Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[vbl]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Oh darn, sorry I forgot I shouldn't have given any additional purpose to the least popular kit in the game. Although I'd say for as rare as they are, engineers are very underated, they've got a pretty nice shotgun, mines, and the ability to repair units. Though, the number of things to repair is rather limited, which is the reason they're usually attached to armor whores. Making AA require repairs from an engineer would give them a whole new vital purpose and role to serve during the round.

I'd consider that a positive side-effect of this change, engineers certainly need more of a (critical) purpose, and defending against AA is certainly very important to any team. So that would make engineers the total anti-vehicle package, with mines for the tanks and repaired AA for the planes and helicopters.

I'm one of the few that play engineer a lot, and I don't want to spend the entire round driving from AA site to AA site repairing them. It's a horrible idea. Just awful.

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I wish some of the hard-nosed pro-pilots in this thread would listen to the one pro-pilot who can actually see a little further than the "patch 1.2 has taken away all our dogfighting 1337 skills"

Effect, 1.12 meant with the way players play the game that in reality players would not dogfight, check forum posts from the past I've seen players state they would not dogfight as it took too long. Maybe PW would, maybe I would, but how many, how often, it was rare.

Bottom line was that in 1.12 on the ground you'd be playing exposed to planes, your own fighters would be bombing the enemy and baseraping but taking out fighters very very rare. Heck as I could dogfight I could clear the skys of enemy planes in ten minutes in 1.12.

Now it's worth dogfighting (as quick as it is) so everyone can expect some cover. Has the skill be taken away, a little yes but you'll still win more battles than you lose if your good enough but other fighters will enagage now.

As a side note although the ground AA is not a big issue to an experianced pilot, if I spot someone behind me the first thing I'm doing is heading over friendly turf and praying that one of the guys on the ground is manning AA.

If I spot our players trying to take an important postion with AA on it you can be dam sure I'm going to help them it will be something less to think about.

PW you may have been a team player covering your team and taking on enemy fighters I certainly always tried to be a team player, but in 1.12 the majority of pilots were not team players, it was me me me.

I've also noticed you trying to pull chopper pilots onto your side in this debate, well I don't know what game your playing but I don't even bother with AA to take them out, cannons are the most effective way. Besides I agree choppers have a horrible deal with the new patch but that isn't what this thread is about.

This IS what really happened. Dogfighting didn't bring in the points quick enough in 1.12 and pilots dogfighting wasn't as commonplace as we're being lead to believe by some in this thread. Unless a pro-pliot was in a J-10, where he then had a clear manoeuvrability advantage, pilots would often simply avoid other enemy jets. A few sharp turns here, a few there, and evasion and pursuit simply became too time consuming to be fruitful in 1.12.

The net result - why bother?? Jet pilots on both sides quickly learned that mutually bombing the crap out of enemy flags, spawn points, armour and shooting choppers with cannons was far more beneficial score-wise. At least with 1.2, the message is much clearer - ignore enemy jets at your peril. The increased activity in the skies has given the ground pounders some much needed breathing space and for that a great majority are thankful. Pilots can still get their high scores and 20:1 kill death ratios, they just have to spend more time doing this in the air versus other pilots rather than raping the ground.

[Wreck0]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

In part I agree that S2A is balanced to an extent, as on the first observation of the ground AA I thought they had kept the range at the same ridiculous levels in 1.1, but they lowered it a bit which helps balance things out. They really need to slow the reload time on them though, and make it so they are required to be repaired by an engineer after being destroyed. I'd be happy if they made those adjustments, and made it so the missiles in general don't chase any target other than the one they were originally locked on to. I think everyone would be pleased with that change.

Air to air combat however is a complete joke, as is clearly visible in the video.

So you want AA to pop up less often, fire less missiles, and unlocked missiles to have no chance to aquire an enemy target (if that works, which some claim it does), even if it does reduce FF incidents. You basically want to nerf AA. Hardly seems necessary.

[Paas]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Oh darn, sorry I forgot I shouldn't have given any additional purpose to the least popular kit in the game. Although I'd say for as rare as they are, engineers are very underated, they've got a pretty nice shotgun, mines, and the ability to repair units. Though, the number of things to repair is rather limited, which is the reason they're usually attached to armor whores. Making AA require repairs from an engineer would give them a whole new vital purpose and role to serve during the round.

I'd consider that a positive side-effect of this change, engineers certainly need more of a (critical) purpose, and defending against AA is certainly very important to any team. So that would make engineers the total anti-vehicle package, with mines for the tanks and repaired AA for the planes and helicopters.

I agree. Make Engineers the only source of repair. If you want your tank fixed, find and Engineer. You want your APC fixed? Find and Engineer! You want your Helo Fixed? Find an Engineer! You want your Jet repaired? Land it... call for repairs, and wait on an Engineer.

I think the pads should only reload the vehicles weapons if they land. Yet, if you want to have your damage repaired. You need to find and Engineer.

...yet having to have Engineers to repair A.A. and still allow Jets to fly around Willy-Nilly, that's just stupid.

If it applies to every vehicle on the map, I consider that balanced.

{WP}Paas

[vbl]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I agree. Make Engineers the only source of repair. If you want your tank fixed, find and Engineer. You want your APC fixed? Find and Engineer! You want your Helo Fixed? Find an Engineer! You want your Jet repaired? Land it... call for repairs, and wait on an Engineer.

I think the pads should only reload the vehicles weapons if they land. Yet, if you want to have your damage repaired. You need to find and Engineer.

...yet having to have Engineers to repair A.A. and still allow Jets to fly around Willy-Nilly, that's just stupid.

If it applies to every vehicle on the map, I consider that balanced.

{WP}Paas

I don't. On most maps the number of reparable vehicles already outnumbers a 16-man team, much less the number of engies on a team. If you required everything to be repaired by players we'd require 32 engineers in a 32 player game. That, or no one would bother with vehicles anymore. That's not fun on either count.

It's a bad idea and it's not worthy of any further debate.

[inf4my]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

No offense I'm sure you're a good pilot PlaneWhore but that video you posted was lame dude. Every single jet you shot down was a complete noob, not to mention the fact that you had a ridiculous speed/maneuverability advantage.

Post a video of you in an F-35, shooting down MiG or J-10 pilots who actually know what they're doing if you want to impress or teach people.

Btw, what did you use to make this vid?

[ApocolypZ]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

the guy who posted back sometime ago was right, about the majorority of the people don't post here, so the few that speak, speak for themselves. my problem with the planes and helis are yoou guys think that your so skilled in bombing runways and strafing the infantry over and over. so when you do take a hit all you have to do is FLY over the runway to rearm and repair. thats ******** if you guys want it to be more relistic then you should have to land your plane for ammo and repair, that should cut down on all the i'm the best pilot out there because i can bomb you over and over, never run out of fuel or ammo for 45 mins.

don't confuse this with a whining post because the is the first i have erver posted on anything.the pilots have had it to easy for to long. the ******** about the aa hitting 1.12 is ********. we can set up a server 1.12 take 3 good pilots from this forums, and let planewhore and the other pilots that never used the aa to try and take them down. Accept that challenge and well see how much you think about the 1.12 aa after its over. now from what i have seen the aa is a bit to accurate, along with the a2a. untill you can prove to me that the aa works in 1.12, i say your full of **** and mad because before you were god like with 100/1 ratios while not ever having to land for refuel or ammo or repair. take that into consideration and the pilots have the easiest job in the game. by the way i've never been in the military but from what ii have watched on the military channel, normally when a plane gets the drop on a another from behind the plane in the front 8/10 times loses, noob or skilled. Prove to me that the aa in 1.12 works and then i'll agree with you, but i've used it to many times only to watch the missle go right at you then turn off to hit a freindly.

i never liked flying before because i wasn't skilled at it like some of you are, it just seemed no fun just bombing the same place every 15 seconds. now you have to watch for other jets and helis, i'm more intrested in flying. seems like it would be more fun now.

[pYura]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

what is so special in this video? did I miss something??

ps.: when you are flying a jet the biggest enemy is called LAG [at least for me]

[Cregser]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Don't modern jets carry shed loads of chaffs and flares? There should be less waiting between chaff/flare reloads (they look like chaffs but then why do the missiles lock onto heat sources??). That'll hopefully make dogfights last a little longer.

Also, modern jets have radar to identify targets from miles away... so I suppose BF2 feels no need to simulate real life.

[Alcorr]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

If you don't like it Wargimp how about you go make Battlefield "gamblers" edition? Instead of "twitch" when you encounter an enemy you can have it so the screen freezes, and then you randomly click on one of 3 identical boxes, and if you get lucky and click the correct one and your opponent does not, you sir have just gotten yourself a frag.

LOL!

Reflexes + Knowlage(tactics) + teamwork = skill

Umm I didn't say that wasn't true. I just said skill involved reflexes.

And no, you can be highly skilled and be a lone wolf....

So you want AA to pop up less often, fire less missiles, and unlocked missiles to have no chance to aquire an enemy target (if that works, which some claim it does), even if it does reduce FF incidents. You basically want to nerf AA. Hardly seems necessary.

Well, I don't know if I want that, but thats bettter than what we have now. At least it would be somewhat balanced.

The net result - why bother?? Jet pilots on both sides quickly learned that mutually bombing the crap out of enemy flags, spawn points, armour and shooting choppers with cannons was far more beneficial score-wise. At least with 1.2, the message is much clearer - ignore enemy jets at your peril. The increased activity in the skies has given the ground pounders some much needed breathing space and for that a great majority are thankful. Pilots can still get their high scores and 20:1 kill death ratios, they just have to spend more time doing this in the air versus other pilots rather than raping the ground.

Thats true, but now dogfighting is a joke, one lock and hes dead....
Look, I don't see why aircraft were nerfed in the first place, people complain about (unecceary) things too often. Pilots going 20:1 kill death ratios....I could care less....

Even when I was a total noob to this game, getting bombed repeatedly by a jet, while not satisfying, was just something you had to live with.

And choppers....well ive already said why they didn't need to be touched....

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

No offense I'm sure you're a good pilot PlaneWhore but that video you posted was lame dude. Every single jet you shot down was a complete noob, not to mention the fact that you had a ridiculous speed/maneuverability advantage.

Post a video of you in an F-35, shooting down MiG or J-10 pilots who actually know what they're doing if you want to impress or teach people.

Btw, what did you use to make this vid?

How many other people will fail to understand the point of this video? But yeah, sorry I didn't create a badass dogfighting video impressive enough for you to watch full of extreme air to air combat. But I promise, once (if) DICE makes dogfighting take skill again I will make a new one just for you.

[ApocolypZ]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

just got done playing 24/7 wake island, about 5 games or so. saw so many pilots with less skill then what i saw in your video still doing what they have always done. ruling the map, never complaning about being shot down by me. the aa is not perfect by any means. i shot down a total of 7 aircraft missed numerous that had a lock and were coming deadon at me. i see no need in changing it. the other times i was in there the snipers on the other team used me for target practice. it seems if try to sit there for longer then a shot or 2 your sniper bait. balance seems good to me

[inf4my]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

How many other people will fail to understand the point of this video? But yeah, sorry I didn't create a badass dogfighting video impressive enough for you to watch full of extreme air to air combat. But I promise, once (if) DICE makes dogfighting take skill again I will make a new one just for you.

Don't get so defensive man, I'm not knocking your skills or anything. From all your posts that I've read I'm sure you can hold your own against almost anyone.

I'm just saying that this video doesn't really show anybody anything... regardless of what it's purpose is. If you're trying to show that the A2A missiles are overpowered, how is that video going to prove anything? Those pilots you shot down DESERVED to go down. They were complete and total noobs; none of them had any idea you were behind them before the lock, and even after the initial lock, they barely tried to evade at all. IMO, in those types of situations, the missiles should hit 100% of the time. So what you showed in the video is actually the POSITIVE aspect of 1.2.

Now keep in mind, I hate 1.2 as much as you do.... but not because it's easy to shoot down total noobs. You need to make a video of really good pilots getting shot down during hard turns and complicated evasive maneuvers, where the missiles have no business hitting them. That is the kind of video that will open people's eyes to just how retarded this patch is.

Before 1.2, I got shot down probably two times in the last six months, and both times it was because of a lucky random missile. The reason I was able to stay in the air was not because of the crappy missiles, it was because it is nearly impossible to get behind me without me seeing you. So, before the other pilot could even get his lock, I was already started into my evasive action, making it impossible for him to do anything.

Now, in my experience, there is VERY VERY VERY FEW pilots who demonstrate this kind of awareness in the air. And the one's that do, DESERVE to stay alive. But this patch has made it so that any noob can get a half a second lock, and spam all his missiles at you, and they will hit you at 95 degree angles, during hard turns + burner, at 750 altitude. THAT is the kind of **** that needs to be fixed. The situations demonstrated in your video are exactly the way they should be. Noobs who don't pay attention, and don't evade, should die EVERY SINGLE TIME.

[jakswan]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

How many other people will fail to understand the point of this video? But yeah, sorry I didn't create a badass dogfighting video impressive enough for you to watch full of extreme air to air combat. But I promise, once (if) DICE makes dogfighting take skill again I will make a new one just for you.

PW it's getting old pretty fast, look I see your point, I respect your point but frankly you do not see anyone else's only your own.

You say look at this the AA now, no skill, but your credibility with that video went down the pan, against those pilots in a J10 on Wake Island, always was
a turkey shoot. Fine look at this, flying a lesson in boredom:-

http://www.mp-computers.com/BF2fs1.wmv

All the previous patch, take a look at me setting up the chopper for second kill, jeez I wouldn't dream of flying like that now, that front AA I passed over it without a worry, I also turned my back on the carrier twice, common flight path for US planes why not there are no other pilots on the server that can scare me.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

i think the planes and helos are fine they way they are now