose planes that get on me, if I lose them while I am cheifing, and stay within the flares. If not then I am a dead man.

As for the guy who said this thread is whining. Watch the video of PlaneWhore again. Hes obviously a skilled pilot. How he is whining about not being able to kill someone? He clearly owned everyone in the video. I can't discredit someone for thinking its to easy now because its very true. Its just way to easy to be in a plane. Forget bombing, find a blackhawk full of people theres 5 or 6 kills for you right there. Everyone is suddenly a whiner according to alot of people. The people whining however are the ones who are Infantry, or just hate it when the map changes to an Air map. Those are the people who have 20 thousand kills in a tank. Let them nerf something on the ground then another class of people will be here posting the same ****.

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Ah... Liz... if PW isn't whining, what exactly is he doing?

I don't see much constructive input coming from him and not a wit of suggestion as to how to adapt to the new mechanics.

[inf4my]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

He Has Adapted, He's Still Better Than Everyone, Get It Through Your Head.