Air combat is so much fun!

[Paas]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

a joystick wont make a MAJOR difference in flying a jet. It will make it easier to make certain movements if u know how to make them. It will give pilots more dexterity than with mouse without having to sacrifice shooting accuracy. and so on..
Do not draw a conclusion based on ur assumption.

I own a Joystick. I fly better with the mouse. Which would make it an opinion, not an assumption.

...never mind. Whatever you say man. My bad for typing my stand on it.

{WP}Paas

[DrJambo]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

I'm with the Wargimp here.

The whole idea that 1.2 is friendly to "noob" pilots is preposterous. Let's face it, the improvements to the ground AA alone are enough to deter all but the better skilled pilots - there aren't going to be many successful "Noobs" up in the air right now!!

Strikes me that where previously some pilots have been used to death-free round upon death-free round, they're now getting killed every now and then and the immediate reaction seems to be to cry "noob"!

If the new patch is supposed to be so unfriendly or indeed "unfair" (lol) to pilots, then how come there's all of a sudden all these "Noobs" up in the air killing all these supposed pro-pilots?? I think if we got some real pros in here they'd verify that not much has changed at all.

Shall I reiterate again? (sigh)

Improve you teamwork by knowing the whereabouts of the enemy jets via commander or team spotting and you'll not have any problems.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

DrJambo

Well this is something that's now of more importance in 1.2. Like good tank players or squad leaders, good pilots should be using VOIP to encourage their teammates to spot jets, choppers and whatever else.

True. But I laugh at the times when I flew and asked my squad to spot jets for me and they spotted snipers.


Realism shouldnt have the upper hand in a player vs player game where skills matter the most. I could have a lockon on most of the pilots for a decent long time. In fact, DONT state that n00b pilots only keep a lockon. I kept the lockon to drain the OpFor from his afterburners so I could open a missile launch window. I usually drained them empty, chasing them with a lock. Its all a matter of speed differences. But now- if a MiG is chasing a F35B and both fly as I remember them flying, MiG has no worries in keeping a decently long lock on the JFS. Its just so slow that the F35B cuts off with his ~1300~1400 MPH leaving the MiG behind observing the manuevers and keeping its nose on the JFS AT ALL TIMES. Now, when earlier, lock on didnt result in a kill, imagine what would happen now...


PAAS

I own a Joystick. I fly better with the mouse. Which would make it an opinion, not an assumption.

...never mind. Whatever you say man. My bad for typing my stand on it.

{WP}Paas

Mouse owns joysticks when were talking about ground gunning. At least compared to my joystick I did it better with a mouse.

[WarGimp]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Also. Wargimp sites "modern air combat" as a basis for some of this claims. I don't. I'm usually the one relying on my actually knowledge of small arms to argue in that arena. You're kinda' bunching us into the same family just because we like the patch. Bad move...

Actually, he's miss-understood my point as well.

I'm not saying that BF2's air combat is realistic or that BF2 has anything to do with realism. I'm saying that it now contains some elements of realistic air combat that if properly understood, can help ya out.

I'm a big fan of designing games that push the focus towards fun, rather than making them mundane by resticting them to simulations. The addition of air combat that feels a bit more like modern day makes it more fun TO ME.

[{wxc}panda]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

I own a Joystick. I fly better with the mouse. Which would make it an opinion, not an assumption.

...never mind. Whatever you say man. My bad for typing my stand on it.

{WP}Paas

so does one of my clan mates. He owns a joystick but he got used to mouse-flying. He can usually get the gold medal for the round if he flies a jet. but it doesn't stop lots of top players being even better with their joysticks.
I can list a few things that joystick is better at than mouse:
1. u pull up faster when ur taking off from airstrip
2. u dont have to move ur mouse on the mouse pad like crazy to simple movements like barrel rolls and so on
3. Throttle control gives a faster acceleration/deceleration
need to say more?

[DrJambo]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Just as an aside - I found it equally frustrating in 1.12 that when I managed to manoeuvre myself into a great position behind a J-10 and obtain lock, all the J-10 pilot had to do was a simple high speed turn to escape the missiles.

In fact I'd argue that 1.12 was too easy to escape and in essence there was nothing pro about evading missiles full stop! No sophisticated manoeuvres, no using terrain - just a simple afterburner turn was all that was needed.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

Just as an aside - I found it equally frustrating in 1.12 that when I managed to manoeuvre myself into a great position behind a J-10 and obtain lock, all the J-10 pilot had to do was a simple high speed turn to escape the missiles.

In fact I'd argue that 1.12 was too easy to escape and in essence there was nothing pro about evading missiles full stop! No sophisticated manoeuvres, no using terrain - just a simple afterburner turn was all that was needed.

I agree. I noticed that a long time ago and started working on my throttle control to drain the OpFor out from his afterburner. It takes a beating for people to start learning. Most just prefer to whine.

[DrJambo]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

But because it was so easy to avoid missiles with a simple banking turn, all A2A combat eventually resorted to cannons.... ad nauseum...

Only the idiotic "fly straight and don't deviate" pilots were susceptible to missiles.

At least now missiles have a purpose.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

But because it was so easy to avoid missiles with a simple banking turn, all A2A combat eventually resorted to cannons.... ad nauseum...

Only the idiotic "fly straight and don't deviate" pilots were susceptible to missiles.

At least now missiles have a purpose.

I disagree. The pilots my missiles hit were simply out of afterburners and they made a critical mistake- changing the turn. Then they got hit, they exploded and I got a kill. Usually I had to work hard to get there but I quickly discarded cannons as my primary because missiles were so much better to use after I learned how to use them. Cannons still worked wonders in susprise attacks.

[TheGhost]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

...shoot. Sadly though, realism has not place in BF2. It's simply not there. So, in basing any debat (short of an opinion, or guess) off of realism is pointless.

Which is what I have been saying. This is exactly why saying that the patch makes it more realistic (which isn't true) is a bunk argument.

Also. Wargimp sites "modern air combat" as a basis for some of this claims. I don't.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you would know better than I what your opinion is, however you did start a response in this thread with "I prefer the dogfighting as it is now, it's a game of "Lock" not aiming." I took that to be along the same lines as the so called "real modern air combat, lock means kill" argument.

Especially considering that all you have here is a general flame with no propane behind it.

I used up all my propane writing this the other day: http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...s+past+present

Short version, I like the current surface to air dynamic, but IMO there were better ways to get the same result. Air to air on the other hand is currently a joke no matter how you look at it. All you have to do is look at any of the multiple videos people have posted of the completely retarded missle behavior to know that. Anyone that still wants to argue for how great the system is now after watching those videos is either full of sh*t or so ignorant that they are beyond help.

[Dilla_Incognito]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

So often, we are seeing those 'wonder' bombs on TV, now every plane has them (laser guided, GPS guided, who knows what guided…). So why are we still using these WW2 like bombs?
In modern air combat, weapons are so advanced, pilots have only to take decisions and high tech does the rest. I would love to see this 'fire and forget' bombs on our battlefield.

glad there's another peson enjoying/still enjoying flying in BF2

but about the smart bomb prospect, that would be in a bomber...and yes the super hornet (flyable as the alternate for the Strike Eagle for USMC) is meant to be a fighter bomber...your average fighter plane in use these days equipped for aerial combat with cap. to bomb, will use good old fashioned "drop it when your over it" bombs

[TheGhost]

Re: Air combat is so much fun!

I'm not saying that BF2's air combat is realistic or that BF2 has anything to do with realism. I'm saying that it now contains some elements of realistic air combat that if properly understood, can help ya out.

There are very few elements of modern air combat in BF2, that we can agree on. You are wrong in saying that "it now" contains those elements, as if it was only since the patch that they existed. The patch actually weakened what elements were already there.

Before the patch you had to pay attention to things like angle of attack, and setting your self up to get into position to get and stay behind an enemy for long enough to cannon him down. Sure, the cannons don't fit with modern air combat, but the maneuvering sort of did. Now all you have to do is have an enemy plane somewhere in front of you for long enough to get a lock, it doesn't matter what direction he is traveling, what direction you are traveling, or anything else. All you need is to get the lock, and the missle will do the rest even if it has to turn around and fly directly behind you because you just flew past the other guy as you fired.

I'm a big fan of designing games that push the focus towards fun, rather than making them mundane by resticting them to simulations. The addition of air combat that feels a bit more like modern day makes it more fun TO ME.

I'm calling BS. You can say whatever you want, but I think what really makes it fun for you is that you can now get a kill against enemy planes here and there with surefire missles that take no skill to use. If I hadn't had any skill in the planes before the 1.2 patch I would probably feel the same way. For me though the patch has made air to air mind numbingly stupid. Pre patch even an inexperienced pilot could give you some challenge if he was twisting and turning to avoid your machine guns, but now it takes all of about 5 seconds to drop in behind him and blow him out of the sky. No effort, no skill, no honor.