Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[Harmor]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

planewhore, you are retarded.

If he's retarded, then I want to be retarded as well.

helicopters arent a whole lot easier to kill now than in 1.12, it was still an easy kill, just took two passes rather than one.

Doesn't "one pass" == easier?

All we need to do is go back to 1.12 A2A and everything will be fine.

Its getting to the point where I'm considering just bailing out of a jet when I see another jet behind me. Its like no points for an average pilot, like myself, to try to evade in 1.12.

It definiately seems to be "First to lock. First to kill."

[Batausu]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Thanks for the tips included in the movie!
I am a rookie and proud of it.
I started to care about this career after the patch, because it seems like a challenge, with the improvements in AA and all that.
After seeing your movie, it doesn’t look like a challenge at all.
I guess that air-to-air missiles have a chance to hit proportional to the time in the air that the pilot has. I find in my case that not all locked missiles hit. But I still bring down lots of jets.
Occasionally I encounter a better pilot who shoots me down, but I always get my revenge :p .
After this small amount of time I spent in the air, I can say that most deaths I have are due to choppers. What?! You may ask…
That’s because I don’t have enough experience to gun them down, like you do. The speed difference makes me slow down, trying to hit them, until I simply crash :) .
Well, thanks again for showing me how pros do it!
One other thing: I’d like to know what you consider to be the best way to control your plane.
I started with the keyboard controls and I am comfortable with it. I hear others use both keyboard and mouse, while others use joysticks.
I feel like you can use some competition to spice up the game, so why not teach some juniors? If you fly for points, than I’ll understand why not… but if you do it for fun, than I am all ears.

[Demio]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Huh, those guys you shot down were dumb. I usually fly a lot of airplanes and more often I get shot down by stray missiles our ground-to-air than air-to-air.

The trick is, when you get locked on, do some 90º up and down, left and right, all this while barrel rolling. 1 Missile will you max.

And I agree with roger smith. This isnt WWII anymore and if you want WWII dogfights go play BF1942.

[tsh2005]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

After many requests for a dogfighting video tutorial, I've finally delivered. On an obvious sour note however, as this is dogfighting in the 1.2 patch, but I often find satire to be quite effective at getting a point across.

All of this footage was filmed during a single round of 64 player Wake, I would've liked to get more dogfighting footage in but towards the end of the round the enemy team stopped bothering with the planes.

Stream the video online at:

http://media.putfile.com/Highway-to-the-Boredom-Zone72

so true. So boring now

helis very easy to take out as well beacuse of how weak they are

who ever says it takes skills is just bs. SOOO boring takes no skill. Just like the ground AA. point click hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit

And the AA missles can make turns and changes anything anyone trys to do. Theres vids around the web showing the AA zig zagging along in circles and still hits its target. If anyone wants to see it just post. If you just get a lock on at any place you will hit

LOL i cant believe people are disagreeing with you. Doesnt take any skill at all. Anything you try to do doesnt matter beacuse once locked you get hit


"The trick is, when you get locked on, do some 90º up and down, left and right, all this while barrel rolling. 1 Missile will you max."


not true.. Rolling/turning/ anything you get hit.. You people must not fly

[unununium]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

so true. So boring now

helis very easy to take out as well beacuse of how weak they are

who ever says it takes skills is just bs. SOOO boring takes no skill. Just like the ground AA. point click hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit hit

And the AA missles can make turns and changes anything anyone trys to do. Theres vids around the web showing the AA zig zagging along in circles and still hits its target. If anyone wants to see it just post. If you just get a lock on at any place you will hit

LOL i cant believe people are disagreeing with you. Doesnt take any skill at all. Anything you try to do doesnt matter beacuse once locked you get hit


"The trick is, when you get locked on, do some 90º up and down, left and right, all this while barrel rolling. 1 Missile will you max."


not true.. Rolling/turning/ anything you get hit.. You people must not fly

Don't put yourself in the situation where you've got AA pointing at you. Be more alert when you're flying around and learn the maps better so that you know where the AA positions are and what the optimal angle is to take them out.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

helis very easy to take out as well beacuse of how weak they are

as they should be

who ever says it takes skills is just bs. SOOO boring takes no skill. Just like the ground AA.

um, wtf are you talking about, the pilot has a huge advantage over aa. you are not even making a solid point.

And the AA missles can make turns and changes anything anyone trys to do.

not true, flare, and ive been able to avoid some missiles fired at extreame angles.

Theres vids around the web showing the AA zig zagging along in circles and still hits its target.

thats a bug

Doesnt take any skill at all.

did it take any skill before, when you could follow a good pilot forevor and never kill them, as they rain hell on your buddies?

not true.. Rolling/turning/ anything you get hit..

i believe he ment to avoid getting locked onto.

[tsh2005]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Lol spend all that time quoting me.

yea anyways

you misunderstood

Helis as in weak. AS in jets can take them out less then 2 secs


Advantage over AA? what AA? Im talking about air to air. Again no.. no skill is needed. Dont believe me whatever but it doesnt. Make a server ill join. Point click hit. Easy. A 11 year old can take you out


Flaring.. Ok. Lol again. All flares do for jets is make the lock cut off so when your in the AA you have to relock back on.

Show me a vid when flares work??

Doestn take any skill as in point click dead. Before the patch at least you had to stay with the person.. Copy everything he did and point your machine gun above him and Fire right at that one sec he goes level. Much better then before which now its point click hit

Honestly there must be a lot of EA fan boys or just people who have no idea what they are talking about. Dont play/dont fly/ or just dont pay attention

edit gussing only small server and larger maps is what you guys play. Then its easy killing, base rapin, killing the only One person in the AA. Get in a more team based game and larger number of people that care

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Wargimp made some very good points in a previous post. The most telling was this:

Seriously tho... how about showing us you getting shot down. You're entire argument is that the Air to Air has been noobified. If that's the case, shouldn't we see you being splashed just as often as your happless victems? If not, I guess you've got skill and they don't... which kills your argument.

Catch 22s are a pain in the arse, ain't they?
:p

Also, that vid was had more action in it that your previous blow the crap outta everything on the ground vids. You made things on the ground dead just as easlily as you're killin planes here... and atleast the planes get a chance to shoot back. I don't see how that's a big departure.

If flying has allegedly become so deskilled, then how come pro-pilots are still going 50-1 in servers? If we're to believe the 1.2 A2A or AA moaners, then surely there would be more evidence to prove each and every noob scoring kills against these pros? Also wouldn't the pros be more like 25-15 or something?

Sorry, but the evidence is still to the contrary and suggests that there's still plenty of skill in dogfighting.

[$kelet0r]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

my advice to the doubters is to get the bocage flying map and fly with the bots, flares work and work really well - 2 missiles with tracking will miss if they encounter flares

[LoKi.]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Alot of discusion about AA here, fact is it was fine when the game was 1st released, back then I couldn't fly and didnt have a joystick I played mostly karkand, but still have the vivid memory of getting my Air Defense Ribbon.

I was sat on the South docks on Dilian plant for an entire round and brought down numerous Hawks, cobra's and jets, got my Air defense ribbon about 30 kills and gold medal.

As pilots adapted and learned the location of AA sites and how to use flares and manouveres effectivly then you had to time better be more precise with lead of tageting etc.

Just one week before the 1.2 patch I sat on the IGLA at the chinese airfield on Daquing Oilfields and shot down at least 10 planes in one round.

Planes took skill, choppers took skill, AA even took skill, now after 1.2 its all been NOOBIFIED, ie wait for lock wait for flare wait for lock click click.

You say AA was usless, yet all you have to do is look at the Air defense rank lists and I see several names at the top that shot me down with the main gun on the essex on a daily basis, these people were the real skilled AA guys.

If we had as many people fighting over the essex as there were for the choppers and planes we would have alot of skilled AA people out there.

We were considering looking for some good AA guys for our squad as we already had a pretty dominant Air Force, but lacked on the pure AA guys.

Now its not necisary to recruit such a type as anybody who just bought the game can do it.

Btw PW nice video, loved the tunes shame its the same sh1t we see everyday though, we can but hope for some challanges in the next hotfix *crosses fingers*

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Alot of discusion about AA here, fact is it was fine when the game was 1st released, back then I couldn't fly and didnt have a joystick I played mostly karkand, but still have the vivid memory of getting my Air Defense Ribbon.
I was sat on the South docks on Dilian plant for an entire round and brought down numerous Hawks, cobra's and jets, got my Air defense ribbon about 30 kills and gold medal.

Yes, I remember doing the same thing when the game was new and there were a lot of newbies playing.

As pilots adapted and learned the location of AA sites and how to use flares and manouveres effectivly then you had to time better be more precise with lead of tageting etc.
Just one week before the 1.2 patch I sat on the IGLA at the chinese airfield on Daquing Oilfields and shot down at least 10 planes in one round.
Planes took skill, choppers took skill, AA even took skill, now after 1.2 its all been NOOBIFIED, ie wait for lock wait for flare wait for lock click click.

No, there's no difference using AA then and using AA now. It's always been point and click. THe only difference is pre-1.2 the AA missiles never hit planes with any consistency, even when the pilot was flying straight. You're claim to hitting 10 planes on Daqing Oilfields sounds fabricated and without proof doesn't have credibility. Noobified lol, "wait for lock wait for flare wait for lock click click" sounds exactly like it should operate, so I don't know what you're trying to prove with that point!?

You say AA was usless, yet all you have to do is look at the Air defense rank lists and I see several names at the top that shot me down with the main gun on the essex on a daily basis, these people were the real skilled AA guys.

And again, there's no difference between how one operates an AA site - it's still point and click. Therefore, the only point you've actually proven is that there is skill in using AA; it's just that now you're more likely to be rewarded for all your efforts in an AA site.

Now its not necisary to recruit such a type as anybody who just bought the game can do it.

Like I said, nothing's changed. Good AA users will still get more kills than newbies. It's just that now a newbie has a chance too, just like they have to kill anyone using any other aspect of BF2. A newbie in a tank can kill someone, a newbie in AA can kill someone, a newbie on foot can skill someone. That someone could easily be a pro, so please explain why AA should be singled out?

[Red Ghost]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Cry More, play less. I'm having fun where the real fighting and skill is. On the ground.

Cya!

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

What I would like to see overall as the best solution for jets and AA is the removal of static AA sites and at least have some mobile AA on all maps where jets are present.

[imported_E1_Pr3sidente]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Is it just me thats getting fed up with all these posts about the AA not working/working too well? The thing is everyone knows that the AA needed to be improved and now it has. sure it might have taken some of the skill out of the game for the expert pilots but let me ask you something, honestly.

How many people on these forums can shoot down every plane they get behine with 2 missiles? How many people shoot down every plane that flies overhead with a static AA? I know for a fact i cannot and the people i have been flying against cant, and the people in the static's cant so where's the problem for the masses? Sure clan matches must be something different as they have dedicated pilots and maybe if PW's on the server but apart from that i actually enjoy and welcome the changes!

The truth of the matter is that DICE have created a patch that makes the game more accessable to everyone that plays it. I am not an expert, i have put my hours in and think i am doing ok but there are loads of people out there better than me. The point i am making is that you have the top, what, 5% maybe that complain it's taken all of the fun out of it for them when the rest of us now stand a chance of enjoying all the features as well. I've been flying before and after the patch and i still have trouble getting planes to go down, not as much but at least i get some reward for flying! Sure it must really suck if you are that expert pilot and now it's just point and click but why not start working the ground some more and develop other aspects of the game...

The only thing that PW vid shows is that a skilled pilot and can shoot down newbs all day long, but he's called Planewhore, he is a Planewhore and he has dedicated his BF2 experience to being a Planewhore. I think the problem is that people want too much from the game. if you want a realistic fighter sim with working AA and all the other stuff people say is rubbish, buy a plane sim. It's built to do what you want it to do and you don't even have to worry about those pesky flags!!

I'm not saying you should leave but the point is that you have a game where, in my opinion, a lot of people can go online, play as a team and enjoy a good arcarde/sim shooter thats a lot of fun for everyone who plays it. People should enjoy the game they bought and keep on enjoying it. if you have lost the love then maybe it's time to move on, if you still love it then you should adapt to the way the game is being developed.

This is a game for everyone and is being developed so it is accessable to everyone. i really don't think this is such a bad idea... I'm not saying it's perfect by a long way but it's fun and DICE are doing their best to develop the game according to what you guys complain about. when they put a change in, everyone jumps on the hate mongering bandwagon again and slates them. After some of the comments on this forum and others, if people were saying this about the hours and hours of work i had put in on a project, i'd move onto a new one and leave all you complainers behind! Some respect should be shown i think...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to tonights show. On seat 1 we have Mr Roger Smith from Groundland who just recently started to fly and couldnt achieve anything with the machine guns, hes eager to learn and kick some ass since AA released a new WMD- a 100% hitting A2A aimbot.

Seat 2 we have PlaneWhore, a gentleman who just now showed a video with a point in it that the missiles in fact do hit with a 100% efficiency. He also showed us how the planes on the chasing side do not need maneuvering, and that even if the escapee was maneuvering there is 0% oh him surviving POST-LOCK.



This is your host, Chris_Redfield.

4) its not a complete joke at all, its a completly different fight from before, but it still takes

skill

, heres the difference. in 1.12 2 really good pilots could be up there all round dog fighting, in 1.2, its over in seconds, thats the difference, good pilots dont let enemy jets on thier tails, and if they do, they die.

Mr Smith here has been under heavy influence of "something" because he believes it takes skills, handling a weapon that is 100% "more or less" in its lock-on-launch-to-hit probability. Mr Smith also thinks that aquiring a lock and flying behind someone just enough to aquire that lock is skills. Mr Smith also suggests that using a weapon that doesnt need precision aiming, timing, angle and choice is skills. He also believes that dodging a missile that is going to hit you no matter what is also skills.
On the skill side of things he also thinks that the helicopters should be an easy prey for the planes but like others he must be thinking that planes vs infantry should from now on take skills. Planes vs AA in particular.
What Mr Smith REALLY thinks is that it SHOULDNT take such a skill level an experienced player has, to down a player with superior skill level like it is throughout the game.

exactly, and there was nothing wrong with how any of it turned out, the jet is on the top of the food chain, as it should be, only a better pilot, or aa can kill it, as it should be.

Mr Smith presented us an argument that was valid before the 1.2 and has zero relevance to the current situation because the status hasnt changed.

Mr Smith calls in for his wingman, sitting on chair 3. Ladies and Gentlemen, give a warm welcome to WARGIMP.

Well, nice ta see ya adapting PW.
Too bad all I saw in terms of air to air was you shooting down people who didn't maneuver at all. Maybe the players you were playing with need ta take a look at that thread o mine.

Unfortunately for Wargimp, he too missed the point of the video, and makes his team to lose 3 points and go 1 page back to the original post where the video is.
To remind him of the content. The video wasnt actually "1.2 dogfight 101". But more of an example on how its easy to shoot at any plane/chopper at any time and have a positive hit. In fact, he didnt HAVE to perform maneuvers to chase, nor to evade.

Seriously tho... how about showing us you getting shot down. You're entire argument is that the Air to Air has been noobified. If that's the case, shouldn't we see you being splashed just as often as your happless victems? If not, I guess you've got skill and they don't... which kills your argument.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Im afraid Im going to have to annouce this team as losers in this show. The purpose of this video was never meant to be "How A2A kills me so easily" as we got the FRONT SEATS on how they work now from a chasers perspective. As you can see timing and situation doesnt matter if youve got the lock. But why does the host of the show need to keep constantly remind that to the participants. You want the Grand Prix or should I take it myself?

Also, that vid was had more action in it that your previous blow the crap outta everything on the ground vids. You made things on the ground dead just as easlily as you're killin planes here... and atleast the planes get a chance to shoot back. I don't see how that's a big departure.

Mr Wargimp rushes to the defense with this argument. "A chance to shoot back" which unfortunately is invalid. Everyone has/had a chance to shoot back. What this video showed us however, that the chaser does not need to have the skills to keep himself constantly behind his target, only until the lock has been aquired. Once theres a positive lock, theres a launch and a kill. Ultimately that is the point.

it was way to easy to evade, all a good pilot could do to another good pilot is slowly take down thier health with the cannon, very slowly, a good pilot in 1.12 would never fly straight.

in 1.2 getting behind someone isnt all it takes, if the pilot thats in front has flares and enough altitude or obsticales, they can easily evade. i get hit by stray missiles more than anything else.

Its for Mr Roger to back his team up and make a final stand with this "scenario-argument". But oh...

Using more complex and advanced throttle control to maintain the distance between the fighters and keep the nose pointed at the target at all times- your scenario is useless. Flares prolongue your life expectancey, thats all.

in all honesty the pproblem isnt in the effectivness of a2a, its in the inability for jets to accelerate/decelerate fast, make high g manuvers, and blackout. the way jets are now though, id say just give them less of an arch. i would like to have to lead my target when firing missiles wheather from air or ground.

Actually it is. Giving a 1shot1hit weapon to an equipment that needs skills to handle isnt wise.


This concludes our show, as the host has no idea how to underline the point anymore.


Guys, youre forgetting one very important thing. Under the circumstances where the target has no flares- if the lock-on has been aquired, hes dead if the missiles are launched. Thats as simple as it gets. Now, anyone can shoot anyone down at any time with a higher chance than before regardless of ones skill level because the missiles do the whole work. If we use a pie as an example- a dogfight was a battle of maneuvers where people created opportunities to use their weapons. Since the opportunities werent occuring often, it often became a mind game, who gets exhausted first. Who ****s up first? Whos better?
Now, from the video, all you need is approach from behind, lock-on, slow down, track down, re lock-on and fire. Thats it. Planewhores video was not meant to show his UBER1337 skills in dogfighting, but rather to show how the missiles will do the work for him. The last kill with the *sigh* comment. THATS all it takes- throttle control, distance, and thats it.

You all were mistaken by a part where a F-35B seemingly made an escape from the missiles without the flares, fact is, DICE was kind enough to let a bug slip in where vertical acceleration and speed limit is unlimited- meaning. If you fly up, you can achieve great speeds (I remember I once just took a look- 2500 I think was the number I saw before 800 limit). So the impact took place AS SOON as the plane turned off the vertical climb where the missiles chased him down. BUT, as you could see, he shot another missile just in case, and you could easily see 3 earlier shot missiles still behind the plane.

The whole issue here is that dogfighting is NOT a battle of maneuvers, but a battle of first lock. Please, please dont tell me that this is how its done in real life. In real life... [insert all info about medics that is untrue in BF2].

Gentlemen, you are not being smart nor even funny if you say that it takes more skills to dogfight than it took before. I call it black BF2 humour. As a skill vs skill, player vs player game this has to rely on the skill level of individuals rather than advatages given by real life equipment.

What PW video showed us was 100% lethality by anyone behond anyone with an aquired lock. Lets keep it in the discussion limits, rather than telling he sucks in dogfighting. Him dying wouldnt prove anything, you just got yourself 1st front seats on HOW it looks like. If you want to know how it looks like from the targets POV, go find yourself a dogfighter and fly against him.

Personally Im tired of this, Im becoming more and more convinced that some choose to stay ignorant and shout out comments like "yah, well now it takes skills" "this is how it should be" "you n00b" "welcome to the infantry" and whatnot.

I dont see why I should give people credit for their kill now as I have always done. Its not like they deserved the kill. Not like they were in fact better than me. Not like they worked for their kill.


[EDIT] EL_Presidente you have presented a very valid point- DICE made the game (in skies) easier for new people to access. Wont argue that because it seems like a smart thing to do.