Air combat is so much fun!

[unununium]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

He doesn't. Good pilots still rule the waves in 1.2. Most of the jet experts are still doing 50-1 in servers. However, at least with 1.2 they are sometimes susceptible. In real war no one can guarantee anything based on skill alone. Mistakes will more likely be punished and without enemy jets being spotted by teammates or commanders there's always a slim chance that a less skilled pilot will get that lucky lock-on. Luck is always a factor I'm afraid - it's good for the game and keeps things fresh.

Agreed. Good pilots will still shake me really quickly, and I can shake pilots that aren't as good as me. The difference is that I actually want to fly now because I have a much better chance to kill the good pilots.

[flanker-f]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

I agree - Air combat is so much fun!

I dont know why, but i haven't seen a single pilot capable to shoot me down in a fighter after 1.2. Yes I have been shot down but because of my own mistake, not because of the skills of the opposing pilot. This patch made A2A an art. Experinced pilot can still rule the battlefield, but he can't remain untouched. He will take hits, which slow him down a little and keep him careful. 1.2 didn't change my tactics. I still prefer ground targets, AA is still crappy and harmless, i still shoot the enemy down before he can realise he has a lock-on, cannons do even more damage, and i've had to find new ways to dodge missiles.

And do not rely on your missiles too much. They can bring your enemy down at a distance, but i still prefer surprise as my tactic. And if you spam all the missiles at a pro pilot, you can be sure he won't let you do that again...

The only problem now are the stray missiles. Basicly you can't spam them or you'll get teamkills. On the other hand, spamming them above enemy airfield will give you several kills for sure. My first post here btw. And excuse my English. It might or might not be very good...

[UnrealAlex]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

The new A2A is a joke. Before A2A was mostly gunning, and thats the way it should be. Because gunning is not easy, it required actual skill in flying and manuvering. Now, Not being able to avoid a missile launched by novice pilot and getting killed when you have over 60 hours is a total joke. Come on, its ridiculous. People who crash into trees when flying now can easily take out pilots with a lot of flying time.

I understand the AA on the ground, and I agree its fine and thats the way it should be, deadly but avoidable. A2A however, is a total joke.

[WarGimp]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

The new A2A is a joke. Before A2A was mostly gunning, and thats the way it should be. Because gunning is not easy, it required actual skill in flying and manuvering. Now, Not being able to miss a missile launched by novice pilot and getting killed when you have over 60 hours is a total joke.

Sorry man, I gotta disagree with ya.

The Air to air is now a hella lot more like actual moderns air combat, rather than something from a George Lucas flick. There's a ton of skill involved. Now you have to be able to shake 'n evade an opponent in seconds. You have to be aware of the realities of air combat manuvers, rather than just doing a simple roll 'n dive to lose him. The intensity has been ramped WAY up.

If people are thinking that it's nooblet friendly, they aren't doing it right. The skill in flying has been changed from "who's got the best frame rates and twitch skills" to having to think about tactical manuvers.

The basic rule of modern air to air is that if he manages to get tone on you and you don't have counter measures, you screwed up... and yer gonna die for it.

For the first time every in BF2, I was able to apply my knowlage to real modern air combat... and I didn't get myself owned by either noobs or vets.


The skills migrated from your reflexes to your brains.

[UnrealAlex]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

I still think its too novice friendly. Basicaly what you're saying if you've got a plane behind you you're dead. And that is, how it is right now in game. It shouldnt be like that.

And its far from realistic modern air combat. The distances are way too close to be considered as modern realistic air combat.

[WarGimp]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

No, I'm not saying that if someone gets behind you it's an auto kill.
You have your flares, right? That gives you a second or 2 to break and get the hell outta there. You have to be GOOD to survive, tho.

I've had some very good fights so-far. I've seen pilots make great breaks while I'm on their 6, I've seen some classic manuevers going on, I've managed to clear my own tail, and yes, I've been shot down before I've had time to react.

The big problem that so many elite pilots are having right now is adjusting to the fact that air to air mechanics have effectivly changed from WWII to modern dynamics. And continually refusing to accept this change will ensure that they never improve.

And yeah, I'm aware the the scale of BF2 is radicly reduced as compaired to the realworld. With that in mind, you need to be aware that with this scale reduction comes changes in acceptable firing angles. You can pull off a much tighter shot in BF2 than you could in a serious flightsim, but the basic rules still apply.

I suggest checkin this out: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~fta/acmintro.htm#Menu
Everything ya need ta know is in there.

[Indyxc]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Sorry man, I gotta disagree with ya.

The Air to air is now a hella lot more like actual moderns air combat, rather than something from a George Lucas flick. There's a ton of skill involved. Now you have to be able to shake 'n evade an opponent in seconds. You have to be aware of the realities of air combat manuvers, rather than just doing a simple roll 'n dive to lose him. The intensity has been ramped WAY up.

If people are thinking that it's nooblet friendly, they aren't doing it right. The skill in flying has been changed from "who's got the best frame rates and twitch skills" to having to think about tactical manuvers.

The basic rule of modern air to air is that if he manages to get tone on you and you don't have counter measures, you screwed up... and yer gonna die for it.

For the first time every in BF2, I was able to apply my knowlage to real modern air combat... and I didn't get myself owned by either noobs or vets.


The skills migrated from your reflexes to your brains.

What's are you kidding?

Who's got the best frame rate and tweaking skills to who's got the best manuevering ability? Are you kidding? I agree it's more like modern air combat with accurate Air to Air missles, but now the Air to Air missles are for noobs.

Before the patch, you could easily tell a good pilot from a bad. If you had a guy following you with constant lock, you knew it was a noob. The first sign of a good pilot, was you would take a full round of cannons.

Now it's whoever gets their missles off first. Doesn't matter if they are shot at an unrealistic angle, or distance. It's gonna hit you.

Shake and evade?
You meet drop flares and hope for the best? Lol. If you think you're evading the new missles, you are lying to yourself. It's simply the missles bugged up and decided not to hit you.

The only option I see with the new missles right now, is drop flares, and cover. Or just plane cover. If you are high in the sky, with missles headed at you, from what I can tell you don't have much hope.

[unununium]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Now it's whoever gets their missles off first. Doesn't matter if they are shot at an unrealistic angle, or distance. It's gonna hit you.

I hear that. I've had someone missile me when we were flying parallel and they were UNDERNEATH me. Needless to say there was much desk kicking and screaming of obscenities as my flaming husk of a former aircraft fell to the ground.

[DogFish]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

You dont even have to have a lock with the current missles you can just fire blind,also the missles redirect off the flares so saving your flares doesnt mean your free.

Wargimp, were trying to say its way to easy,sure there is a slight skill in staying at max alt and using your views to max potential to spot other planes...Unfortunately the plane really doesnt even have to be near your six to be locked on.Also receiving locks from friendly missles or just spontaneous "Missles on Crack",doesnt allow you to just guess if theres a missle coming,so you dump your flares that may or may not work....Now your fecked if anything else happens unless you just have a magic escape that the bugs allow for....These missles are a joke and stupid looking,sure Im all for improved a2a missles but these arent nearly acceptable.There are no mistakes I make and I played BF series and flight sims for years,I have the new track IR4 and even if I could use it in BF2 it would be of no help against the dumbLUCK missles we have now.

If you wish to discuss it further just let me know your ingame name what server is your favorite and Ill come show you

[UnrealAlex]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Yea thats another point. Ive flown a bit in 1.2 now, and even with flares, the new a2a missiles sometimes still hit you.

[TheGhost]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Wargimp and {WP}Paas, I've seen enough of your post 1.2 comments to realize that I could beat you both over the head for eternity with logical and factual arguments without changing your opinions. You both love hiding behind this "modern air combat" argument, but neither of you have a clue what that even means. There's a lot more involved in modern air combat than simply pointing the nose of your plane in the vague vicinity of an enemy aircraft for 2 or 3 seconds before letting loose a barage of missles that are nearly guaranteed to hit their mark no matter the situation.

Like the guy I quoted in my sig, the only skill either of you have in the air came courtesy of DICE and their noob* friendly patch.




*I really hate using the term "noob", but in this case I really couldn't think of anything more appropriate.

[WarGimp]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Yea thats another point. Ive flown a bit in 1.2 now, and even with flares, the new a2a missiles sometimes still hit you.

That's actually fairly realistic too.

Think about what flares actually do.
The change the single target that the missile is tracking into several. The missile has to deside which target it's going to go for. How many acutal flares drop when you hit X? Umm... I think it's 6, but haven't stopped to count (yet). Assuming I'm correct (and feel free to correct that number), this means that dropping flares only gives you aproximatly a 70% chance that a missile will lose lock.

Even if it does lose it's lock, it only gives you scant seconds of survivability. You'd best know what to do with those seconds. Learning to drop and break is your best defensive tactic. I've had quite a bit of success with doing fairly simple climb and roll manuevers (or dive and break if you've got enough altitude).

Point is, there are things you can do. Ya just need to know what those things are. Applied knowlage and understanding being important makes me .

[Twisted-]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

The ground AA changes don't bother me and i think they are fair, but the A2A is a joke. I don't care if it's "modern combat" today i was able to go 63-2 using the f-15 mainly going against air targets on a map with the J-10. It eliminates the point of the fighters altogether now if a bomber can do the same job as the fighter and still bomb ground targets.

If it really was modern combat the pilot with 14 hours wouldn't have a chance against the pilot with 100 hours, much like before the patch. I've shot missiles at planes and seen them go passed the plane, then turn around and hit the plane from the front. If thats modern combat then airforces around the world may be doomed.

I've found air combat far more boring and easy now compared to before the patch, now it's just lock on fire and you get the kills. Before the patch you actually had to work hard for your air to air kills against experienced pilots.

[{wxc}panda]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

You bought a joystick to play an "Arcade" game? Expecting it to make a major difference?

I could see if you were playing a flight simulator, but, jesus... it's BF2.

{WP}Paas

a joystick wont make a MAJOR difference in flying a jet. It will make it easier to make certain movements if u know how to make them. It will give pilots more dexterity than with mouse without having to sacrifice shooting accuracy. and so on..
Do not draw a conclusion based on ur assumption.

[Paas]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Wargimp and {WP}Paas, I've seen enough of your post 1.2 comments to realize that I could beat you both over the head for eternity with logical and factual arguments without changing your opinions.

...shoot. Sadly though, realism has not place in BF2. It's simply not there. So, in basing any debat (short of an opinion, or guess) off of realism is pointless.

Also. Wargimp sites "modern air combat" as a basis for some of this claims. I don't. I'm usually the one relying on my actually knowledge of small arms to argue in that arena. You're kinda' bunching us into the same family just because we like the patch. Bad move...

Especially considering that all you have here is a general flame with no propane behind it. If you claim to have these "logical and factual arguments" under your belt, by all means, bring them out. Don't leave me hanging with suspense...

{WP}Paas