Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Chris,

Gameshow hosts are, on the whole, supposed to be unbiased and objective in their views...

I'm not sure where I stand on the A2A side of things, but in this thread some are bemoaning A2A, some AA, so much so that the thread's rife with cross-communication and misunderstanding. Valid points get lost in translation...

Over and out.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Mr Roger Smith from Groundland who just recently started to fly and couldnt achieve anything with the machine guns, hes eager to learn and kick some ass since AA released a new WMD- a 100% hitting A2A aimbot.

o so you went there, ok. http://bf2s.com/player/rogersmithbigo/

..... He also believes that dodging a missile that is going to hit you no matter what is also skills.

not so much getting a kill, as avoiding getting killed, which was easy to do before.

he also thinks that the helicopters should be an easy prey for the planes but like others he must be thinking that planes vs infantry should from now on take skills.

first off, helicopters already were easy pray for planes, thats just how it works. infantry can kill armor, why shouldnt they be able to kill jets aswell?

What Mr Smith REALLY thinks is that it SHOULDNT take such a skill level an experienced player has, to down a player with superior skill level like it is throughout the game.

a kickass soldier in bf2 can be killed by a lesser soldier, its part of battle, you cant live forevor.

[TokenBrit]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Excellent post Chris

[Roger Smith]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Under the circumstances where the target has no flares- if the lock-on has been aquired, hes dead if the missiles are launched. Thats as simple as it gets. Now, anyone can shoot anyone down at any time with a higher chance than before regardless of ones skill level because the missiles do the whole work.

all you had to do is hard turn in circles forevor and you were imortal pre patch, thats what you want though, obviously. its not like the cannon works in those situations either!

[Digital-Boy]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I loved the challenge of destroying helicopters with the vulcan cannons. OK, so it's not that hard, but it's certainly more fun than spamming AA missiles to destroy targets.

[Bob_the_Insane]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Well, I thought it was a great video and looked liked a skilled pilot (in this game) demostrating his obvious ability at this aspect of the game...

I would have though that a more valid indication of a serious problem with A2A would be if PW suddenly found himself gettting shot down all the time (as opposed to "a little more often than before")... Is that the case?

[TheGhost]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I dont see why I should give people credit for their kill now as I have always done. Its not like they deserved the kill. Not like they were in fact better than me. Not like they worked for their kill.

This is the biggest problem I have with the current air to air. Not only can I no longer really feel respect for anyone that shoots me down air to air, I can't really take any pride in my own kills. Before the patch I probably got shot down in air to air battles about once a week, usually because I got complacent and did something dumb like flying in to reload even when someone had a lock on me. Occasionally I would come across a good pilot and we would spend most of the round dog fighting having really good, even battles. When that happened it was a blast, and I could really respect them as an opponent. Making a nice move to get position and bring them down was a great feeling; and on the flip side, if they did it to me I would always throw them a compliment. After 1.2 this no longer happens.

To tell the truth, the patch hasn't really impacted my scores much. Now instead of being shot down once a week it's more like once or twice a round, although when it happens I usually just bail over the airfield before they get the killing shot and wait for my plane to come back. I still usually have a K/D ratio above 10 in most rounds. The problem is I don't ever give anyone a compliment for taking me down anymore. Bringing someone down in air to air combat proves nothing after the 1.2 patch, it just means you could point your plane in their general direction for long enough to get a lock. The whole "good pilots don't let people get on their tail" argument is complete BS, with the never-miss missles you don't even have to be behind someone anymore. As long as the missles have a lock they will hit from any angle.

The biggest dissappointment for me is the lack of satisfaction I get from my own kills. I know from experience what it took to bring someone down before the 1.2 patch and I know how much stupidly easier it is now. Before 1.2 even a rookie pilot could provide a sporting encounter if they were at least smart enough to not just fly in a straight line. Now no matter how good the other pilot is it's just point, lock, click; and it makes every kill I get feel cheapened. This is what Wargimp and the others like him just don't seem to understand. It seems to me that before the patch you either didn't fly, or you were just too bad at it to have a clue about what was involved in being good at air to air combat. Now it's been dumbed down to the point where any two year old can get some kills and you guys suddenly think you are ace pilots.

Bottom line, I will never respect anyone that shoots me down with air to air missles in 1.2, and I don't expect them to respect me when I do it to them either. No skill, no respect, no honor.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

all you had to do is hard turn in circles forevor and you were imortal pre patch, thats what you want though, obviously. its not like the cannon works in those situations either!

Actually. It only works for planes which have superior loop time, like J-10 vs all others. And fighters vs bombers. This "superb" evasion maneuver is a perfect target for machine gunning. But I see your point that the most effective maneuvers were the simpliest ones, HOWEVER, machine guns as the very simple weapon for the jet, worked rather effectively in those situations. If you had a plane that didnt fit into thst situation, it was the time for you to break off.

Chris,

Gameshow hosts are, on the whole, supposed to be unbiased and objective in their views...

LOL, Dr Jambo, Im just trying to be funny. If I came off lame, well, then I failed in humour :p . Truth is, Im tired of explaining other peoples thoughts to other people. I feel it being necessary, but I just fail at making them realise whats going on.


Mr Smith.

o so you went there, ok. http://bf2s.com/player/rogersmithbigo/

No no no no no. No need for that. I didnt check your stats. Your stats, in the end wont tell me how good of a player you are. Everything Ive written is based on your posts.

not so much getting a kill, as avoiding getting killed, which was easy to do before.

Now were getting somewhere. Thats how you see it.
Dogfights before were battles between players, where the player with more experience won. That player knew when to use which weapon, when to engage and when to disengage. However your scenario turns into player vs missiles as soon as the missiles are launched. Just as it shouldnt be "player vs bullets", it shouldnt be "player vs missiles".

first off, helicopters already were easy pray for planes, thats just how it works. infantry can kill armor, why shouldnt they be able to kill jets aswell?

As said, I think most are content with AA right now. The problem arises when 1 pass will turn a chopper into a wreck. However, if even 1 missile would have been used, that chopper wouldnt stand a chance, no matter what. (Well... flare spam exploit? LOL).

a kickass soldier in bf2 can be killed by a lesser soldier, its part of battle, you cant live forevor.

Agreed to a limit.
A kickass soldier usually kicks the **** out of a lesser kickass soldier and providing newbies with some fineass asskickery. This is what I mean when I talk "player vs player". Its ultimate ones skills and experience that gives him the edge. Often, the element of surprise and being outnumbered and whatnot 3rd factors come in play, but an asskicker will still kick ass more than a newbie.
As on ground, just the same happened in the air. A top notch pilot killed less experienced pilots. Theres no magic theres no surprise. Its how things happen.

EDIT: TheGhost, bravo.

[[FM]Master_Chief]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I'm no pilot by any means but you were flying against total noobs man. I'm not saying anything bad against your skills here, just that pilots on opposing team sucked. Every single one of them (except maybe one or two that actually got away at first trying to evade) was in a gentle turn from the time you started locking onto him til his plane explodes. Again, I'm not a good pilot but I know that you can't fly in the straight line or taking gentle curves and expect to survive. Get me a video of your kills when the opposing pilot is actually trying to evade you not just by taking a nice leisurely turn.

[{wxc}panda]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

99% of ground engagements are decided based on who saw who first. It's called initiative, and it ought to matter a lot.

short range - maybe,
mid/long range - not really, an inexperienced player would still lose even if he sees the oponent first.
and try not to mix game with reality, IRL technology plays a more important role in wars, it's the skills that should matter.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

if yall like dog fighting so much, maybe go back to 1942. jeez. ok here is the thing, before the patch aa was bugged, you survived so long because aa would fly up to you and the fly right past you. its still bugged, ill agree with that, and it needs to be changed. i think the problem with 1.2 missiles is that they turn to hard, the 1.12 missiles were fine, except they flew past you, when they should have hit you.

[Chalk.One]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I feel we have all come to the conclusion that Surface to air is fine..its air to air thats a joke now.

Surface to Air is fine?? I guess you should play some IronGator as MEC and watch your choppers get blown to bits by the Essex before they can get 3 feet off the ground. The only way we managed to get our helicopters in the air was by having an APC in the water constantly taking out the Essex's AA gun.

[flanker-f]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I've got two things to say:

One. Those on the video deserve to be shot down. And they wouldn't be alive any longer with 1.12. Experienced pilot doesn't let you have a lock or if he does, you can be sure six missiles fired rapidly are far from enough to take him down.

Two. If this patch doesn't change your thinking, forget about playing Battlefield 2. Now it's even more a suicide to fly low and circle around the enemy territory. So learn to fly against some pilots before complaining about air-to-air.

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I'm no pilot by any means but you were flying against total noobs man. I'm not saying anything bad against your skills here, just that pilots on opposing team sucked. Every single one of them (except maybe one or two that actually got away at first trying to evade) was in a gentle turn from the time you started locking onto him til his plane explodes. Again, I'm not a good pilot but I know that you can't fly in the straight line or taking gentle curves and expect to survive. Get me a video of your kills when the opposing pilot is actually trying to evade you not just by taking a nice leisurely turn.

Even if they had attempted to evade, PlaneWhore was far enough back that he could adjust his airspeed to stay inside their jet trails.

[TheGhost]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I would have though that a more valid indication of a serious problem with A2A would be if PW suddenly found himself gettting shot down all the time (as opposed to "a little more often than before")... Is that the case?

The point is that even for someone that really doesn't die any more than they used to, it still takes all the fun out of their own air to air kills. Imagine that you really love bowling, all you want to do is bowl. You spend a lot of time bowling and you get really good at it. You join a league and you do really good in it, better than most everyone but there's a few people at your skill level that give you a challenge and it's a lot of fun to go against them.

One day the league decides that they are now going to use a new format, and from now on it will be bumper bowling. Now, you are a very good bowler and overall this isn't going to make much impact on your game. You will still be better than nearly everyone in the league, but by dumbing down and simplifying the system it cheapens the whole experience. Further, you could have a situation where you are against one of the other good bowlers, and it comes down to one of you winning because one of you converts a spare on a 10 pin that before the bumpers would have ended up in the gutter, in that situation both the winner and loser feel that the win was cheap and it degrades the competition for both.

Some people say that the bowlers just need to adapt to the new system *cough*Wargimp*cough*. Any real competitor would be happy to adapt to a new system if it meant it was more challenging, but when the new system is a dumbed down training wheels version it removes the elements that made it an exciting competition in the first place.